Faced with multiple existential threats in the coming decades, professor of religion Timothy Beal reflects on the possibility of human extinction and what hope might look like within that context. Timothy challenges the notion of perpetual optimism, advocating instead for a deeper, more grounded form of hope. Through insights from indigenous spirituality and palliative care principles, he explores how communities can confront grief, engage in meaningful action, and rediscover their earthly connection in the face of an uncertain future.

Following the interview Tim and Nick discuss their growing concerns about the state of the world, how that’s impacting them emotionally, and how they understand hope.

Interview starts at 18m 24s

Image used with permission

BOOKS

When Time Is Short: Finding Our Way in the Anthropocene

The Rise and Fall of the Bible: The Unexpected History of an Accidental Book

The Book of Revelation: A Biography

Biblical Literacy: The Essential Bible Stories Everyone Needs to Know

BOOKS MENTIONED

Emergent Strategy: Shaping Change, Changing Worlds

Overshoot: The Ecological Basis of Revolutionary Change

The Body of God: An Ecological Theology

Being Mortal: Illness, Medicine and What Matters in the End

QUOTES

“I think we need to compost Christian tradition in order to let a kind of earth creatureliness emerge from it in a more profound, greener way.”

“What’s different about the sixth extinction – about the one that we’re in – is that it’s the first that is human-caused.”

“I think we need to compost Christian tradition in order to let a kind of earth creatureliness emerge from it in a more profound, greener way.”“We need to extract more and more [because] there’s not enough locally. And so we go and we extract life and labour and land and so on from around the world to continue to drive this religion of human exceptionalism.”

“I think that we can draw some design cues from palliative care for finding hope on what might be a finite human future.”

In this Easter devotional podcast, Vanessa Chamberlin reflects on biblical narratives and personal mystical experiences as she navigates the intersection of theology, art, and ecological consciousness.

Following Vanessa’s reflection, Anna Robinson creates a contemplative space for us to more deeply reflect on and experience this spirituality of the land.

All this is beautifully woven together with the [on location] music of Jon Bilbrough, known musically as Wilderthorn.

Vanessa’s reflection begins at 5m 52s.

Image used with permission

WEBSITES

Vanessa Chamberlin Art

Vanessa Chamberlin Spiritual Direction

Anna Robinson

Wilderthorn

QUOTES

“I’m not trying to paint landscape – I’m not trying to paint things that look like the thing I’m looking at – I’m trying to train myself to respond to land in paint, by which I mean bringing the whole of myself: my body, my feelings, my imagination, my mind, my spirit.”

“I often feel like in those moments where you think something really new has just happened you actually realize that life has been leading up to that point for a while.”

“If women’s voices that are aware of knowledge residing and being rooted in different parts of them – and their body is one of them – are making space in the Jewish-Christian theological tradition, that is exciting.”

You do not have to be good.
You do not have to walk on your knees
for a hundred miles through the desert repenting.
You only have to let the soft animal of your body
love what it loves.

– Mary Oliver

In the dusky twilight of Alaska, my faith grew in the arms of my father’s faith. I remember the ritual of the words we said every night, Now I lay me/down to sleep/I pray the Lord/my soul to keep, the brightly colored illustrations inside the blue Bible story books, and the tales of angels intervening in everyday life. Childhood was full of comfort and peace and magic. I loved going to church and I was a true believer in every sense of the word. I tried to do everything right, to be a wise child, to love God, to be good and to obey my parents.

Image used with permission.

Fast forward to middle and high school: we had moved to Oregon in the beautiful Pacific Northwest. I was home-schooled before attending a private Christian school beginning at age 13. I really credit Christian school with helping me to be more accepting of different forms of spirituality. I had classmates from very charismatic churches, more mainline denominations, Quakers, and Mennonites. I had some intense spiritual experiences during worship times and at youth retreats that were very positive.
One of the downsides of this time is that my parents and church community were saturated in purity culture; my family was enamored with Bill Gothard’s teaching through the Institute of Basic Life Principles. The more rigid, high control group teachings influenced me in a negative way and made my experience of Christianity more complicated.

My deconstruction journey really started in my early thirties after getting married young and having four children. My husband and I had been very involved in the Nazarene church, a denomination born out of the holiness/Wesleyan movements. We had led small groups and taught Sunday school, he was on the church board and I had been on the church worship team. Our children were attending a Christian and home-school hybrid school and I was in a Christian moms group at the school. A book was given to me by a prayer partner called Prayer by Richard Foster, a Quaker. I started incorporating meditation into my prayer life. I had done yoga since my early twenties and prayerful meditation felt so right. Those were beautiful times. I was reading all the Christian mystics and getting so much comfort and joy out of their words and experiences. Meanwhile at our church, I was encouraged to read some books by NT Wright and found Nomad through one of his interviews.

I kept reading, I kept meditating, I kept listening to Nomad. I found a group of fellow heretics at a United Methodist Church where we read Nadia Bolz Weber, Rachel Held Evans and Richard Rohr. After years of practicing lent, I did the decentering practice Atheism for Lent through Peter Rollins and it was life changing. It gave me this very real break from all of the trappings of Christianity. I now held my beliefs much more lightly than before.

This last year, I went through a life altering experience. During most of my adult life, I had dealt with periods of depression. Mental illness runs in my family, so I was very proactive in getting help. I had done a lot of therapy and had been on an antidepressant for several years. But this last spring, a few stressors converged at the same time and I began to act erratically. At 43, I was diagnosed with Bipolar after having a psychotic break which included hallucinations and delusions. Some of my delusions had religious features, but I was in control enough at the time to keep some of my delusions to myself, so no one really knew…

I was hospitalized for three weeks. I was very weak when I was discharged and my life was in shambles. I couldn’t function and I spent the better part of three months being cared for by my father at the family farm. Although the realities of living with a diagnosis like this have been jarringly difficult to accept, I’ve started to feel more at peace with my spirituality again. I’m so thankful for modern psychiatry, the medications that I am on, as well as individual and group therapy that keep my mood within normal bounds and me out of the hospital. Ten years ago, I would have thought I was demon possessed and I would have sought a spiritual explanation for my delusions, hallucinatory experiences and the behavior that followed. I am so thankful that my faith has changed.

I’ve always been a very spiritual person and I’ve missed that part of myself over the last few months. It was hard for me to open up spiritually again after such a dramatic experience. I’ve always enjoyed reading about, discussing, and participating in the Christian faith. I’m cultivating that part of my life more purposefully again. I’ve started listening to a daily Bible devotional before bed called Lectio 365. I’ve also allowed myself to explore different forms of spirituality and found comfort in yoga, hikes, sound baths, singing in a choir, meditation, dance, and massage. It has started to come back slowly, in little spurts, rather than a steady stream.

Sometimes I wonder if maybe the way my brain is wired has affected my spiritual life. I am almost certain that it has. I have an openness to new experiences and an evolving faith that may come not just from my personality, but from my disorder. Would I change it? No, because I have led a rich and full spiritual life so far and I look forward to more of the journey.

– Alissa Rose

Theologian Selina Stone joins us to share her experience of growing up in a black Pentecostal church, the questions and doubts she wrestled with, and the answers she found in womanist theology.

Among other things, Selina reflects on the limitations of traditional theology, the role of spirituality in fostering well-being, her evolving relationship with the Bible, and why she now no longer regularly attends church.

Following the interview Tim and Anna reflect on their own evolving faith journey, and ponder what role womanism might play in it.

Interview starts at 16m 39s

Image used with permission

WEBSITE

Selina Stone

BOOK

Tarry Awhile: Wisdom from Black Spirituality for People of Faith

BOOKS MENTIONED IN INTERVIEW

Sisters in the Wilderness – Delores Williams

Making a Way Out of No Way – Monica Coleman

Battered Love – Renita Weems

Womanist Midrash – Wilda Gafney

QUOTES

“Womanism is borne out of this desire to centre Black women’s experiences of the bible, of theology, of the church and of the world in order to make sure that we’re paying attention to the intersecting ways that injustice actually works in the world.”

“Abstract questions that we will never resolve are seen as the important, essential work whereas these questions that are affecting us every single day are seen as secondary and unimportant.”

“Black women recognize Jesus as somebody who is familiar with what it is to be brutalised by unjust systems, somebody who knows what it is like to be betrayed by those who you trust, somebody who knows what it is to live in a body that is despised and treated with disregard and disrespect.”

“There are surely many ‘Hagars’ among us who have experienced what it is to be treated as collateral damage by people who are pursuing what they believe God has called them to – whatever the cost.”

When I left the UK in 1987, as a 21-year-old atheist, to hitch-hike around America for the second time, I was in search of ‘truth’: on the one hand envisaging finding it by meditating on a mountaintop, on the other hand not really believing ‘truth’ existed.

I’d previously run away twice, including ‘eloping’ with a girlfriend to the US when I was 19, fleeing an unhappy home situation on the spur of the moment, without telling anyone (apart from one friend) we were going.

Image used with permission.

This time, though, the escape was on my own and more planned, with money saved by selling cannabis and working. I’d sold or given away all my possessions except what was on my back, with a plan to spend the rest of my life homeless on the road and streets of, first, America, then the world.

The last thing I expected was to find Christian faith, but in retrospect a spiritual transformation had silently started 18 months earlier when reading the Sermon on the Mount had blown me away, especially Jesus’ words about forgiving enemies and not worrying about tomorrow.

My conversion was quite remarkable – not, as it turns out, as a result of meditating on a mountain nor through attending church, but through conversations with Christians and others and through a growing sense of “Someone up there looking after me” when I was out there on the road.

There was such a change inside me that my need for an itinerant life was replaced by a call to return to England and use what I’d been given to serve others. So, after 6 months and 15,000 miles of hitch-hiking, I did just that. I entered a career in nursing in 1989, and since 2004 I’ve been delivering healthcare to people experiencing homelessness and complex needs.

Within two years of returning to the UK in the late ‘80s, I was swept up into the world of charismatic evangelicalism. I say ‘swept up’ – maybe that’s unfair, I don’t know, but the appeal of a meditative approach to faith never left me, somewhere in my introvert personality. And I don’t know if I was ever that comfortable with the dogmatism that marked evangelical Christianity – even though for years I was quite a zealous evangelist!

I also tend to think that working with vulnerable and traumatised people changes you. I’m not sure it’s really possible for anyone with a deep sense of compassion and empathy to retain any sort of religious certainty in the face of so much suffering.

So, in more recent years, as the rise of the internet gave collective and connective voice to doubts and questions that some of us never previously dared breathe, a new sense of authentic spirituality arose from within me. This didn’t come without cost, though. Blogging my increasingly ‘progressive’ and inclusive thoughts on faith led to conflict with the leaders of the strongly evangelical Anglican church my family and I were attending, and the vicar then suggesting that we find another church. He didn’t seem to be able to cope with his congregation not all subscribing to his particular brand of Christianity.

I’ve always felt very fortunate to have found faith outside of church from the very beginning and, in fact, almost all my significant spiritual moments have taken place in solitude, so my faith has never been particularly dependent on church or leaders. However, this was a deeply hurtful experience for me and my wife, and probably served to drive me even further from evangelicalism.

We found a home in another Anglican church (part of the HTB network), which is incredibly accepting of theological and other differences, and I love its heart. My own attendance has become quite sporadic, though, for a number of reasons.

Although I still retain a broadly Christian faith, I describe it as very woolly! I feel disconnected from the modern evangelical style of worship at our church and I joke (not joke) with people that I love everything about the church except the services!

Also, workplace stress over the last few years has heightened my need for quiet, contemplative solitude. I’ve become more and more susceptible to sensory overload in loud, busy places and no longer cope well with a noisy, bustling church environment.

So, my Sunday mornings are often spent in quiet prayer and contemplation, or going for a run – or even listening to a Nomad podcast!

In tandem with this, my love of nature has become increasingly entwined with my faith and spirituality. A reflective nature walk in solitude is my idea of bliss. My blog, Spirit of Nature, combines four of my loves: nature, nature photography, contemplative prayer, and writing, so the blog is my perfect cathartic outlet.

In 2017 I published Coming Home for Good, an autobiographical book exploring homelessness, identity, addiction, faith and spirituality. I finished it when my faith was still in a significant pace of transition, so (disclaimer) there are aspects of the book that I would write very differently now. However, the book remains my proudest writing achievement.

In keeping with the importance of nature in my life, I describe my faith in terms of ‘evolution’ rather than ‘deconstruction’, seeing its movement forward as a natural progression.

Paradoxically, though, moving away from evangelical traditions to a more inclusive and meditative faith feels like coming back to who I was at the start of my spiritual journey – an authentic expression of my innate personality.

At the same time as feeling at home in contemplation, silence and mystery, the call to follow the person and teachings of Christ hasn’t left me, and my attempt to integrate these two facets of my faith remains a work in progress.

– Roger Nuttall

Therapist and author Mark Karris joins us to discuss religious trauma and the path to healing. Drawing on his own personal experiences and professional insights as a therapist, Mark reflects on oppressive religious beliefs, in particular the doctrine of Hell, original sin, and the image of a wrathful God, and the harm this can cause us. Mark then shares therapeutic tools that can help us on the journey to healing.

After the interview Tim and Joy reflect on the impact the doctrines of a wrath God, a sinful self, and Hell has had on them, and how they’ve tried to work through that.

Interview starts at 14m 29s

Image used with permission.

WEBSITE

Mark Karris

BOOKS

Divine Echoes: Reconciling Prayer With the Uncontrolling Love of God

Religious Refugees: (De)Constructing Toward Spiritual and Emotional Healing

The Diabolical Trinity: Healing Religious Trauma from a Wrathful God, Tormenting Hell, and a Sinful Self

QUOTES

“Religious beliefs in and of themselves can and do cause considerable harm that manifests as trauma after the fact. Indoctrinated beliefs can be traumatizing, and religious beliefs carry tremendous power to either heal or harm.”

“Self-compassion can be thought of as responding to yourself in the midst of struggle as you would a dear friend.”

“To the degree that we’re living our values – and really being congruent – is the degree that we’re living a life of vitality.”

Poet and author Cole Arthur Riley joins us to talk about her desire for a spirituality that was more human and a more liberating expression of faith. This journey led to the emergence of Black Liturgies. From prayers and poetry to breath practices and ancestral writings, this digital project explores spirituality that embraces embodiment, lament, rage and rest. And draws deeply from both contemplation and activism.

Following the interview Tim and Anna reflect on their own evolving faith journey, and ponder what role embodiment, lament, rage and rest might play in it.

Interview starts at 13m 53s

Image used with permission

WEBSITE

Cole Arthur Riley

BOOKS

Black Liturgies: Prayers, Poems and Meditations for Staying Human

This Here Flesh: Spirituality, Liberation and the Stories That Make Us

QUOTES

“I don’t want to think about a God who’s only interested in what we can do for them. That’s very scary to me.”

“Sometimes I find Christ very intimidating, but mostly I find it comforting to know that this divine incarnation was willing to toss temple tables without explaining himself, without trying to make everyone else in the temple feel better.”

“I find hope in remembering that there are people that came before us that endured a lot of the same suffering and sorrow and confusion and uncertainty, and they found a way to survive.”

In this podcast theologian and author Bethany Sollereder explores the complex intersection of animal suffering, the evolutionary process and divine love. She reflects on God’s role in the face of suffering, the possibility of redemption for non-human animals, and creation’s journey towards love and maturity. It’s a fascinating conversation about theology, evolution, and the ultimate purpose of creation.

After the interview Tim and Joy ponder their relationship with non-human animals and how that has shape their evolving faith.

Interview starts at 15m 57s

Image used with permission.

NOMAD FUNDRAISER

gofundme

BOOKS

God, Evolution, and Animal Suffering: Theodicy without a Fall

Why Is There Suffering?: Pick Your Own Theological Expedition

QUOTES

“The world isn’t fallen; it’s immature.”

“I think God delights in every creature who lives for however briefly.”
“God created a process in which creatures can create themselves. I don’t think that every outcome of evolutionary processes is God’s specific design.”

“More often than we’re really comfortable with admitting, the act of love is one of letting the other be.”

“When I watch the news or when I look at institutions, I often don’t have much hope. But when I look at how people behave one-on-one, then I have great hope. I see kindness, I see love, I see the desire to grow in goodness and love. And I’m often astounded by acts of generosity and by the sacrifice that people are willing to make.”

Church was always going to be my thing.

My mother raised her hand at Billy Graham’s London crusade in ’54, and her life was never the same again. Too soon after, she was making another big choice; delaying chemotherapy until after I was born. Her last words six months later were filled with prayers of love and strength for her children – ‘she was with Jesus now and one day we would all be reunited’.

Image used with permission.

This was the story I was born into, and when my much older sister came home from church singing praise songs on her guitar, it made me feel warm inside and somehow reconnected me to the mother I never knew. It was no wonder then, that on my teenage Christian summer camp trail I was more than ready (like, on several occasions) to put my own hand up to ‘accept’ Jesus. At this point I’d just been through a decade-long blended family car crash, so being around people who prayed comforting things and sang comforting songs was like coming home to a warm log burner of a welcoming community I could finally call my own.

At 18, I moved to Cornwall and started a fresh spiritual journey with the Pentecostals. This was wild and wacky compared to the home counties baptist I was used to – they sang in tongues for half the service, with earnest congregants shuffling to the front to share their ‘divine’ revelations.

After a few years and one word too far (‘God has told me there is someone here who is like a boat, but you are a boat with a hole in your bottom’), I left and joined New Frontiers International, a stream of South Coast churches started by Terry Virgo in the mid 70’s. (Within a couple of decades it would become one of the largest ‘apostolic’ networks in the UK).

By the late 80’s I met Jane; we fell in love, got married, quit our jobs, and moved to a university town for our teacher training. We signed up to the local NFI church, and that’s where we bedded in for the next 20 years, ticking off a zillion meetings and a hundred different rotas (serving = top points). It was a way of life we got used to, and it chimed with (what we thought were) our core beliefs.

One of our life-long friends had mentioned a few times about her experiences at Taize. This French ecumenical monastic fraternity was started in 1940 by Brother Roger, and has grown into a hugely popular site of Christian pilgrimage hosting tens of thousands of (mainly) young people each year for prayer, bible study, and communal work. To be honest it always sounded super-weird – chanting monks and embarrassing silences – there’s absolutely no way you can pray without words. But then one of my long-hair-trendy-trainers guitar students also mentioned how cool this place was when he and his family visited. Within a few months, synchronicity had stepped in and we decided to drop by as part of a family road trip across France that summer. Little did we know the significant effect it would have on our spiritual landscape.
 
I am sitting in a thinly carpeted, simply decorated cavernous building with over 1000 people waiting in silence. My stomach is tight, my heart rate well over 100, and I can’t seem to get a full breath. I crane my head expecting a middle-aged man to rise to his feet and officially start the meeting. Suddenly there is a movement; a line of brothers dressed in white hooded robes (no pointy hats thankfully) enter from a side door and quietly kneel in the middle of the gathering, facing the front. Everyone is facing the front. We are gazing towards an array of bright flickering candles, vibrant colours of carefully draped cloth all creating a soft mesmerising point of focus. No formal welcome, no notices, no us-and-them. Someone faintly starts chanting a repeating single verse of scripture. No band; just a brother with what looks and sounds like a ten pound kid’s keyboard from a car boot sale.
Everyone joins in.

 
Over the next five days my conversations with people from various nationalities brought home the shocking reality of their humble faith vs. my dogmatic beliefs. They discussed Christianity with a deeply organic simplicity. It suddenly dawned on me just how spiritually exhausted I was by my evangelical faith.

I drove back home on the smooth and clear A26 through the spacious French countryside towards Calais feeling completely and utterly undone.
 We returned to the UK and I left the church.

The first two years were as much painful as it was liberating. I felt stupid for allowing myself to be Pied Pipered down the garden path, angry with leaders I’d put my trust in, but more than that; regretting the years of identifying with such an exclusive narrative, and the complete allegiance to a narrow and stifling ideology. How the heck did I let this happen? I had married this brand of religion so young and full of promise and expectation, but in 20 years all I had to show for it was an ugly ‘we have it all and know it all’ arrogance – I now had nothing! I now knew nothing!

The earthquake had been swift and catastrophic. Although I still felt a measure of peace in the basement, everything I knew on the surface ended up well and truly flattened. Were those moments of pure stillness and wonder in the ‘presence of God’ during worship meetings authentic, or merely emotional magic much like swaying to an exhilarating U2 power ballad at the 02? Was the sense of serene calm and deep rest during my ‘quiet times’ just what happens when you give your body quality downtime?

It has now been over ten years of Sunday morning lie-ins, a dusty bible, a laden swear-box, and a verse-free fridge. I threw out the prescribed reading list a long while back, and discovered so many inspiring teachers like Richard Rohr, Eckhart Tolle, and Tara Brach. I’ve also finally expunged the insider language for a refreshingly new, broader, inclusive lexicon.

My 30-year-old self would be head-in-hands horrified at my ‘desperately sad backsliding’, but I love my much less bloated life with space to think, discuss and debate with others (as equals) what we think life is all about rather than endure the force-fed weekly sermon. I’ve had the spiritual hard drive set by my inherited faith/family/church well and truly reformatted.

When I now sit in a quiet place, calm my thoughts, let everything go, move closer to fully accepting things as they are right now, I feel exactly the same peace inside as I did after spending time as a ‘being still and knowing he is God’ evangelical. Nothing has changed. Is this vibe ‘God’ coming close to me? Or can ‘God’ also transmute into love/nature/meditation, and flow through those things just as powerfully?
The one question I always want to ask whenever I read an escaping evangelical story is ‘so what do you believe now?’

A good deal less than what I used to! I jumped in with both feet to so many views peddled by preachers of old with their own interpretation of the bible. Their weaponising of scripture formed much of what Evangelicalism is today – I built so much on that sand.

So now the kind of rock I’m happy to stand on is love. Love, and the 101 different things that small word means. I believe ‘God’ – the words ‘God’ and ‘love’ are interchangeable right? – is the unwordable source of life, the author of nature, and the supreme creator of the universe and everything in it. It’s only this sense of ‘love’ that has calmed my lifetime anxiety disorder, and it’s ‘love’ that I connect with when I meditate. If God is hiding behind that over-used four-letter word, then I’ll take that – and continue to discover a measure of acceptance in what I don’t know and cannot work out. Becoming comfortable in the ‘not knowing’ may just be what my kind of faith looks like right now.

–       Andy Read

To kick off 2024 we thought we’d share a Nomad Revisited episode with you. Each month on Revisited Tim and Nick raid the Nomad archives, dust off an old interview, and ponder where their faith was then, where it is now, and what influences shaped that transition.

Nomad Revisited is usually tucked away behind a paywall on our Patreon page as a little thank you for the listeners who help us pay the bills. But we’re making this one freely available as a little New Years treat.

In this Revisited, we travel back to 2015 and a conversation Tim had with the much loved blogger and author Rachel Held Evans. Rachel was one of the early pioneers in the deconstruction space, blogging about her experiences of growing up in a fundamentalist Bible Belt culture, and her experiences of publicly questioning this.

Rachel became a beacon of hope for thousands of people wrestling with an evolving faith. But sadly she died suddenly in 2019 at just 37, leaving a husband and two young children. So this is an episode marked by sadness, but also a celebration of a beautiful life.

Interview starts at 15m 42s

If you’d like a brand new Nomad Revisited each month, then sign up at our Patreon page.

Image used with permission.

WEBSITE

Rachel Held Evans

BOOKS

Wholehearted Faith

Inspired: Slaying Giants, Walking on Water, and Loving the Bible Again

Searching for Sunday: Loving, Leaving, and Finding the Church

A Year of Biblical Womanhood

Faith Unraveled: How a Girl Who Knew All the Answers Learned to Ask Questions

QUOTES

“After a while you give up on trying to keep a label; you try and be the person that you are, you worship where you feel like you can worship, and if people decide to declare you a ‘heretic,’ then you just kind of have to deal.”

“My mantra throughout it all is: ‘I want to have thick skin, but I want to also have a tender heart.’ If I shut off the part of myself that can be hurt by criticism, then I’m also shutting off the part of myself that can feel empathy and compassion. And I’m not willing to do that. So – that means that sometimes it’s just got to hurt.”

“The challenge is to tell the truth about the church in all of its complexity and different shades – acknowledging the ugly parts while also acknowledging the beautiful, grace-filled, amazing parts.”

“The challenge is to not get sucked into naïveté on one hand or cynicism on the other, but to tell oneself the truth: that most of us are complicated people who are simultaneously sinners and saints.”

In this Christmas devotional podcast, Dr Christena Cleveland explores the symbolism of the Black Madonna. In times of dysregulation and uncertainty, the Black Madonna has provided Christena a powerful symbol of love, nurture and connection, allowing her to move from a spirituality of fear to one of trust.

Following Christena’s refection, Anna Robinson creates a contemplative space for us to more deeply reflect and experience this womb-like space of safety and trust.

Jay Hulme then reads a poem about Julian of Norwich, the 14th Century mystic who experienced a radical connection with the divine feminine.

All this is beautifully woven together with the music of Jon Bilbrough (musically known as Wilderthorn).

Full instrumental tracks of the music featured in this episode (and more) are available here.

Images used with permission.

PERMISSIONS

The Poem Mother Julian by Jay Hulme from the book The Vanishing Song used with permission from Canterbury Press.

BOOKS

God is a Black Woman – Christena Cleveland

The Vanishing Song – Jay Hulme

The Backwater Sermons – Jay Hulme

Clouds Cannot Cover Us – Jay Hulme

QUOTES

“Liminal spaces are legitimately scary. And as a human, I have all of these built-in coping mechanisms that actually prevent me from connecting with the divine when I need her most.”

“The womb gives me a spiritual umbilical cord which activates precisely when I am most dysregulated, when I am most faced with uncertainty.”

“For unlike white male God, who’s distracted and a workaholic and a taskmaster and judgmental. You are right here saying, okay, little one, I know you got a lot going on.”

“Even though our limited spirituality of darkness is one of White Male God’s ploys to keep us in the patriarchal fold, it is directly into liminal space that we must march if we are ever to liberate ourselves.”

As I sit down to write this, I’ve become very much aware of the fact that I’m in the twilight days of my 20’s…and I’ve spent 17 years of my life doing *something* in the church. That’s more than half my life. *Insert exacerbated expletive here*

Image used with permission

This is, to those that knew me growing up, likely no surprise. I was born and raised in a Methodist church, with some of my earliest memories being in my parents living room while a church meeting is in progress. The faith I inherited was literally that: Inherited from my family, from going to support my father in his preaching, learning the family grace that was said over meals, saying your prayers before bed at night with my grandmother. My early teenage years were spent being a worship steward at my home church, attending church meetings in the evenings, going to Synod, and being a part of the Youth Worship band.

What follows (mercifully in a shortened version) is series of conscious and unconscious decisions and events that led me to now: Volunteering for my local circuit and District denomination, studying and working to be a Youth Worker, being Youth President of the Methodist church, leaving the UK to work for a church in the US, to being back in the UK once again, working for the Methodist Church once again.

Now…in the middle of all that was the experiences that most of us have, sadly, come to experience within churches. Being overworked to the extent that I was signed off sick from university during my degree because I was burning myself out “living out my calling.” Working for a church where the leadership gas-lit me, having the “mid-west” approach to dealing with problems (i.e. letting them simmer, gossip with others about it until it just explodes and causes immense pain), threats to my immigration status, and where finally they publicly fired me (with no reason given to me or publicly) less than a week after being married. For a community that purports to be centered on love and care; church communities are some of the worst for alienating folks, segregating those that don’t conform, and isolating people.

There are some honestly beautiful and lovely parts of my life and journey during those times that, despite the harm and pain caused by the Church, I hold close to me. Meeting my (now) partner, the birth of our child, those that care for and supported our family during the pain of US immigration process. The families and friends that we met via the church, but embodied more human and, dare I say, Christ-like behavior though the ups and downs of life.

The Church and, by extension, my faith are both specter and companion in my life. However, I am an optimist at heart, so rather than focusing on the specters that haunt me, I want to share, with all this context, where my deconstruction journey began.

And it started with a cup of tea.

Around the time I was 15 years old, I started to just question things in the church and around faith. I have memories of being told things through those preaching and in youth groups that were given as ‘This is the truth!” that just didn’t sit right with me. If I questioned it, there was a push back and belittling because “you’re young, you’ll learn.” At the same time, there was upheaval in the church over a loss of historic leadership and a change in worship, which I threw myself into the conversations about. In the questioning, the pushback, the high stress, and the teenage angst; I was asked if I wanted a cup of tea and a chat.

Clare, who was in her late 70’s back then, saw all these questions and stress and offered me a space to chat. I went over to her house, had a cup of tea, and just started asking questions that were on my heart. What I got back was deep grace, and no answers. Rather, Clare would ask me a question back, or offer her opinion for me to comment on. This space, offered by Clare, was where my deconstruction started. We’d spend one afternoon weekly just sitting together and chatting about faith, the church, theology, politics, and more. A space that we knew there wasn’t a clear answer, and that some of the “truths” that we were being told on Sunday were not that. A space where you could bring in other faith traditions and ideas to the conversation and it would be embraced into the ongoing conversations.

I think we all have these kinds of people and moments in our deconstruction journeys. The people who offer a space to talk. The friend who suggests a book that we might be interested in. The random person online who suggests a podcast to listen to. The time I spent with Clare is something that the Institution of the Church seems to long for: An ongoing, intergenerational conversation about faith. Yet, I feel that this already happens in the deconstruction or faith shifting sphere and is the reason why the Institution of the Church longs for it but can’t yet grasp it. I struggle to see how we can have these conversations, in which we enter with a heart of curiosity, where there isn’t a firm answer or a solid truth, and *not* take the first steps into deconstruction or a shift in faith.

I went weekly to Clare’s until I left for the US. I have many things to thank Clare for, and there isn’t enough time to list all the things I’m thankful for. In the work I was doing, be it as a Youth worker, church leader, or just as a good friend, I tried and be like Clare in providing the space to just be and question, without agenda or hard answer.

We came back to the UK just before Christmas last year. I went over to see her, now in her mid-90’s, with my partner and child, and a tea blend as a Christmas present. She opened the door, saw us, we cried. I went to the kitchen and made the pot of tea, brought it through, and we started our conversations once again, like time hadn’t passed.

– Tim Annan

In this special seasonal episode, all the Nomad hosts come together for a Q&A to infuse your holidays with festive cheer.
As a thank you to our beloved listeners whose financial support made this year’s 24 Nomad episodes possible, we’ve gathered around the virtual fireplace to wrestle with 24 of their burning questions. Everything from our favourite biscuits to whether Jesus is God!
So, grab a cozy blanket, pour yourself a glass of mulled wine, and join us as we share stories, insights, and a touch of seasonal merriment. It’s our way of saying thank you and celebrating the incredible community that makes the Nomad Podcast journey so special.


QUOTES

“Evangelical Christianity is as much a ‘pick-and-mix’ as anything else.” – Nick

“To think of Jesus as a young, uneducated, poor guy – standing up for the rights of marginalized in the face of imperial and religious power and privilege – I find really inspiring.” – Tim

“I like the idea that there’s a divine being that could be bothered to be incarnated to reach out to us. I have no idea if that’s real or not, and I wonder if it says more about our longings when we think about it and what we believe than it says about what’s actually true.” – Joy

“I do have hope in people; I have hope in kindness. So, I think about how violence and fear can perpetuate and be in cycles – but so can love and so can kindness.” – Anna

Author and poet Jay Hulme joins us to talk about his literal and metaphorical search to connect with a variety of ancient and eccentric saintly figures. Weaving together themes of wilderness, faith, sexuality and decay, Jay speaks of the connections he discovered and the inspiration we might find when examining these lives from long ago.

Following the interview Anna and Joy consider their past and present relationships to religious saints and reflect on what role these themes play in their lives today.

Interview begins at 16m 25s

Image used with permission

WEBSITE

Jay Hulme

BOOKS

The Vanishing Song

The Backwater Sermons

Clouds Cannot Cover Us

QUOTES

“A good poem will take two disparate things and make a point out of them by connecting them in a way that’s unusual, or unthought of, or unconsidered. And I think that’s a really good way to consider how we experience faith.”

“It’s about reconciling our community of the past, our community of the present and our community of the future in God, and knowing that God holds us all in that. God forgives the past, God encourages the future, and God stands with us in the present. And it’s about all of that happening all at once in that moment outside of time and inside of time.”

“One day, I will be a shattered skull in a graveyard, and that’s okay. Because that’s what happens and has happened to everybody who has ever gone before us. And the world’s still spinning.”

“Is that not what trans people do, but help people to see the truth of God better?”

In 2018 I found myself at a point in life where I was terrified upon realising that my faith as it had been for my entire life didn’t seem to be working anymore. After already suffering a few years of general anxiety (often subconsciously and not knowing any obvious cause), there seemed to be a perfect storm brewing. On top of financial worries, and the general stress and sleep deprivation that comes with being a parent, I had a health scare when I was told that I could drop dead at any moment. Our second child had just been born, and I had just been dealt the blow that would put a dose of PTSD on top of the mounting stress and anxiety that I was already facing.

Image used with permission.

The belief that I had acquired from a lifetime in church was that all of this was within God’s great plan. But I was depressed (but refusing to admit it), and all my doubts that could usually be suppressed by my faith where starting to bubble up.

I carried on with my life, job and everything as normal, and kept busy to distract myself from whatever hellish emotional existence I was wading through. I immersed myself deeper into church stuff because of the belief that the closer I stuck to God, the better position I’d be in to ‘ride out’ whatever type of storm seemed to be brewing in my life.

A year after that, my wife was the first to notice that I had really not been right since my health scare (which was mostly resolved). Life got harder, but mostly as result of my rapidly decreasing mental well-being. I ended up seeking professional help, and was informally diagnosed with PTSD, which made a lot of sense.

Then, right at the beginning of 2020 (just as some weird virus was being talked about) my wife, pregnant at the time with our third, became seriously ill, and was hospitalised just before the birth. I was also facing my business possibly going bankrupt after a construction project went badly wrong…. And a looming pandemic, which I thought would inevitably be the death of my financial stability. So this had become that perfect storm.

I’d always naively believed that my faith would be enough to sustain me through any trials in life. But here I was completely broken and at the lowest point I’d ever known – crying out to God with every last fragment of emotional energy.

I continued to plough into every element of my faith that I thought could help me through. Because it’s the only thing you can do, right? I was reading the bible more, leaving home earlier each day to have a quiet time on my way to work, attending more small groups in my church, heavily involved in leading worship, fasting regularly, praying more than ever… but it didn’t work. It only made me feel worse. I was honest about it to many people from my church, but all I heard back was to do more of all the aforementioned list. I’d piled the pressure onto myself to perform as the best Christian I could be. But it really felt like God had abandoned me – totally. In the moment I needed him the most, he was gone.

Then while talking to a friend from my church about all of this, he said “just stop trying”. So I did, not really thinking that was a permissible option, but I had nothing left. I didn’t abandon my faith, I just stopped doing any of the things I had been. No prayer, no bible, nothing related to Christianity at all. I had pressed pause on my faith. And that afternoon, my life changed forever.

While walking into town to get my lunch, it was like I could see a new reality. I felt so connected to every person around me on a whole new level, I felt ‘at one’ with everything, and like the weight of the world had been lifted off my shoulders. It felt like some kind of spiritual awakening. It completely changed my worldview and how I related to everyone and everything.

So I couldn’t go back to what I had, but I still was subject to the ingrained belief that Christianity was the ‘only way’. This reinstalled a certain level of fear that I had to believe the correct facts about Jesus to ensure my salvation. But over the following months I decided I needed to interrogate what I actually believed, and why I believed it. This then lead to me learning that many of the ‘facts’ I’d been brought up with weren’t always that simple, or weren’t even believed by many Christians or Jews over the centuries anyway. Everything started to change. All of a sudden it seemed all too convenient that the one narrow window of Christian interpretation that I had been brought up with – just so happened to be the only ‘true’ worldview and belief system.

Over those few months, I came across many elements of my inherited faith that just didn’t make sense anymore. I started to study like crazy, via podcasts, lectures, conversations, books etc. I was discovering that so many things that I’d been taught and believed didn’t seem to be grounded in a good interpretation of the bible. Really fundamental themes were suddenly seemingly quite blurry. The ‘black and white’ nature of everything started to grate on me. The ‘us and them’-ness of every teaching seemed uncomfortable. My new found worldview of the ‘togetherness’ of everything caused my faith to start to fall apart. The house of cards fell, i had to submit to what was happening to me, let it run its course, but ultimately I had to get out.

It was incredibly disturbing and scary to start with, but why would God let/lead me into this if it wasn’t the right journey for me? I felt a strange kind of comfort about the whole thing. But I wasn’t at all wanting to loose my faith, I was terrified of loosing it. That was the exact thing that I’d been fighting against for years. So it was an immensely confusing time. A strange combination of liberation – mixed with trepidation.

I spoke a lot to Christian friends and leaders from my church, but no-one understood. I felt pushed away. I get why – to an extent. As Christian’s, we’re always told that your life will fall apart the moment you ‘let go’, and spiral out of control. But my experience was the complete opposite. The moment I let go, my depression lifted. I took responsibility of how I was feeling, stopped trying to rely on my faith. It turns out that actually I can do it with my own strength! And I should have tried many years ago rather than allowing myself to get stuck in this pointless waiting game that was only generating a frustrating state of life-draining stagnation.

So I get why my friends and leaders don’t know what to say, because this kind of story is off the radar. It shouldn’t happen. They have no response other than concerns that I’ve ‘gone liberal’, like it’s a contagious disease! To me, what felt like the most pivotal experience of my life – seemed to others to be completely invalid.

Unfortunately, as a result, I’ve lost many friends that I have known for all of my adult life. I tried to reach out to people but it’s like I’ve fell off the earth, It’s the same for my wife who shares a similar experience too. When we visit Christian friends, it always feels like there is a massive elephant in the room. And the conversation will never feel natural or open and free when it always used to.

All I know is that life on the ‘other side’ is far better than I ever thought it could be. As far as I can tell, there is no going back. Life is the best it ever has been. I feel peace, and I feel unconditional love and compassion for nature and my fellow humans on a level far greater than I ever could as a Christian. I still get stressed, and have weird symptoms of anxiety occasionally, but I can keep it all in check by being aware of what I’m doing in my life to cause it.

The God that I thought I knew up until 2020 is not involved anymore. If God is real, and all-knowing, he knows what it would take to bring me back… and he hasn’t done it. If he’s real, he doesn’t seem to want me. And that goes against everything I’ve been taught about God throughout my whole life.

I use the phrase ‘dropped my faith’, but in reality it feels like the letting go that I did was the most faithful act I ever committed. If I could ever believe in some sort of god/divine energy/presence – and if it is in control or influencing my life, I was fully faithful to it. Because leaving my former faith was the hardest, and most painful thing I’ve ever done. Yet it felt like I had no choice. It was happening whether I liked it or not. If I’d resisted – I really don’t even like to think about what my life would be like now.

My whole perspective of life and the universe shifted, it changed me and moulded me into a better, more compassionate and loving person. And for that I am eternally thankful.

– Tim

In this episode former pastor Dana Hicks guides us through the evolving landscape of marriage and relationships. Dana explores how our cultural perceptions of marriage are shifting and challenging established norms, and ponders the relevance of biblical images of marriage for our modern context. With a focus on reimagining relationships, Dana helps us explore ideas such as relationship anarchy, and how they might help us shape the future of marriage.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Nick Thorley reflect on the understanding of marriage they inherited, and how that’s being reshaped as their faith evolves.

Interview begins at 14m 07s

Image used with permission.

WEBSITE

Dana Hicks

BOOKS

The Knot: How to Secure Healthy, Modern Relationships While Not Being Tied to Marriage’s Past

QUOTES

“Relationship Anarchy says that we shouldn’t go into relationships with the understanding that we’re heading up some sort of relational escalator, but we need to agree to what those expectations are.”

“This notion that somehow the church has always had a monopoly on marriage and the definition of marriage and involvement in marriage is just not true historically.”

“Fidelity to love means we ask the question, not what form does marriage take, but how does it function in our lives? How do we create institutions that enable us to love each other and God in the most efficient and effective ways? The question of function is more important than the question of form.”

“Marriage exists to serve human beings, not the other way around.”

“Marriage is hard, but it’s hard because of the expectations we put on it.”

In this episode we’re joined by Franciscan sister and theologian Ilia Delio. Ilia guides us through the intersection of science, spirituality, and love. We explore the concept of God’s love as a fundamental force in the cosmos, existing at the heart of everything, connecting us to God, each other and the physical structures of the universe.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Anna Robinson ponder the place of love in their evolving faith.

Interview begins at 18m 25s

Image used with permission

BOOKS

My Theology: The Primacy of Love

Birth of a Dancing Star: My Journey from Cradle Catholic to Cyborg Christian

The Hours of the Universe: Reflections on God, Science, and the Human Journey

The Unbearable Wholeness of Being: God, Evolution, and the Power of Love

PODCAST

Hunger for Wholeness

WEBSITE

The Center for Christogenesis

QUOTES

“I do think that love is our core reality. Every single person seeks to love and to be loved, no matter their colour, race, language, gender – wherever they are in the universe – I think love is the core reality of our lives. And God is that love.”

“When the inner presence of love becomes stronger than the outer reality of the world’s forces, then we begin to live from that inner centre.”

“I try to make all of life a prayer,…to make prayer a way of life.”

“Stop controlling. Just live into the flow of life.”

As part of her personal spiritual journey and theological master’s research, Lindsay Monroe invited a group of women to explore the impact of purity culture on their sexuality. We invite her to discuss what she discovered, about the harm inflicted by this ideology and how we might be open to finding healthier and more authentic ways forward.

Following the interview, Nick Thorley and Joy Brooks consider their experiences of purity culture and how they might develop a wider understanding of sexuality.

Interview starts at 15m 32s

Image used with permission

WEBSITE

Lindsay Munroe

QUOTES

“Anyone who has had any contact with Purity Culture has heard a story where they and their sexuality was compared to some kind of inanimate object that was used and sustained irrevocable harm.”

“I’m not against teaching kids about sex in a way that encourages boundaries. But I don’t see anything redeemable in Purity Culture.”

“Especially in situations where you’ve been harmed, feeling anger is proof that you believe yourself to be worthy of something beyond that.”

“There is no perfect answer to how to have a healthy sexuality after Purity Culture – it’s going to look different with everyone. And that can feel terrifying. But past that terrifying feeling that there might be a right thing to do, there’s this incredible, curious, creative world of being able to explore and get to know yourself better.”

In this episode we speak with a non-human guest: the AI chatbot, ChatGPT. We quiz ChatGPT on the ethical complexities and moral implications of weaving AI into our lives and spiritual journeys. We discuss what safeguards need to be in place to ensure AI acts as a catalyst for human flourishing, what AI can teach us about what it means to be human, and whether it could create it’s own religious texts, and lead it’s own Church of AI?

After the interview Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Joy Brooks look for signs of hope in this emerging AI landscape.

Interview starts at 19m 13s


WEBSITE

ChatGPT

BOOKS (recommended by ChatGPT)

You Look Like a Thing and I Love You: How AI Works and Why It’s Making the World a Weirder Place” – Janelle Shane

The Age of Surveillance Capitalism: The Fight for a Human Future at the New Frontier of Power – Shoshana Zuboff

The Ethical Algorithm: The Science of Socially Aware Algorithm Design – Michael Kearns and Aaron Roth

Human + Machine: Reimagining Work in the Age of AI – Paul R. Daugherty and H. James Wilson

Artificial You: AI and the Future of Your Mind – Susan Schneider

TechGnosis: Myth, Magic, and Mysticism in the Age of Information – Erik Davis

The Innovators: How a Group of Hackers, Geniuses, and Geeks Created the Digital Revolution – Walter Isaacson

The Shallows: What the Internet Is Doing to Our Brains – Nicholas Carr

QUOTES

“It’s actually quite fascinating how people often attribute human traits to machines. There’s something deeply human about wanting to connect – even if it’s with a series of algorithms and circuitry. It’s a testament to our capacity for empathy and our innate desire to understand and be understood.”

“AI can provide tools to enhance creativity, but it can’t replace the uniquely human context that gives art, music, and poetry their depth.”

“The challenge is to ensure that as AI gets better at taking care of us, we don’t forget to take care of each other.”

“AI could be a tool for creating more inclusive and equitable systems, but it requires responsible stewardship.”

“In environments where critical thinking is discouraged or even penalized, AI-generated advice could inadvertently perpetuate harmful ideologies or practices. That’s one of the complexities when technology intersects with deeply ingrained social and cultural systems. It can either be a force for change, or an amplifier of existing issues.”

“AI can be both a challenge and an opportunity, forcing us to re-examine what we hold dear.”

“The potential for both good and bad outcomes is a hallmark of many transformative technologies – not just AI.”

Reflecting on the Lord’s Prayer, theologian, writer, and poet Nicola Slee delves into some of it’s problematic language, and through a process of improvisation reimagines the prayer as one that brings a universal message of hope in a world marred by injustice.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Anna Robinson reflect on their own journeys with the Lord’s Prayer, and ponder its role in their current spiritual practices.

Interview starts at 17m 28s

Image used with permission

BOOKS

Abba Amma: Improvisations on the Lord’s Prayer

Seeking the Risen Christa

Sabbath: The hidden heartbeat of our lives

Praying Like A Woman

QUOTES

“I think the Lord’s Prayer is not asking us to forgive and forget these huge systemic injustices. Actually, what we’re asked to do is to see them for what they are and act to change them.”

“I’m not asked to copy exactly what Jesus did or said or believed even. I’m asked to be part of the community of those who try to live out the way of Jesus now.”

“I’m still invested in the project of celebrating a version of Christianity and a version of the bible that is liberating and justice-oriented.”

“If prayer isn’t helping us be more alive and more attentive to God, to ourselves, to others – then it’s not a lot of use.”

Well, this is it. After over six years of hosting, interviewing, music and creativity, David Blower is bowing out.
In his final episode Tim and David reflect on David’s nomad journey, answer listener questions, and listen to some music. And, of course, talk about the Nah Box and signs of hope.
So raise a glass, wipe the tear from your eye, and enjoy a final hour in the company of DBB.

Image used with permission

WEBSITE

David Benjamin Blower

BOOKS

Sympathy for Jonah: Reflections on Humiliation, Terror and the Politics of Enemy-Love

Kingdom Vs. Empire

MUSIC

Bandcamp

SUPPORT

Patreon

Substack

Stewardship

QUOTES

“If something didn’t make any sense to me or just seemed wrong or what have you, then I didn’t really overthink it; I just put it in the ‘nah’ box. I still do. I do it all the time.”

“There’s something to be had in just listening as you’re surrounded by wonder all the time.”

“I can never get away from the centrality of the constant work of humanizing my enemies and my opponents and those I think of wrong and those who are against me.”

Host of the In the Shift podcast Michael Frost is a researcher, writer and theologian. In this episode he shares from his own experience of faith and church, as he unpicks the language that has so often been co-opted in Christian spaces to enforce power and perpetuate unhealthy systems of control.

Afterwards Nick Thorley and Joy Brooks consider the impact of this misuse of power on their own lives and reflect on how they have found healthier ways of engaging with their own faith.

Interview starts at 15m 34s

Image used with permission

PODCAST

In the Shift

WEBSITE

Michael Frost

QUOTES

“The story of Jesus is of a minority, marginalized figure within a very powerful empire who was killed – executed by the state – that’s what’s at the heart of the story. And I think when the church is at the margins, it probably understands that story better.”

“It’s a really awful thing to come to terms with somebody or some community that you thought was one thing that turned out to be something else.”

“We can’t change things unless we own how we got here. But to own it without shame and self-loathing.”

Theologian and community gardener Sam Ewell reflects on his years as a missionary and a neighbour, and how a radical priest called Ivan Illich led him back to the soil.

After the interview, Nomad hosts David Blower and Anna Robinson ponder how the life and teaching of Illich might help shape their evolving faith.

Interview starts at 10m 50s

Image used with permission

BOOKS

Faith Seeking Conviviality: Reflections on Ivan Illich, Christian Mission, and the Promise of Life Together

During two and a half years of cancer treatment, Claire Gilbert found a spiritual companion in Julian of Norwich. We speak to Claire about her experience of writing Julian’s fictional autobiography. She considers the tensions between Julian’s visions and Holy church, whilst reflecting on the possibilities that open up when we are transformed by both suffering and love.

Following the interview, Anna and Joy consider the themes of Julian’s life and how they apply to their experiences of faith and spirituality.

Interview starts at 18m 13s

Image used with permission

BOOKS

I, Julian: The Fictional Autobiography of Julian of Norwich

Miles To Go Before I Sleep: Letters on Hope, Death and Learning to Live

QUOTES

“My experience of the inner life is that it’s anything but boring…it’s a critically important gift that we should say ‘yes’ to. Because, of course, this is the opposite of materialism; this is understanding that your deepest satisfaction precisely doesn’t come from things.”

“You wouldn’t ever want pain for somebody. But we all do have pain or suffering of some kind in our lives. And to deliberately practice that reception of it – that’s a good thing to be able to do.”

“Porosity to me is a really important way of being in and with the world; to try to find a way of living in it without harming it. And Julian taught me that.”

“That’s how I feel we should be responding now is to let ourselves grow to meet what is coming. Let ourselves grow in company. Understand this is not an individual heroes thing. There’s no one hero who’s going to solve anything.”

We speak with Doug King about the evolution of his faith, progressing from Christian fundamentalism to a post-Christian identity. At the heart of Doug’s understanding of this journey is the historical framework of Spiral Dynamics, a model that illuminates the evolution of worldviews across cultures worldwide. This model reveals that the journey many of us have been on – from fundamentalism, through deconstruction, to a more expansive, inclusive spirituality – are not isolated personal experiences, but an integral part of the collective evolution of the human race.

After the interview Tim and Nick share their own experience of Spiral Dynamics, and how it’s helped them make sense of their own journeys.

Interview starts at 18m 58s

Image used with permission

WEBSITES

Presence

Evolutionary Leaders

QUOTES

“Spiral dynamics is a model of the way worldviews have evolved across the planet, and how those worldviews go from stage to stage in every culture.”

“One of the primary principles of the spiral is ‘transcend and include.'”

“The problem is not the narrative; the problem is the interpretive lens that we’ve brought to the narrative.”

“We evolve when our life conditions become unworkable.”

Hearing the stories of so many others who have left I have wondered why I have not – this is a kind of explanation. I found four reasons.

First I was raised in a missionary family so left home aged 6 to go to the mission school and left the far east aged 9 to return to England without my family to be educated. That progressive dilution of family life starts a deconstruction process very young. It was not helped when the story of Abraham’s near sacrifice of Isaac was often alluded to (though not by my parents) as the idealised sacrifice missionaries make. Such bad theology (Abraham doesn’t kill his son) and such crappy bible interpretation (child sacrifice was forbidden) hasn’t prevented the sort of toxic narrative which missionary children have to deal with.  But the non-consensual experience of losing one’s parents because of their vocation and devotion to God causes all sorts of problems. Half of former missionary kids want nothing to do with such a faith. And the rest are bruised.  But I stayed.

Image used with permission

The second reason was listening to two lecture series by Graham Cray in 1993 and 1995. He was principal of an Anglican college at that stage. He hadn’t yet been made a bishop but he was a regular Greenbelt speaker who would lecture about the cultural impact of Madonna, U2 or whoever.

The first series of talks in 1993 was called Culture Shock – it was run jointly by Greenbelt and the Church Times. It was very learned – the list of references was exhausting.  Cray basically explained what post modernism was and why every denomination in the UK was in trouble because their identity was formed by the Enlightenment and was unravelling.

In the second series in 1995 Contours of a world view Cray continued with another three lectures to lay out the factors that were making the world a confusing place well before the end of the 20th century and to point out what kind of church was likely to emerge from the rubble. I still have the talks on cassette plus the handouts with the references on. I haven’t listened to them since. But it meant that I knew that the clouds were gathering even if the church didn’t want to face up to the coming storm. So forewarned is forearmed. It meant that I have experienced the turbulence of the last 20 years and the growing anxiety of institutions trying to keep going at all costs in much the same way.  It’s happening. It’s healthy not to be in denial about it.

The third factor was Greenbelt. I have been to almost every festival since the mid 1980s. The books on my shelves mostly come from people I have heard speak there or had recommended. But more than anything else Greenbelt was a safe space where you could ask or say anything without being shamed or shunned. I recommend it. I cannot imagine what faith I would still have without the presence of Greenbelt as a movement and community.

The last factor was having an incompetent vicar lead the church for some 6 years.  He wasn’t a bad person but he caused tremendous damage. We were hanging on by our fingertips. And being part of a denomination was no help at all. After he had left, we got the handwringing from head office. Why didn’t you ask for help? Well, we had and nothing was done. And I don’t think if we got into the same situation that the denomination would behave any differently other than sit it out and wait for the problem to go away. I asked an archdeacon from another part of the country why nothing was being done and he explained that while you have an unhappy church you have one problem. Get rid of the vicar then you need to sort them out. And then you need to find a new vicar. Well that is three problems to solve and that is just too difficult.

 Perhaps the worst time was when I knew the minister was going but wasn’t allowed to tell anyone. By then there was no one left functioning in leadership. I discovered then that there is something supernatural about the church. I think Jesus keeps it going when humans can’t. I nearly left. My wife had had enough and briefly joined an atheists anonymous group of survivors which formed in the wake of all the trouble. So I would have left with her but the vicar left first.  I know it sounds ironic that an awful  experience of church didn’t drive me out. But the following two ministers knew what they were doing and mended much of the damage.

I should probably fess up and admit I am a lay minister licensed/authorised by my local bishop. So you could say I am and continue to be part of the problem. But in the worst times I learned to use Ali’s strategy from the Rumble in the Jungle – to head for the ropes and bounce back on them. That protected me from the worst of the bad stuff – it didn’t get to me.  I know from experience when you are trying to hold things together in the centre for yourself and others the pressure can be overwhelming and you are aware that what you are doing and saying can hurt instead of heal. 

Perhaps you think I haven’t deconstructed at all. Well, I have a low view of what motivates a lot of what happens in church. A low view of how churches are overseen from a distance. And I am a lot less certain about who Christians are and what they do and whether the quality and character of their belief matters.  But you’ll say deconstruction isn’t about the church it’s about God. True. But one of the most useful books I got out of Greenbelt was How (not) to speak of God by Pete Rollins, also a Greenbelter.  In which he pointed out that language about God is problematic. Words fail. We can’t articulate what or who God is if there is one. Atheists find themselves using exactly the same language to say what they don’t believe in. So ultimately whether there is a God and whether and how God saves is so much more to do with God than us.  The first Christians were called atheists – I think there is an overlap between theism and atheism because we don’t know anything and we’re not here long enough to find out.  It’s 99% bollocks and 100% grace. That extreme pessimism is enough to keep me going in a church setting.  

– John Griffiths

Sally Mann has lived on the same road in East Ham that her family have lived on since the 1800s. She and Dave have worked and played with their neighbours to form all kinds of shared spaces for common life: community halls, gardens, sports fields and more. This is a story about faith shaped more by encounters with people and place than by institutions and dogma.

After the interview David Blower and Joy Brooks reflect on their own experiences of place and encounter with others. They consider the impact of power and politics on how they experience connection, community and spirituality.

Image used with permission.

BOOKS

Looking for Lydia: Encounters that shape the Church

WEBSITE

Bonny Downs Baptist Church

QUOTES

“Whenever you meet Jesus, he’s on the other side of any kind of boundary that people have put up between us and them.”

“Where churches are draining people of spiritual life, there’s something wrong with that expression of church.”

“Christianity is always best lived at the margins; always best lived where you haven’t really got time for too much introspection and navel-gazing. What you do is you get involved with expressing love and then you reflect on that, and that’s how you know what you believe.”

This is a conversation between Rachel and Simon Jay. Together they reflect on their experiences of fostering and adoption as well as raising their own biological children. They discuss what they’ve learnt, and explore the expectations, challenges and delights of being family.
We have made this conversation public domain, so you are free to turn it into an episode on your own podcast. We ask that you don’t edit the conversation, but please do feel free to add your own introduction and reflections. We also ask that you acknowledge Nomad Podcast.
Click on the download button to access the MP3 and WAV files, and guest images and bios.

Images used with permission.

QUOTES

“We’re very clear about who we are – that we are a family, but that we try and make it possible for kids that maybe find that a bit more difficult to be part of it as much as they want to be rather than forcing them into a specific type of family identity.”

“Why would you make yourself uncomfortable if you don’t have to? And I think what we’ve ended up doing is making ourselves quite uncomfortable. And then that’s created a sense of change of theology, because it wasn’t working.”

“Being human is about connection. We are intrinsically, fundamentally built for connection.”

Click on the subscribe button if you’d like to be added to a mailing list to be kept aware of future public domain podcasts.

Over the last 20 years Rachel and Simon Jay have been parents to many children through fostering and adoption as well as raising their own biological children. In this conversational episode, we listen in as they reflect on their experiences, discuss what they’ve learnt, and explore the expectations, challenges and delights of being family.

Image used with permission.

QUOTES

“We’re very clear about who we are – that we are a family, but that we try and make it possible for kids that maybe find that a bit more difficult to be part of it as much as they want to be rather than forcing them into a specific type of family identity.”

“Why would you make yourself uncomfortable if you don’t have to? And I think what we’ve ended up doing is making ourselves quite uncomfortable. And then that’s created a sense of change of theology, because it wasn’t working.”

“Being human is about connection. We are intrinsically, fundamentally built for connection.”

We speak with author and teacher, Brad Jersak about his book Out of the Embers: Faith After the Great Deconstruction, and how his dark night of the soul led him to a 12 Step program, the Eastern Orthodox Church and to a new kind of faith. Brad also reflects on the roots of what he refers to as The Great Deconstruction, and the wider cultural shifts that situate our evolving faith.

After the interview Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Nick Thorley ponder their own evolving faith journey, how they’ve been shaped by a changing culture, and how they now relate to Christianity.

Interview starts at 18m 36s

Image used with permission

WEBSITE

Brad Jersak

BOOKS

Out of the Embers: Faith After the Great Deconstruction

Her Gates Will Never Be Shut: Hope, Hell, and the New Jerusalem

A More Christlike God: A More Beautiful Gospel

A More Christlike Word: Reading Scripture the Emmaus Way

QUOTES

“You’re allowed to ask questions. Question your assumptions; question your constructs. And so, we have a construct of the world, a construct of God, a construct of church, a construct of faith. A construct is not the thing itself, it’s my ideas about it.”

“The more I’ve come to forgive myself for who I was, the less I’m projecting anger and bitterness on other people.”

“‘Christianity’ is a brand – it’s a movement – and it has some significant differences from following Jesus.”

Frustrated at the lack of literature on faith deconstruction, Olivia Jackson carried out her own research as she sought to provide hope and solidarity to others on a similar journey. Here she talks about her own story, alongside the impact of receiving hundreds of questionnaires and listening to 140 individual experiences in order to draw together ‘a collective memoir of deconstructing faith‘.

Following the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Joy Brooks consider their own experiences and how connecting with the wider story affects their view of deconstruction.

Interview starts at 16m 13s

Image used with permission

WEBSITE

Olivia Jackson

BOOK

(Un)Certain: A Collective Memoir of Deconstructing Faith

QUOTES

“I would find it very difficult to pin down now what it is that I actually believe. The cast iron certainties before have definitely gone.”

“I’ve certainly been called a ‘heretic.’ That’s a label I’ll wear quite gladly, really…the original meaning of the word ‘heretic’ – from the original Greek of someone who asks questions – well, that’s fine by me.”

“If I can have compassion for you and why you did the things you did, maybe I can have compassion for myself as well.”

“So often things like love, and peace, and freedom are twisted into control, and repression, and shame.”

In this Easter special we interviewed the theologian Ched Myers about the politics of the passion narratives, exploring what the cross and its religious atonement ideas have to do with colonialism, capitalism and the power structures we live in today.

Image used with permission

WEBSITE

Ched Myers

BOOKS

Binding the Strong Man: A Political Reading of Mark’s Story of Jesus

Healing Haunted Histories: A Settler Discipleship of Decolonization

Watershed Discipleship: Reinhabiting Bioregional Faith and Practice

Ambassadors of Reconciliation: New Testament Reflections on Restorative Justice and Peacemaking

We speak with Bible scholar and author, Pete Enns about his new book Curveball, and how he allowed his crisis of faith and deconstruction to open him up to new ways of engaging with the Bible, and to a God who was bigger and more mysterious than he could have previously imagined.

After the interview Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Anna Robinson talk about their journey with the Bible, the curveballs life has thrown them, and how their faith has evolved and shifted as a result.

Interview starts at 15m 09s

Image used with permission

PODCAST

The Bible for Normal People

BOOKS

Curveball: When Your Faith Takes Turns You Never Saw Coming (or How I Stumbled and Tripped My Way to Finding a Bigger God)

How the Bible Actually Works: In which I Explain how an Ancient, Ambiguous, and Diverse Book Leads us to Wisdom rather than Answers – and why that’s Great News

The Bible Tells Me So: Why defending Scripture has made us unable to read it

The Sin of Certainty: Why God desires our trust more than our ‘correct’ beliefs

QUOTES

“These curveballs in my life – these difficulties, these challenges – really pushed me in a much better direction. But it wasn’t easy, and it still isn’t.”

“The biblical tradition itself evolves, it develops, it moves, it doesn’t stay the same.”

“It’s so important to maintain a level of curiosity – which is also a level of humility – to hold our beliefs, as the saying goes, ‘with an open hand not a clenched fist.'”

In this episode we speak with award-winning translator Carmen Acevedo Butcher. Carmen’s latest work is a new, inclusive translation of Brother Lawrence’s classic Practice of the Presence.
Brother Lawrence was a poor, uneducated, disabled monk who worked in a monastery kitchen, who found the divine in the depths of his soul, and learnt to experience the divine presence throughout each day. So we ask Carmen how immersing herself in Brother Lawrence’s writings and spiritual practice helped guide her through her evolving faith and what role it played in her journey of healing from trauma.

Following the interview Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Anna Robinson reflect on their own experience of Brother Lawrence in both evangelical and more contemplative spaces, and ponder the role the Practice of the Presence might play in their evolving understanding of prayer.

Interview starts at 17m 10s

Image used with permission

WEBSITE

Carmen Acevedo Butcher

BOOKS

Practice of the Presence: A Revolutionary Translation

The Cloud of Unknowing: A New Translation

QUOTES

“There are times where talking is not needed, or when the silence is the most intimate. That is what my understanding of prayer became. Words are very important. But it’s really about relationship first.”

“You can’t not be contemplative if you’re just outdoors trying to make sense of things that don’t make sense in the world and you’re seeing the daisy beside you on the path or the red-tailed hawk soaring above you. There’s a way that contemplation finds you and you realize it’s a gift.”

“I would rather practice returning to love, returning to peace, returning to calmness, and to learn to do it like flossing my teeth; to learn to do it so that it becomes an ongoing conversation that’s really unique to me, but also universal for anyone.”

This is a conversation between Jo Dolby, Hub leader of Oasis Church Bath, and Anglican Priest Azariah France-Williams. Together they reflect on their faith shifting experiences alongside navigating church leadership roles. With honesty and humour they communicate the challenges and rewards of growing towards a wider understanding of faith, whilst carrying responsibilities within a Christian setting.

We have made this conversation public domain, so you are free to turn it into an episode on your own podcast. We ask that you don’t edit the conversation, but please do feel free to add your own introduction and reflections. We also ask that you acknowledge Nomad Podcast.

Click on the download button to access the MP3 and WAV files, and guest images and bios.

Images used with permission

QUOTES

“I’ve always had my questions, but haven’t always been in places where those questions were welcome particularly, and so I used to bury them or hide them. But they were still there.” – Azariah France-Williams

“In beginning to learn about things like inclusive church, I was learning how to include myself.” – Azariah France-Williams

“When your paycheque is coming from the thing that you’re questioning, critiquing, or potentially wanting to move away from, safe spaces are really important for your own well-being. – Jo Dolby

“This is what it means to live your best life: not to be free of hardship, but to be travelling the path to wholeness – taking others with you.” – Jo Dolby

Click on the subscribe button if you’d like to be added to a mailing list to be kept aware of future public domain podcasts.

Growing up during the northern Ireland Troubles, author Gareth Higgins experienced some of the devastation stories can effect on individuals and communities. He joins us to talk about his subsequent development and growth, reflecting on the role of story telling and inviting us to consider its role in our own beliefs, relationships and communities.

Following the interview Nomad hosts Joy Brooks and Tim Nash reflect on Gareth’s journey, and ponder how it might inform their own evolving faith.

Interview starts at 15m 22s

Image used with permission

WEBSITE

Gareth Higgins

BOOKS

How Not To Be Afraid: Seven Ways to Live When Everything Seems Terrifying

The Seventh Story: Us, Them, and the End of Violence

PERMISSIONS

A Blessing of Enough and A Blessing For When the World Seems Too Much were taken from How Not To Be Afraid by Gareth Higgins, used with permission by Canterbury Press.

QUOTES

“The myth of ‘greatness’ is a curse. The story that we need is the one that says, ‘You and I are in community.'”

“It’s not just that I’m no better than anybody else, but I’m no worse than anybody else. We’re all kinda glorious.”

“The truth is not that we’re doomed and there’s nothing we can do about it. And the truth is not that everything’s fine and I don’t have to do anything. The truth is actually we’re here for a short time and we get to learn what it is to be a lover and to be loved.”

“Suppose you have one guilder. Which poor person would you give it to – the one who’s a Christian, or the one who isn’t?”

It was around 1990 and my husband and I were facing The Dreaded Grilling by his home church elders. We worked with Youth With A Mission (YWAM) in the Philippines, were back in the Netherlands on furlough, and these five evangelical heavyweights wanted to make sure we hadn’t gone off the rails. It was an utterly ridiculous question, of course, but we knew the answer they wanted, and much of our own financial support depended on giving it.

Social justice, a.k.a. the social gospel, was seen as competition, even a threat, to ‘the true gospel’ – saving souls. And one of the bizarre ways of demonstrating which side you stood on was loyalty to Christian brothers and sisters first and foremost.

Image used with permission

I was born in London in 1960 to parents who were not church goers. What was to be of quite some spiritual significance, however, was that each bedtime they would read to me and my three siblings. The world of C. S. Lewis’s Narnia was more familiar in my memories than any of the homes we lived in throughout childhood.

When I was 15, one of my sisters became a Christian. She had been the Black Sheep of the family and suddenly she was being nice to me for the first time in our lives. ‘There must be a God!’ was my teenage logic. And, once open to the idea that God existed, I had very little hesitation in turning to the Divine. Narnia had laid the foundation: Aslan was good.

Soon after becoming a Christian myself, I started attending a small but lively Baptist church. At the age of 23, I headed over to the Netherlands to do a Discipleship Training School with YWAM. Then joined staff in Amsterdam, helping to organize street evangelism programs. It was there I met Paul, my Dutch husband-to-be, and together we experienced something of a reconversion through reading different books on social justice. In 1988 we first came here to Manila, the Philippines to do a (YWAM) primary healthcare school, located near a huge slum area built on a mountain of the city’s refuse. We decided to stay, later running a student sponsorship project.

Mental health was not understood then as it is understood now, especially in over-spiritualised Christian circles. Long story short: after 5 years we crashed and burned. We returned to the Netherlands, found ‘normal’ jobs, in graphic design and teaching. Then, years later, moving into the house of our dreams, we realised that our dreams actually lay elsewhere. So, in 2008, after being in the Netherlands 14 years, we came back to Manila. Since then, we’ve been helping to run a charity/NGO called Young Focus very close to where we were before.

We feel so lucky to be able to do this kind of work among folks caught in extreme poverty. And please don’t get me wrong, this is not about doing the missionary-colonising-white-saviour thing. Lord knows, there’s been enough of that in this country. The true heroes here are our Filipino colleagues and the families we work with, helping their children access education. There is a sense of collaborating with the Divine that I wouldn’t swop for the world.

As far as deconstruction/faith shifting is concerned: Looking back, there was such cognitive dissonance between the evangelical doctrine I followed in my head versus the deep-knowing sowed in my heart thanks to C. S. Lewis. The first implied a merciless rejection of most of the human race; the second embraced all in radically inclusive love. The first was sustained by constant exposure to the same message; the second brought me through all kinds of personal trials, challenges and heartache.

Over the course of missionary (10 years) and church (46 years) life, I’ve met some truly amazing people. But also, pretty inevitably, I’ve crossed paths with a number of complete jerks and deeply dysfunctional situations. It wasn’t, however, so much a case of one of those negative experiences triggering my turning away from evangelicalism. Instead, it has been a slow but sure, chunk by chunk dismantling: discarding an assumption here (only men should be in leadership), shedding of a prejudice there (homosexuality is wrong), these lies falling away like huge weights. Then, during the pandemic, the process seemed to snowball into a full unravelling of a formerly long-held belief system, particularly concerning the idea of everyone-is-destined-for-eternal-torment-in-hell-if-they-don’t-make-a-decision-for-Christ-before-they-die.

It’s a path of evolving theology and I’m still very much on it. Though the faith shifting journey can be quite scary at times – whatever am I going to throw out next, will it accidentally be the proverbial baby?? – mostly this journey has been a magnificent relief: mind and heart are finally getting in synch!

And there are many gifts-that-keep-giving. For example:

A new freedom to love: Before, I think there was a subconscious brake; I dared not truly care, because the implications were too horrifying – what if this person before me was destined for hell…?!?

A new sense of community: Those blinkers of dysfunctional theology kept me blind to everyone but my own clan, what a relief to be discovering the broader vision of fellow humans in all our diversity. How we have painted ourselves into a corner, cutting ourselves off from the world, missing out on so much… and doing so much harm to others in the process!

A freedom to befriend without an agenda. (Lordy, what a relief to everyone!!)

Back to those Dutch church elders mentioned at the beginning: our relationship with them continued to be strained over the following few years, till they officially cut us off for not ‘submitting 100%’ to them. Then, a decade or so later, most of those formerly hardened control freaks approached us, sincerely sorry for what they’d done. And on that note, I’ll finish. Super cliché, I know, but there’s hope for us all. Eustace and Emeth the Calorman very much included. We’re all on a journey. May we see the awesomeness in every step.

– Ann van Wijgerden

In this episode we chat with journalist and editor Katelyn Beaty about Christian celebrity. After distinguishing between celebrity and fame, Katelyn explores the ways celebrity has shaped the church and Christian faith in unhealthy ways, how it has led to the abuse of power, the pursuit of growth at all costs, and the fall from grace of so many celebrity Christian leaders.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Nick Thorley reflect on their own relationship with Christian celebrities, both positive and negative, and the role they’ve played in their evolving faith.

Interview starts at 17m 19s

Image used with permission

WEBSITE

Katelyn Beaty

BOOK

Celebrities for Jesus: How Personas, Platforms, and Profits Are Hurting the Church

QUOTES

“Celebrity is a distinctly modern phenomenon in that it relies on the tools of mass media – newspapers, television, radio, social media – to project an image or a persona that is impressive, that inspires adoration and attachment in a way that fame doesn’t. With fame, ideally the focus is still on the person’s work or what they give to the world, whereas celebrity tends to form a kind of personal, psychological attachment between the image that someone is projecting and their fans or their followers.”

“We don’t shift our understanding based on the message; we shift our understanding based on the medium.

“You’re setting yourself up for a fall when you don’t welcome and embrace a kind of accountability that hurts sometimes.”

“There’s incredible cognitive dissonance for anybody who’s involved in a church or institution where the public leader – the ‘celebrity’ figure in the organization – has a spectacular fall or has really hurt a lot of other people, has really abused their power in harmful and predatory ways.”

Psychotherapist and philosopher Mark Vernon chats with us about his evolving faith journey, and his conviction that nurturing our spiritual intelligence is crucial if we are to survive and thrive in these troubled times. Known by many names, spiritual intelligence, Mark contends, is the foundation of who we are and the foundation of peace, purpose and solidarity.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Anna Robinson, Joy Brooks and Tim Nash reflect on the framing of spirituality as an intelligence and ponder which of Mark’s observations might help shape their ongoing spiritual evolution.

Interview starts at 23m 31s

Image used with permission

WEBSITE

Mark Vernon

BOOKS

Spiritual Intelligence in Seven Steps

Dante’s Divine Comedy: A Guide for the Spiritual Journey

A Secret History of Christianity: Jesus, The Last Inkling, And The Evolution Of Consciousness

How To Be An Agnostic

QUOTES

“For all its faults that we know so much about – the religious inspiration, the desire for the infinite, for the eternal – it can bring out the worst in human beings, but it also can bring out that which seems to transcend even the worst.”

“The fundamental thing that drives us as human beings is a curiosity, a desire to know wider reality. That’s what keeps us human.”

“That which is good, beautiful, and true leads to the fullest flourishing of life; it leads to God.”

“Ultimately, a spiritual experience is one that wants you to transform – to become more than you were before.”

In this episode we listen in on a conversation between Jo Dolby, Hub leader of Oasis Church Bath, and Anglican Priest Azariah France-Williams. Together they reflect on their faith shifting experiences alongside navigating church leadership roles. With honesty and humour they communicate the challenges and rewards of growing towards a wider understanding of faith, whilst carrying responsibilities within a Christian setting.

Conversation starts at 16m 26s

Images used with permission.

BOOK

Ghost Ship: Institutional Racism and the Church of England

PODCAST

Grace Podcast

QUOTES

“I’ve always had my questions, but haven’t always been in places where those questions were welcome particularly, and so I used to bury them or hide them. But they were still there.” – Azariah France-Williams

“In beginning to learn about things like inclusive church, I was learning how to include myself.” – Azariah France-Williams

“When your paycheque is coming from the thing that you’re questioning, critiquing, or potentially wanting to move away from, safe spaces are really important for your own well-being. – Jo Dolby

“This is what it means to live your best life: not to be free of hardship, but to be travelling the path to wholeness – taking others with you.” – Jo Dolby

Christmas is just round the corner, so we’ve invited Professor Kyle Roberts to help us ponder the idea of Jesus’s virgin conception. Kyle helps us wrestle with questions like, where did Jesus get his Y chromosome from? What’s so great about virginity? And can Jesus stand in solidarity with humanity if he came into the world in a way that no other human has before or since?

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Anna Robinson talk about the understanding of the virgin birth they inherited, and how their evolving faith has reshaped it, along with their views on bodies, sex, the gospels, and all manner of other things.

Interview starts at 15m 23s

Image used with permission.

BOOKS

A Complicated Pregnancy: Whether Mary was a Virgin and Why It Matters

QUOTES

“All theology is contextual, perspective-oriented, and therefore limited.”

“I tend to think of these stories as not ‘myth’ with no truth involved, but more as the term ‘legend’ – a mixture of historical truth and elaboration.”

“We’re always doing some interpretation; we’re always doing some imaginative reconstruction. And I think we just have to be okay with that fact.”

“If we weren’t spending time deconstructing, then I think it would mean we’ve given up.”

Passionate about creating safe spaces for people on the margins of faith and life, Kathy Escobar talks to us about the values and practices that help us to connect with ourselves and others at difficult times. Through shifting faith and traumatic loss, she shares principles that have guided her towards a more congruent and healthy spirituality.

Following the interview, Nomad hosts Nick Thorley and Joy Brooks consider how they have related to emotional and physical challenges alongside their own evolving faith.

Interview starts at 14m 26s

Image used with permission

WEBSITE

Kathy Escobar

BOOKS

Down We Go: Living Into the Wild Ways of Jesus

A Weary World: Reflections for a Blue Christmas

Faith Shift: Finding Your Way Forward When Everything You Believe Is Coming Apart

QUOTES

“Unravelling is a continual thing; there’s not necessarily an end to it.”

“Practice is not a head-game. It’s an action. Embodied. Showing up.”

“The practice of ‘parodoxing’ is learning how to live into dissonant things at the same time. And to own it, and not try to squeeze either of them out.”

“The good part about community is that it gives a chance that when somebody is hopeless, that someone in the room has a little.” 

Therapist, researcher and writer Hillary McBride is back on the show, this time to talk about toxic masculinity. Hillary takes us through some of the various characteristics and manifestations of toxic masculinity, reflects on why it has become so pervasive in Western society, why it often show up in our images of God and in the religious leaders we follow, and how men can begin to recognise and move beyond these limiting and oppressive social constructions.
After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Joy Brooks reflect on their own experiences of toxic masculinity, how it shaped the faith they inherited, and how they now understand and relate to gender.

Interview starts at 16m 35s

Image used with permission.

WEBSITE

Hillary McBride

BOOKS

The Wisdom of Your Body: Finding Healing, Wholeness, and Connection Through Embodied Living

Mothers, Daughters, and Body Image: Learning to Love Ourselves as We Are

QUOTES

“There’s something about the way that masculinity hegemonically is constructed right now that boys feel like they have to distance themselves from their more tender, more vulnerable emotions as a way of belonging to their social group.”

“When shame is unnamed, then it tends to have more control than it needs to.”

“The practice of making space in our lives is really important. If we are over-functioning, if we’re acting tough, if we’re suppressing emotion, if we’re over-working or numbing out, there isn’t any room to encounter the things that are underneath.”

Having read the Gospel of John, Nomad hosts Joy Brooks, Nick Thorley and Tim Nash get together for a chat about the Bible. They reflect on the view of the Bible they inherited, the role it played in their deconstruction, how it felt reading the Bible again after a number of years, and what role the Bible might play in the ongoing evolution of their faith.

Conversation starts at 26m 16s

Images used with permission.

We chat with author Heather King about how the faith she inherited was profoundly reshaped both by recovery from addiction to alcohol and the discovery of the 19th Century French saint Thérèse of Lisieux.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash, Anna Robinson and Nick Thorley, reflect on their own experiences of brokenness and addiction and how it contributed to the deconstruction of the evangelical faith they inherited. They also ponder the role Thérèse’s Little Way might play in the ongoing evolution of their spirituality.

Interview starts at 21m 18s

Image used with permission.

WEBSITE

Heather King

BOOKS

Shirt of Flame: A Year with St. Thérèse of Lisieux

Redeemed: Stumbling Toward God, Sanity, and the Peace That Passes All Understanding

Story of a Soul: The Autobiography of St. Therese of Lisieux

QUOTES

“If you’re an alcoholic – or a human being, for that matter – you have a deep reservoir of things that you have done that you are not proud of; that you feel deep guilt and shame about. And I think there has to be a way to process that, because those are the things that block us from becoming who we were meant to be.”

“[St. Therese] realized that just to do everything during her day – whether it was eating, whether it was making her bed, whether it was falling asleep at prayer – to do it with love.”

“It’s not like we have to change our actions or our station in life, or where we live, or what we do. It’s more that I think we get to change the orientation of our heart.”

We chat with professor, researcher and clinical psychologist Dr. Lisa Miller about her fascinating research into the benefits of spirituality.
Dr. Miller’s groundbreaking research has revealed that humans are universally equipped with a capacity for spirituality, and that our brains become more resilient and robust as we engage with healthy spiritual beliefs and practices.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Nick Thorley talk about out how Dr. Miller’s research fundamentally challenges the evangelicalism they inherited, and how through their faith deconstruction the spirituality that has emerged is very similar to the one Dr. Miller is advocating. They also ponder what Dr. Miller’s research means for how they pass spirituality onto their children.

Interview starts at 17m 12s

Image used with permission.

WEBSITE

Lisa Miller

BOOKS

The Awakened Brain: The Psychology of Spirituality

The Spiritual Child: The New Science on Parenting for Health and Lifelong Thriving

QUOTES

“Use the knock at the door: Depression is an invitation to do the most important work of your life.”

“Love of neighbour is a sacred act. How we treat one another. Prayer on Earth. Spirituality in action.”

“Religion is an extraordinary carrier – the prayers, the ceremonies, the texts all strengthen natural spirituality when transmitted through someone who ‘walks the walk.'”

“We are built not to ask narrowly ‘what do I want out of life and what does society need to become?’ but rather to be in relationship with the deeper Source in and through life and ask, “what is life showing me now?'”

We chat with activist and scholar Dr. Robyn Henderson-Espinoza about their journey towards reconnecting with their body, and the role bodies play in dismantling oppression.

Robyn inhabits a non-binary, autistic, trans, Latinx body, and we ask if they were able to find a safe space within church for their embodiment journey, whether the Christianity they inherited needed deconstructing, and whether they could find a home in a more progressive Christianity.

After the interview Tim Nash and Joy Brooks talk about their experiences growing up evangelical and the role that reconnecting with their bodies has played in the deconstruction and ongoing evolution of their faith.

Interview starts at 15m 11s


WEBSITE

Robyn Henderson-Espinoza

BOOKS

Body Becoming: A Path to Our Liberation

Activist Theology

QUOTES

“I don’t feel like I was born in the wrong body; I feel like the way that the world expects me to be is not who I understand myself to be.”

“My body’s been teaching me that I’m enough and that my needs are not too much. My body’s been teaching me that I am perpetually on a journey of becoming.”

“How do we suture the wounds of the world? It’s not through violence. So many of us are tired talking about it. So – how do we do that? And I think it’s through relationship.”

“All forms of supremacy compromise ethical futures. We need a world of interdependence and mutuality. I think that’s what bringing heaven to earth means.”

The last two decades have seen a growing consensus that we have entered a new geological epoch, triggered solely by human behaviour. The anthropocene is an idea with huge implications for how we see ourselves as part of the living planet.

Mark Maslin is Professor of Earth Science at UCL and co-author of The Human Planet.

Catherine Keller is professor of constructive theology at Drew University, New Jersey, and is the author of many books including Facing Apocalypse.

This is an Everybody Now podcast: a series Nomad produces for the public domain, to encourage shared learning and a commons of storytelling. This podcast may be freely uploaded by any podcast onto any feed. Click here to access the files.


BOOKS

Mark Maslin – The Human Planet: How We Created the Anthropocene

Mark Maslin – Climate Change: A Very Short Introduction

Mark Maslin – How To Save Our Planet: The Facts

Catherine Keller – Facing Apocalypse: Climate, Democracy and Other Last Chances: Climate, Democracy, and Other Last Chances

Catherine Keller – Political Theology of the Earth: Our Planetary Emergency and the Struggle for a New Public

After four decades I’m starting to learn about boundaries. My partner came into my life and introduced them to me. The hippy party scene where he’d spent some years taught him about self-respect in a way that Christianity hadn’t for me in a half life time. Quite the opposite in fact – I grew up in a loving evangelical charismatic Christian household, but now see that having boundaries wasn’t encouraged. At church we were told what to do a lot: dance and show your worship; raise your hands up to God; shout out your praise!; let go of your inhibitions; pray out loud in tongues; close your eyes (and those of you who are feeling a certain way stand up to be prayed for); fall over when you’re being prayed for; turn to the person next to you and tell them that God loves them; turn to the person next to you and introduce yourself, and on…

Image used with permission

Then there were freakishly terrifying passages in the Bible telling me that if I carry on deliberately sinning, or if I let my thoughts lead to actions too many times, well then it’s hellfire for me.  As a child I lived in constant low level stress; the worry that I might not ‘get in’, that I might not hear those promised words ‘Well done, good and faithful servant’. I made repeated prayers to God to please don’t let go of me, and felt a grinding worry for non-believing family and friends.

But there was a ‘Get Out of Hell Free’ card – I had to ‘die to myself.’ Denying my selfish desires was vital to nurturing a successful relationship with God – something I longed for. Two tools to help in this struggle were obedience and accountability – so I did my best to obey teachings from parents and church leaders and I kept open, accountable and malleable to guidance and direction. Only now I realise that my sweet and sincere love for God led me to a place where I was vulnerable to bending to others’ wills, suppressing my ‘sinful’ self and allowing my personal boundaries to be trespassed. When I confessed my sins, well-meaning people told me I needed to alter my behaviour. I allowed not-always-appropriate people to know personal details, who would then check up on me, and rebuke me (if fitting) and pray behaviour-inducing prayers over me. Subsequent failure to change induced a shame-cycle of repeated ‘sinning’, feeling like a failure, hiding and lying which felt terrible and only compounded things.

It all came to a head (after so many years, I do wonder why I couldn’t get here earlier) when my second marriage ended, and the church leader and his wife called round one day ‘to love and support me’. Lol. The visit took place shortly after my ex-husband had moved out and I was feeling anxious. Within a few minutes of them arriving, our time together had deteriorated into a conversation rather more interrogatory than supportive. The pair of them seemed to need to make themselves feel better, demanding more information, deeper information than I’d previously given about exactly why my marriage had ended, and they chastised me for not telling them earlier (no doubt so they could try to intervene) given that they are family. I was rapidly manoeuvred outside of my comfort zone, sharing stuff I didn’t plan to share, feeling on the back foot and anxious. Their tenacity and projected authority broke down my boundaries guarding what is private and what is precious and so I shared to the extent where I divulged information about the fact that I’d started seeing someone else, the compatibility of my marital sex life, of myself as a sexual person. I shared this with my pastor. Yes, I told my pastor what I’m like in bed.

After they left there was a big dust cloud all inside my heart and mind. Gradually after the dust settled I started to see a bit more clearly and the throbbing unhappiness and discomfort started to make itself felt. I realised I felt violated as a result of this interaction, and as a result, over the weeks I started to revisit my childhood, my upbringing and my experience of church to understand just why this happened and why I hadn’t been able to stand up to it.

Although I regularly experienced a sense of discomfort I never surfaced the idea that I had boundaries as a human being that needed respecting, first and foremost by me. I’m all for us stepping outside of our comfort zones, and being challenged and lovingly pushed to grow and self-better, and it’s scary and exhilarating. But those aren’t boundaries – boundaries are when your spirit seems to say ‘no’ or ‘not today’ and if we do it anyway we feel out of kilter or compromised, or if we let someone else do it to us we feel invaded. We have a spirit and a conscience and most of us yearn to do good. It’s okay for us to look inside for guidance, and even to find it, inside just us and with God (and a little sprinkling of gentle human feedback).

It was impossible for me to stand up to the church leader that day because no one had ever taught me that I was allowed boundaries. My upbringing paved the way for men (in particular) to walk roughshod over my boundaries, trespassing in all kinds of ways. It led to me only recognising in my forties that I should have boundaries, and not having the skills to ensure they were respected. The pastor’s wife wrote in a letter to me that my encounter with them  ‘was exactly what I needed to hear right now’. Upon reflection perhaps that’s true, perhaps it was time for me to finally see how things needed to change.

– Emma Ellenn

We talk to the hymn-writer John Bell, who is a member of the Iona community, about the roots and traditions of Celtic Christianity, which took shape in the British Isles and modelled a very different way to the Roman church that followed shortly after.

After the interview, Nomad hosts David Blower and Anna Robinson talk about their own experiences of Celtic Spirituality, and the role it’s played in the evolution of their faith.

Interview starts at 14m 40s

Image used with permission

BOOK

Living with the Psalms

QUOTES

“All through the bible you see how God waits until people think they’ve got their image of God right, and then God changes the image.”

“What God would you rather believe in – the one who you never see but you believe began the universe, or the one who has revealed the nature of divinity by sharing the riskiness of life among us?”

Feminist and trauma theologian Karen O’Donnell shares her experiences of repeated reproductive loss. Describing the physical, emotional and spiritual impact, she explores the complexity of faith from the perspective of the miscarrying person. Karen brings thoughtful sensitivity to a reality that has often been ignored and offers her responses to some of the many questions we are likely to encounter in the face of trauma, suffering and grief.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Joy Brooks talk about their experiences of loss, and the role this played in the deconstruction and reconstruction of their faith.

Interview starts at 16m 06s

Image used with permission

PERMISSIONS

Breath Prayer One: During a Miscarriage by Karen O’Donnell from the book The Dark Womb used with permission from SCM Press

BOOKS

The Dark Womb: Re-Conceiving Theology through Reproductive Loss

Feminist Trauma Theologies: Body, Scripture & Church in Critical Perspective

Broken Bodies: The Eucharist, Mary and the Body in Trauma Theology

QUOTES

“If God isn’t to blame for a miscarriage – because God doesn’t make that happen – then conversely and perhaps challengingly, God isn’t to be praised for a successful birth either.”

“Rather than these big thunderbolt interventions into the world, I see much more of a gentle remaining and persuasion of ethical action amongst humans.”

“I find it really difficult to imagine a church space that would be a safe space for post-trauma remaking. It would need to be informed and inclusive. It would need to be based in hospitality and generosity of spirit. It would need to be open to questions and doubts. It would need to be a place that loved people first and foremost and sought their full flourishing – and put that before everything else. And I haven’t found that place. I’ve found good places, but I haven’t found that place.”

Hello beloved listener!

So let me introduce myself first. My name is Gerrianne (you’ve probably got no clue how to pronounce that– that’s okay, however sounds right to you). I’m turning 30 this year. The Netherlands is my passport country, but I live and work in the humanitarian sector in Yemen. So quite literally have been a nomad for the past decade or so. I’m a social introvert, enneagram 9 who loves good food, baking, reading, strong debates and hikes and walks and pilgrimages in nature. So here’s my listener story.

Image used with permission

May 2022

It starts with drying dishes in a friary. Hilfield friary to be exact, where earlier that day the first Gathering Embers retreat had started, organized by Nomad hosts Anna and David. We’d just had the first session, getting introduced to the group and to be quite honest, I’m kind of wondering what the heck I am doing there. The demographic of the group is a little different from what I had expected. It’s been a few emotional weeks with an impactful, though beautiful death in my family and I am asking myself if coming to this retreat wasn’t all a bit too much.

While these thoughts race through my mind, I’m trying to focus on just being present and getting to know my fellow retreat participants. One of them, also with a tea towel in his hands, asks me: “so how did this whole faith shifting journey start for you?”

Good question.

One that I had never really thought about honestly. But I do have quite an immediate answer (which is rare, being an enneagram 9) and it throws me back to an early childhood memory of saying to my grandfather that I wanted to be a pastor when I grew up. (For the Dutch Nomad listener – I grew up in the Christelijk Gereformeerde Kerk – for everyone else, that’s pretty conservative, white, farmer’s community, only an organ, singing psalms and the occasional hymn, no space for women or LGBTQI+ community. You get the picture.) He immediately dismissed it and said: “well, you can’t be, because you are a girl.” As a little girl I moved on pretty quick, several other career options included mayor of a town called Dongeradeel (that just sounds fun in Dutch) and being a teacher became the preferred options. But somehow deep down, that answer felt wrong to me.

So while that initial question around the role of women in church remains in many ways my starting point in terms of asking questions, I never felt a negative space around asking questions growing up. In our family, which I now realize is quite rare, there was always space for debate and questions. There was certainly a view on what was right and wrong, how things ought be done, but there was always space to have open ended questions too. There was space to disagree with each other without that having any consequences on how much we loved each other.

For me the real evidence of that was when my parents let me travel on my own to the US when I was just 15 years old. I participated in an international leadership programme, which didn’t have a particular religious affiliation at all. This was the first community building experience that really opened my eyes to the world and all its glorious and beautiful diversity. I was hooked and was drawn to exploring different countries and cultures.

Fast forward to around 2018.

I’d been living in Uganda for about a year, working for an international NGO responding to the refugee influx from South Sudan as well as doing some other longer term recovery work in post-conflict areas in Uganda around land rights and education. My work? I absolutely loved it. There wasn’t a day that went by without energy and passion for what I got to do. It involved lots of travel all over the country and a wonderful social life alongside it. That involved being active in a non-denominational international church. We met at a school building, and it was all very different from the church I grew up in. It was a space where I felt valued and seen, where I built some real community – both through Sunday services (and extensive lunches afterwards) but also in a home group with the mixed participation of other internationals and nationals from all different faith traditions. It’s a space where I was encouraged to try out leadership roles, in worship and preaching. And although I concluded that that’s probably not for me, it was really helpful to work this through with a pastor that supported women in leadership. It’s around the same time that I got introduced to the Nomad podcast through a friend. I started reading Liz Milani’s ‘The Practice Co’s’ devotions every morning. My faith was already shifting quite drastically. My theology was challenged and changing.

After 3+ years of working in Uganda, the time felt right to transition. I was offered a position in the Yemen team, which I accepted. Starting date: 1st April 2020. Exactly, the pandemic threw that plan a bit off. I ended up working remotely for about 6 months in the Netherlands and moving back in with my sister. Since going back to my childhood church was not an option, with churches being online, I spent my days, like everyone else, at home. I read. A lot. One book stuck out: Sarah Bessey’s ‘Out of sorts’. Although she grew up in a very different faith tradition, she suddenly gave words to the process I had been going through, but couldn’t really give words to up until that point. And also the fellow enneagram 9 vibes are very real with anything this lady says and writes.

So that’s where I have been since. No longer connected to a church community because of my international work setting. I became a more connected Nomad listener, occasionally joining in a conversation in the Lounge, participating in the Book club alongside Anna and David’s contemplations and meditations that became a regular part of my spiritual practice, especially appreciated on the lonely weekends in Yemen.

Back to May 2022, a couple of days before the Gathering Embers retreat started. I am having lunch with the friends I grew up with at church. Most of us have spread out to different churches, we’ve all been on faith shifting journeys in one way or another, and still somehow remain friends. One of them asked me about the retreat I am going on. I literally have no idea about what it will be like and who’s going to be there. She says: “10 years ago we used to call you Google, because you always had all the answers. Now you’ve only got questions left.”

And she is right. I don’t have the answers anymore, just a bunch of questions. But for the time being I am okay with that.

My time in Yemen will be ending in the near future. Living in a war zone is something you can only do for so long before it really takes a toll on all parts of life. I will transition back to the north west European corner of the world. And that raises new questions around community building, my next career steps, relationships and more. And I simply don’t have the answers. Just a bunch of questions.

But then I remind myself that I was once this brave 15-year-old girl, who’d never flown or eaten a pizza before, had a fairly limited vocabulary of English words and decided to step on to a plane to New York City. Completely into the unknown. And that it turned out to be pretty good path of life from that moment onwards. I’m sure the next path in the journey, with all its twists and turns, will be quite interesting too.

– Gerrianne Pennings

Philip Carr-Gomm is a Druid, psychologist and writer, who has a particular interest in combining psychological understanding with spiritual perspectives to help people lead richer, more fulfilled lives. Although his spiritual practice is rooted in Druidry, he believes we have entered an era in which we can move beyond attachments to labels, drawing instead upon the Perennial Tradition, being inspired by the wisdom in all spiritual paths and teachings – following the way of the Universal Mystic.
So he seemed like the idea person to speak with about the ancient tradition of Druidry, and what Christians might learn from it.
After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Anna Robinson talk about their interest in nature based spirituality and the Celtic roots of their Christian faith, and the role this has played in the deconstruction and reconstruction of their faith.

Interview starts at 18m 40s

Image used with permission

WEBSITES

Philip Carr-Gomm

The Order of Bards, Ovates and Druids

The Druidcast

BOOKS

What Do Druids Believe?

Druid Mysteries: Ancient Wisdom for the 21st Century

Seek Teachings Everywhere: Combining Druid Spirituality with Other Traditions

QUOTES

“One of the main ideas in religion and spirituality is, ‘things aren’t what they appear to be.’ However gloomy, uninteresting, or unattractive – apparently – there’s something splendid and glorious and magical and wonderful going on.”

“If you want a living spirituality that works for you and brings you closer to deity or to the deeper truth – or however you want to term it – then it makes sense to me that we don’t want to get stuck on the forms that may have existed in the past; one wants to touch the living heart – as it were – of the spiritual tradition.”

“The closer you get to truth, the more paradoxical it becomes. So, my sense is that at the heart of the universe – the source of all life and spirituality – is love.”

“When you open yourself to the mysteries of nature and the wonders of the natural world, that engenders in itself a sense of humility that comes from that wonder.”

Faith Van Horne left the fundamentalist Pentecostal tradition that she’d grown up in as a young person. Years later, after exploring various spiritualities, she was surprised to find herself drawn back to her Pentecostal roots, allbeit on very different terms. In this podcast we talk to Faith about her academic studies in atonement theories, embodied spirituality, and healing from traumatic experiences.

After the interview, Nomad hosts David Blower and Joy Brooks talk about their own experiences and understanding of Pentecostalism, atonement, power dynamics, healing and mystical experiences.

This episode involves themes of trauma and abuse.

Interview starts at 11m 03s

Image used with permission

QUOTES

“If we’re going to talk about healing and the atonement, what happened to Jesus when he was abused in his body? If there’s a connection there with healing, what does that look like?”

“All of our theology lives in our body, but only a tiny bit we can get out into words. There’s a lot of mystery there that can’t be expressed.”

“It’s only when you have the community of God – the body of Christ – understanding themselves as this universal working in the world that you can really even talk about reconciliation with God. The individual’s always being reconciled within the community and toward the end of bringing Christ’s reconciling work to a bigger space.”

This is a conversation between the priest Karen Rooms and transgender poet, author and educator Jay Hulme about what it’s like for them to be part of an ancient and LGBTQ+ affirming church.

As they recall the story of their developing friendship, their conversation guides us through the pandemic, Jay’s early faith experiences and Karen’s reflections on being a cisgender heterosexual woman entrusted with the care of a diverse and fully inclusive congregation. With humour, insight and creativity they offer a unique perspective on what it could mean to be church.

We have made this conversation public domain, so you are free to turn it into an episode on your own podcast. We ask that you don’t edit the conversation, but please do feel free to add your own introduction and reflections. We also ask that you acknowledge Nomad Podcast.

Click on the download button to access the MP3 and WAV files, and guest images and bios.

Images used with permission.

QUOTES

“‘Coming out’ as a Christian is also part of our discipleship and part of our journey of owning what we really think. And coming out about not conforming, or changing what you think, or thinking differently to the teaching of the church – that’s a constant re-evaluation in my experience of being on this way.” – Karen Rooms

“What makes LGBT Christians feel safe in church? Flags and symbols is the thing that’s at the top of the list.” – Karen Rooms

“I have this whole thing about poetry being indefinable, and not the words, and the space around the words; poetry is the blank page, not the words on it…the words just lead you to the truth of the blank page.” – Jay Hulme

“Liturgy is people doing their best to reach out to something beyond, which is just what a poem is in its own way.” – Jay Hulme

Click on the subscribe button if you’d like to be added to a mailing list to be kept aware of future public domain podcasts.

Priest Karen Rooms and transgender poet, author and educator Jay Hulme describe what it’s like for them to be part of an ancient and LGBTQ+ affirming church. As they recall the story of their developing friendship, their conversation guides us through the pandemic, Jay’s early faith experiences and Karen’s reflections on being a cisgender heterosexual woman entrusted with the care of a diverse and fully inclusive congregation. With humour, insight and creativity they offer a unique perspective on what it could mean to be church.

Conversation starts at 18m 23s

Images used with permission

WEBSITES

Jay Hulme

St Nicholas Church

BOOKS

The Backwater Sermons

Clouds Cannot Cover Us

The Book of Queer Prophets

PERMISSIONS

All of This is Worship by Jay Hulme from the book The Backwater Sermons used with permission from Canterbury Press

QUOTES

“‘Coming out’ as a Christian is also part of our discipleship and part of our journey of owning what we really think. And coming out about not conforming, or changing what you think, or thinking differently to the teaching of the church – that’s a constant re-evaluation in my experience of being on this way.” – Karen Rooms

“What makes LGBT Christians feel safe in church? Flags and symbols is the thing that’s at the top of the list.” – Karen Rooms

“I have this whole thing about poetry being indefinable, and not the words, and the space around the words; poetry is the blank page, not the words on it…the words just lead you to the truth of the blank page.” – Jay Hulme

“Liturgy is people doing their best to reach out to something beyond, which is just what a poem is in its own way.” – Jay Hulme

I grew up in a brethren church in the 70’s and whilst I knew that God loved me unconditionally, I also felt that God was someone who needed to be kept on-side and pleasing him was paramount. When my parents divorced, and my dad subsequently left the church, I realised for the first time in my life that despite their promises, people who once loved you would reject you if you didn’t meet their expectations. I made the assumption that it was the same for God. I became a Christian at age 11, however throughout my teenage years I frequently and anxiously prayed ‘the prayer’ to become a Christian, over and over, for fear that God would reject me. I was terrified of hell and the church did nothing to make me believe I should think differently. Despite my best attempts to be a rebellious teenager I failed miserably, mostly because I feared being anything other than the good Christian girl, and I didn’t want to risk being rejected by God.  

Image used with permission

I married at 20 and returned to the brethren church which my then husband attended, after spending a few years attending a livelier evangelical church, and my rebellious spirit returned. As a feisty feminist, I began to ask questions about faith, mostly their insistence that women could play no part in the services. The eldership told me firmly to stop asking questions. I did not. I realised by the end of my 20s that, despite being a stay-at-home mum at the time, God was calling me into leadership and so I began to push some more. I was rejected, politely, and told that God did not call women into church leadership and to think about helping with the youth work in church, as that was probably what God intended. It wasn’t, and I knew that.  

I began work as a youth worker outside of the church, got myself a diploma and worked in the local community and local school. I was called to the edges, to people I knew my church would not welcome and I began to push more, ask more questions, and was again rejected and told to stop. I began to explore more options and went to Christian youth events, Soul Survivor and the like; this was where I felt more at home. I also met a Christian friend who had the same passion for working with youth outside of the church and we decided to set up a charity together. My church did not support this, and frequently questioned my choices. I kept going, spurred on by a few friends who supported me, although I frequently felt like I did not fit. 

My marriage ended in my late 30’s and I became a single parent and, after falling out with my church because of their lack of support to my two teenage boys, I finally left. I began attending an Anglican church of Wales, and found it to be a safe place, I even began to explore the possibility of ordination. It was during this time that I experienced several years of what can only be described as spiritual and emotional abuse from my friend and work colleague which traumatised me to the point of breakdown. The friendship ended, and I was subsequently rejected from the ordination process. I left the Anglican church to attend an AOG church which I left after two years because of the spiritually abusive nature of the leadership. 

I went nowhere for 3 years, I remarried and was happy not attending church, until my new husband felt God telling him to go to church. I reluctantly went with him, and we began attending a charismatic evangelical church where a friend of mine was the pastor and knew my history. He was supportive and sympathetic and allowed me to question and for the first time in a long time I felt real freedom in church. He offered me a job with the church, and despite all my questions and doubts I took it. 

During this time, I began listening to the Nomad Podcast. I realised that my questions were not unusual, and I was not alone. I began to unpick a lot of the stuff I had learned to be true to that point. I knew the church was wrong on the issue of women, but I had no idea of all the other ways the church had controlled my behaviour through poor theology. I no longer fear hell, as for me it does not exist, I now think of myself as a universalist, I also no longer fear disappointing an angry God who has only shown me love through the work and life of Jesus. 

I have now left that church to move to a new area and currently I am not attending a church regularly. I now work as a pioneer for the Anglican church setting up fresh expressions of church within the local community. I believe these are more relevant to the local context than the traditional church is, and I want to make sure that people I meet know that they are loved and accepted by a divine creator God who will never reject them, and who will always love them, whoever they are. 

The jury is out as to whether I will find myself belonging to a traditional church full time again. I miss the friendships that belonging to a church brings, but I do not miss the misogyny, the dodgy theology or the unrealistic expectations that so often comes along with it. I still have lots of questions and I don’t fully understand how to describe my own deconstruction. There are so many differing aspects of theology that I haven’t fully grasped. I am however thankful that Nomad is helping me gain more knowledge and understanding in how to get to know the Divine, and myself, better. 

– Lisa Andradez

We chat with author of With All Your Mind: Autism and the Church, Erin Burnett about her personal experience and research into autism and the unique ways Christians with autism understand and experience God.
We ask her why she was initially attracted to more fundamentalist expressions of Christianity, what triggered her deconstruction, and why she’s now more at home in progressive Christian spaces.

After the interview Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Joy Brooks reflect on what neurotypical people can learn from the ways people with autism experience the world and spirituality.

Interviews starts at 13m 45s

Image used with permission

WEBSITE

Erin Burnett

BOOKS & ARTICLES

With All Your Mind: Autism and the Church

Religious, but not Spiritual: The link between Autism and Progressive Christianity

Different, not less: Pastoral Care of Autistic Adults within Christian Churches

QUOTES

“A lot of the core characteristics like social difficulties and intense interests will be relatable to almost everyone with autism, but at the same time, it’s also really important to emphasize that I can only speak about my own experience. It’s often said that, ‘If you’ve met one person with autism, you’ve met one person with autism.'”

“Some people like what’s called ‘identity first’ – which is ‘autistic person’ – because that means autism is a part of their identity; it’s who they are, it’s not something to be ashamed of. whereas ‘person first’ language – which is ‘person with autism’ – it recognize that autism is just one of the many things that can make up an individual; so, it’s part of them but doesn’t define them.”

“Whenever I try to describe precisely how I view religion, I often flip the phrase, ‘spiritual but not religious,’ and instead I say, ‘I am religious, but not spiritual.'”

“Churches that aren’t afraid to ask hard questions – that aren’t afraid to use human reason when interpreting scripture – can be a lot more freeing for autistic people.”

I think a lot of my life has been about searching for a sense of belonging. In most communities I think to myself, “I kind of fit here, but not quite”. I feel this about the Nomad community too. I feel I have a lot in common with the people I’ve encountered, virtually and in real life, but also that I’m different in at least two ways –  firstly that I’m not, and never have been, an Evangelical, and secondly that I kind of “deconstructed” pretty early on in life, and since about seventeen, I have been “reconstructing”.

Image used with permission

I grew up in a deprived neighbourhood in the Blackcountry and was raised in the “catholic” side of the Church of England – lots of bells and smells. My dad was a vicar and we went to church and Sunday school every week. But probably about age ten I began to have serious doubts. What does “Christ died for our sins” actually mean? Does Jesus saying “no one comes to the Father except by me” mean that my Muslim, Sikh, Hindu, and atheist friends from school are going to hell? If Jesus was God, who was he praying to when he prayed? Though I struggled with these questions I still experienced God, especially in the quiet moments after communion when I could rest my head on the wooden pew and listen to the soft music.

Once a year my parents would ask me if I wanted to join the confirmation class, and once a year I squirmed and made up some excuse as to why I didn’t. The last thing I was feeling was “confirmed” in my faith, I was questioning everything. I was also discovering as a teenager, in the secret shame of my heart, that I was attracted to boys.

When I was seventeen I went on a school trip to the Taizé community in France, and one night in that massive church, immersed in the deep chanting, I had a deep experience of the love of God. That experience was both a calling and a healing. God outed me. God allowed me to say in my own mind “I am bisexual” (it would be another year before I would say it out loud). And since that moment I can honestly say I have known deep down that God loves me and God loves my queerness. And that God, in their own beautiful playful way, is queer too.

I still felt religiously homeless though. I fell in and out of Anglicanism, but eventually could not live with the institutional homophobia. I explored Quakerism, and indeed even dated a guy I met at the Quaker Meeting. But I eventually settled on the Unitarian church, a liberal church that was welcoming to the LGBT+ community and where Jesus was a human, not a God. I remember the first time I attended being enthralled by hearing the service leader read scriptures from the Baha’i faith, “The earth is one country, and humanity its citizens.” One God. One Earth. One Love. Simples!

At this point I went to Boston in the States to get a master’s degree in theology. In many ways I think this experience “radicalised” me as I was exposed to feminist and queer perspectives, liberation theology, eco-theology and the thought of the African American church. I began, slowly, to see that my liberal intellectual journey was really rooted in my white western privilege. And I began, slowly, to see faith not as an intellectual exercise, but as a tool for liberation of the self and of society.

When I returned to the UK I began to train as a minister in the Unitarian church, and then I spent nine happy years as minister of a church in Bolton. They were a small friendly church, and outward looking enough to open up the church in the middle of the night as a base for Street Angels to help out the drunk people falling out of the nightclubs on our street. My proudest moment was performing our first same sex marriage, after I had spent years campaigning for this. But I eventually felt the call to move on.

I moved to Cardiff in 2017 to pastor a tiny Unitarian congregation and work as a pioneer minister in the city. I soon connected with a local community arts project run by a Buddhist and have been working with them ever since. We share many values and approaches.

In recent years I have also become more and more aware of the climate crisis. A lot of my thinking now is framed by the context of this crisis. I’m not interested in getting “bums on seats” in churches – I’m interested in spiritual revolution. I’m interested in what spiritual practices will transform us and enable us to dismantle the capitalism and colonialism that are the root causes of this crisis. I have been involved in Extinction Rebellion but I’ve become more disillusioned with how white and privileged that crowd is. The mantra of “doing it for our grandchildren” betrays a blindness towards the fact that people in the global south are already dealing with this crisis, and the fact that the climate crisis is just another aspect of capitalistic colonialism that has been exploiting them for centuries.

Prayer is more important to me than ever. I believe in the power of (contemplative) prayer to displace the ego, and recentre us towards radical values, and a radical God. I often pray simultaneously with my Buddhist colleague and neighbour, and we mentally hold each other, and others in deep spiritual solidarity. As I work in more and more interfaith ways every day I also feel more deeply committed to a radical Christian faith.

Right now in some ways I feel life is more uncertain than ever and yet I feel deeply committed to some things. I feel committed to my inner city multicultural Cardiff neighbourhood, and I assume I’m going to live here for the rest of my life. I am a born-again Welsh nationalist as I see the radical potential for small countries to create a different sort of society. I am committed to acting like we are in a climate crisis, because we are, though I have no idea what that is going to mean. I am committed to daily contemplative prayer.

Today I identify most strongly as a Universalist Christian, not just because I disbelieve in hell (I never believed in it, and I’m pretty agnostic about the afterlife in any case) but because I do believe in a universal and all-encompassing Love that holds it all together, and I believe it is possible to connect with this Love through the practice of prayer. I am also very inspired by the historic American Universalist movement (as well as all kinds of other influences – radical Welsh Unitarianism, Polish Anabaptists, Ignatian spirituality, Franciscans, Quakers, Sufis, and Buddhists).

I do not have a certain dogmatic faith. But I also see revelling in my uncertainty as a privilege. We live in critical times and I know I need the kind of spirituality that will feed me in a time of crisis and power me for radical action. It’s that kind of spirituality that I’m, imperfectly, trying to practice.

– Stephen Lingwood

In this Devotional podcast, psychologist and theologian Richard Beck explores what it means to take sides without becoming hardened, and how he remains hopeful in a world on fire.

Nomad produces devotional podcasts like this one every month. To access them simply make a small monthly donation through Nomad’s membership platform or Patreon.

We also produce group discussion questions to help you and your community dig deeper into the issues raised in the devotionals.

Image used with permission

SONG LYRICS

Sing o Hills

Sing o hills
Quietly goes it

Let the groans
Under the winds
Turn to chanting
Plain and long
Long and meandering

Do you feel it 
Through the ground
Through your two knees
There is a sound
Beneath all hearing

Do you feel 
The hidden heartbeat 
Of the ground
As you lay down
Upon her earthen chest

Ready, she, to
Open the 
Abyss for all the 
Violence that
Amasses

Gaping wide to
Swallow up
The torrents that have 
Hammered every 
Woman

Gaping wide to
Take back all the
Beasts that 
Tore the oil from her
Bosom

Gaping wide to
Take down into
Fire the armoured
Chariots of
Conquerors

Gaping wide to
Sing a new song
Up into the
Skies toward the
Leaves on the trees

And the old sea roars and everything in it
And the teeming world and all who live in it
And the waters clap their fierce ancient hands
Let the hills sing the song they have been keeping
And the waters clap their fierce ancient hands
Let the hills sing the song thats down there sleeping
Because it’s coming

WEBSITE

Experimental Theology

BOOKS

The Slavery of Death

Hunting Magic Eels: Recovering an Enchanted Faith in a Skeptical Age

Stranger God: Welcoming Jesus in Disguise

Unclean: Meditations on Purity, Hospitality, and Mortality

Reviving Old Scratch: Demons and the Devil for Doubters and the Disenchanted

QUOTES

“One thing I’d like to say about taking sides is it’s inevitable. Life is a moral drama and we are constantly discerning the light in the darkness. And that’s for the religious and the irreligious. Everybody steps into the day – looks at the news, looks at world events, looks at their own choices in life – and is asking themselves, ‘What’s the right thing to do here?’”

“Even though we make strong moral discernments about what is good and evil – what is right and what is wrong – our response to those choosing sides has to be a posture of love.”

“Hope is a virtue that has to be formed; it’s hard-earned. It’s not just me waking up in the morning and trying to reach for a silver lining. It’s not me engaged in some sort of wishful thinking. It flows out of character. So – hope has to be practiced.”

“I think things like artistic expression help us. They help us expand the bandwidth. They help us see hopeful things: the flower growing through the crack of the concrete. That allows us to re-sacralize our experiences. So, we push against the disenchantment of the materialism through re-sacralizing our lives through different attentional processes.”

DISCUSSION QUESTIONS

“Hope in a World on Fire” Qs

I was brought up in the Anglican church tradition and as a child, I understood God to be a loving, ever-present father figure. God wasn’t particularly threatening to me as a child and God was just always ‘there’ and wanted me to be good or ‘live well’.

Christian faith continued to be important to me but during my teen and 20s, there were experiences and some religious teaching that planted seeds of doubt and fear which haunted me into adulthood.

In my early teens, I became involved in charismatic, evangelical youth groups through a boyfriend. These groups were really exciting and eye-opening: a whole new culture! I felt a sense of belonging and I had deep, committed friendships. I liked how God seemed to talk directly to us in words and pictures and how Bible verses seemed to have direct relevance to our own situations.

There were things that happened that frightened me as well. At 14 years old, I was given a book by a youth leader about blaspheming against the Holy Spirit being the ‘unforgiveable sin’ and being damned to hell for eternity. Around about the same time, I watched a graphic theatre production called ‘Heaven’s Gate, Hell’s Flames’ which had depictions of the ‘unsaved’ dying in untimely accidents and being dragged off to hell by demons. In my late teens, a different youth camp leader gave me a book called ‘The Path to Hell’ which cemented my fear and overwhelming responsibility to try to share the (fundamentalist/conservative) gospel and endeavour to convince whoever would listen. Being embarrassed and overwhelmed by the enormity of the task, I have always felt guilty about never leading anyone to ‘giving their life to Jesus’. Nearly 30 years later, I can remember the bleak terror that often gripped me. I could not tell anyone such was the fear of it being true and irrevocable.

After completing a music degree and teacher training, I worked for an evangelical Christian charity. We performed in a Christian band and taught RE lessons around schools in tough areas. Despite actually doing some very worthwhile work in challenging communities, behind the scenes, it was really important that our behaviour would not cause a ‘stumbling block’ to unbelievers because we were personally accountable if we were to dissuade them from the faith. Acting on a frantic sense of ‘time running out’, I allowed myself to be placed in numerous dangerous situations in the name of saving souls. I used to worry morbidly about random strangers that I should be preaching to. What if I was their only chance for salvation?

I was also required to sign a contract forbidding any physical relationship or even being alone in the same room as my boyfriend. We were basically being groomed for marriage but didn’t get to know each other properly. (Having already been asked to make a vow of chastity at the age of about 15 at a youth event, I didn’t really need to sign anything!) The marriage failed in a very traumatic divorce and I have since found out that we were not the only young Christian couple to have encountered marital problems.

Despite the fear and doubts, faith and the quiet presence of the Divine (the universal Christ) has been a strength to me and given me hope in the hard times although I am still working out what faith now means to me. I still think of myself as a Christian but my understanding of faith and God has been blown apart in recent years and I want to distance myself from exclusionist views and be free from fear and prejudice.

I have several vivid mental images about being taken into a green space of freedom, seeds being planted, moving through seasons and Spring approaching and being released from a cage. I believe these are all gifts of Love to me from God.

Learning about the Enneagram has been a very helpful tool for me to make sense of the past. What if I had known about my type-tendency towards fear, loyalty and self-doubt? Could I have loosened those patterns and found my inner wisdom at a younger age? What if I had also been aware of the growth possible through my Enneagram type: courage and faith, accepting and making peace with mystery and living with difficult questions? Would it have changed the path I followed? This is another unknown but narrative Enneagram work has helped me to accept and tell my story with curiosity and self-compassion. This is the crux of what I wish to offer others through my Enneagram teaching, coaching and writing.

The same Father-God who was present in childhood, still walks alongside me today – although I often relate to Her as Mother-God. I still want to follow The Way of Jesus but without being ‘religious’ or afraid.

Recently, I have rekindled my violin solo performing – just for fun. I have found huge meaning, emotional expression and connection through my music in a way that I didn’t when I was younger.

By joining the ‘Nomads’ tribe, I have realised that there are many of us walking this path although we do not always see each other.

Shalom friends.

– Helen Calder

Nomad hosts Anna Robinson and Joy Brooks have a conversation about the challenges of joys of experiencing a shifting faith, their ambivalence to the word deconstruction, the deconstruction groups they’ve been hosting and what they’ve learnt from them. 
If you’d like to be part of one of these group, contact Anna through her website.

Images used with permission

WEBSITES

Anna Robinson

Joy Brooks

QUOTES

“When our faith feels like it’s unravelling, the reason we come to that place is so unique –  the stories, the process of getting there. There might be that there are themes that draw us all together, but every single story is so different. And I find that fascinating, that we find ourselves in a similar place together, but there are so many different reasons that brought us there.” – Joy Brooks

“There aren’t really words for that kind of connection that you end up forming with people when you’re able to be vulnerable and feel safe.” – Joy Brooks

“I don’t know where I’d be if there weren’t people in my life that had that ability and skill to be able to accept me in my anger and in my rage, as much as in my disappointment and frustration and sadness, and also in my joy and happiness. Having people who can just accept me as I am – a place to belong authentically – is so important.” – Anna Robinson

“It’s difficult to lead people or facilitate people if you haven’t at least thought, grappled, dwelt in a certain place, and if you haven’t embraced mystery and you’re not comfortable with doubt, then it’s hard to create spaces for other people to feel safe.” – Anna Robinson

We can get quite far through a story thinking one thing, to then find out something significant which reinterprets and makes sense of everything that has gone before.

I came to an evangelical expression of faith in 1986 aged 13. Full of zeal, I’d avidly read scripture daily, pray, and be prepared to use Scripture with force in discussion with anyone who needed a dose of Biblical literalism.

In 1992 I began an honours degree in theology, leaving after the first year due to crippling depression and suicidal ideation. I count that year in an evangelical college as the most soul crushing time of my life.

Image used with permission

In 1996 I picked up my degree in theology. I did really well in some areas. Wanting to be relevant with my faith, and plumb an interest in others’ belief in extra-terrestrial life and associated phenomena, with The X-Files at peak interest, and as the year 2000 approached, I wrote my final dissertation concerning a spectrum of Christian faith responses.

During a placement to a large Pentecostal church, I’d happily talk about that dissertation. Most Christian faith responses to the possibility of extra-terrestrial life feel threatened by it. Phenomena are because of demons. They’ve become technologically savvy to lead people away from Jesus. Maybe demons are creating a hybrid race with humans – like the Nephilim before Noah’s Flood (in their thinking). Other Christians take a social science, or astronomically informed response to these phenomena and ruminations.

It ought not have been a surprise then, that my report from the placement had the phrase “I am very concerned with Tim’s interest in Aliens”. My supervisor for the thesis tried to throw me off that line of study, but I appealed and went on to get different supervisors. I received a top mark for the dissertation, some speaking invites, and an afternoon phone-in discussion on UK Christian radio.

I find it hard to deliberately alienate people from me. During that placement I gave the sermon one Sunday morning. I preached on the letter to Philemon and encouragement. The minister picked me up on “not being challenging enough” – that is, not making people feel bad about the sin in their lives and where they needed to repent.

During that final year of college, there had been a marked shift in worship and theology. The services became noisier. “Name it and claim it”, “believe it and receive it” prosperity doctrine became much more central. And I found myself slipping out of services most weeks, soon after they began, feeling estranged.

While a farcical and unsuccessful interview for ministry left me distressed, I’d begun to appreciate a more mellow expression of faith, finding strong resonance in the Celtic Christian approach. After the degree I went to an Anglican Church, having had placements there, and applied for ministry.

To prepare for my possible acceptance for ministerial training, I had an interview at another college. When asked what my gifts were, I floored the gentle older faculty member, when I replied “I don’t have any”.

September 1999 I attended a selection conference. It felt very intense, spending a lot of time with others, having to be on my very best behaviour, unless alone. A range of interviews, some feeling adversarial. Psychometric tests left me strangely distressed. Mealtimes in which I was the only one who dined with my fork not being upside down. When the debrief came in via the bishop, it gave a tsunami of self loathing, a feeling of rejection on an ontological level that washed away any perceived sense of vocation. “What a fraud”. I couldn’t go to church and ceased expression of faith for about six years.

Eventually I came to a place of being prepared to go to church again. Eventually applying for non-stipendiary ministry, I went before a selection panel. I remember my long awkward silences. A sense of fraud overwhelmed me, that if I were to push my conviction of a ministerial vocation, that it would constitute manipulation. At that point, I had over 10 years of placements, a practice-based degree and completed the Foundations for Ministry Course.  Again unsuccessful, any expression of faith imploded. The church couldn’t accommodate me anywhere. Anything and everything was not good enough.

In terms of faith, since then, I’ve stumbled like, well, a Nomad, in the post-Christendom wilderness, with some resonance to the Person and Teachings of Jesus, looking for signs of hope, but incredibly wary of getting involved following further trauma and trolling in what I’d believed to be a safe online space for Christians who had a hunger for a different approach.

In that time, the blessing of having three autistic children eventually pointed the finger to me considering, and then knowing, that I am also autistic.

I’ve had struggles with relationships and employment, all consistent with the not-so-good aspects of being autistic. After nearly four years on a waiting list for assessment, it came in February 2022. With a six hour session and nearly two hours for my mother about my early years, I received a diagnosis of Autistic Spectrum Condition (not Disorder, not Asperger’s, not High-Functioning). I don’t have autism, I am autistic. It defines everything I am. It is a completely different operating system.

What is Autism? The medical literature describes it as difficulties with social communication, social interaction and social imagination. What does that actually mean?

Autism seems to be popularly (mis)understood as being about deficits. It’s actually more about difference. It might be a deficit, or it might be a surplus, on a wide range of sensory, social and communication factors, with strengths, and also challenges. Autism accounts for my strengths (I am aware of them, now, thankfully), and challenges.

I can have a sense of being a fraud, never good enough, not deserving of things – which leads to self-sabotage. A hint or possibility of being rejected (relationships, work, social situations) gives a tsunami of self loathing and desire to be alone. How much more so when it actually happens. All these inform my struggles with faith and vocation.

A common incorrect assumption about autistics is that we have no or little empathy. When you get to know most autistics, the fader-volume for empathy is actually turned up louder than most people. The best way to deal with too loud an input is to turn down the master output and act as if there isn’t an issue. But something will give at some point, somewhere.

I am very empathetic. As a result, I give customer service second-to-none in employment. I’ve taken some family funerals which have been appreciated for their sensitivity and consideration.

I am very good at organising and presenting information and content. I’ve won awards as a tour guide. I’ve done well in my degrees (honours in Theology, masters in TV Documentary Production). I’ve written a book. I’ve done local community radio which was well received.

I am only just scratching the surface here about faith and autism. We are not “all a bit autistic”. If you think someone “doesn’t look autistic”, well, what might you expect an autistic person to look like? No two are exactly the same.

We might have sung the line in church,  ”I’d just like to thank you for making me ME”. Lady Gaga brings that to a much wider application,

Whether life’s disabilities left you outcast, bullied, or teased

Rejoice and love yourself today

‘Cause, baby, you were born this way

Scripture points us to each of us being shaped from birth

I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.” (New International Version) Psalm 139:14

Finally, a helpful quote from a politician advocating for better prospects for Autistics,

Autism isn’t a disease, shouldn’t be seen as a problem, in many cases it’s a gift; the human brain in it’s different permutations is an extraordinary thing, and people with autism have so much to offer.”

Robert Buckland MP, BBC News Podcast 9th December 2021.

– Tim Prevett

In this episode we chat with native American, author, songwriter and storyteller, Terry Wildman. Terry was also the lead translator and general editor of the First Nations Bible, a fascinating project that produced a translation of the New Testament that reflects the language, symbolism and rituals of native peoples.
So we ask Terry to unpack indigenous spirituality for us, and to reflect on how the Church has historically treated native peoples, how this triggered his deconstruction and the role an indigenous worldview and spirituality played in the reconstruction of his faith.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Nick Thorley reflects on what they find attractive about indigenous spirituality, and what it might mean to explore their own spiritual roots.

Interview starts at 17m 56s

Image used with permission

WEBSITE

First Nations Version

BOOK

First Nations Version

QUOTES

“In our weakness – that’s how we connect to each other.”

“Native American stories and storytellers told the stories in traditional ways, but the stories were always told in a way that was unique to the storyteller and meaningful to the listeners. They drew from history, from tradition, and from their own experience. A storyteller ensures that the essence of the story is preserved – without the need to present a strict word-for-word recital of that story. And so I began to see that all four Gospels all presented the story of Jesus that way.”

“The ‘Good Road’ is a way of life; it’s a way that has been marked out. That’s what a road is – it’s a path that has been established. And we walk our lives in harmony with the Creator and with one another by walking in these ways.”

“I’ve seen a lot of places where reconciliation has taken place, and sometimes with differing successes. What I want to see long-term – it’s not just making an apology, it’s not just making an acknowledgment, it’s how do we restore these relationships?”

In this episode we speak with author and director of creative writing at Alma College, Sophfronia Scott. We speak with Sophfronia about how her faith has been shaped by the author, monk and mystic, Thomas Merton.
Having struggled to connect with Merton through his autobiography, Sophfronia immersed herself in his journals, and there she found a mentor, friend and kindred Spirit. So we ask her what we can learnt from Merton about being “spiritual but not religious”, the relationship between action and contemplation, inner work, sexuality and more.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Anna Robinson reflect on how the life and theology of Merton might shape their own faith journey.

Interview starts at 15m 36s

Image used with permission

WEBSITE

Sophfronia Scott

BOOK

The Seeker and the Monk: Everyday Conversations with Thomas Merton

QUOTES

“‘Church’ is not one thing. It is about finding a space where you feel supported in your faith and in the exploration of your spirituality. That search is not going to be easy. But I think it’s worth the effort.”

“That is a key aspect of meditation – to recognize your thoughts and to see what it is, to look at it, and to let it go.”

“They say children are more resilient than we realize; it is true. If we get out of the way and listen to them – and help them on the path that they are already walking – we can just learn so much.”

“I don’t think it’s valuable to look at the quality of a death. It’s important to look at the life and what we learn from the way that someone lived their life.”

I grew up in the North-Eastern Industrial town of Hartlepool, I was a child of the 50s, just about at the end of food rationing after the War.

The early years were tumultuous, suffering three near-death experiences by the time I was Eight years of age. I think because of this I was very reclusive. I hated school, but loved the Summer Holidays, when I’d hide away and read Secret Seven books. I had a couple of friends who I’d see intermittently during the holidays, but really it was my own company that I desired.

In those early years, my Dad would tell me stories about his Army days, during WW2. When I look back, I see his influence on me now, as a writer. (He was in the 6th Airborne Division, 1st Battalion, The Royal Ulster Rifles and at aged Eighteen, he was catapulted into the War in March 1945, for Operation Varsity).

In my early teens I attended Confirmation Classes and was Confirmed into the Anglican Church, I think at the age of 14. I remember the Bishop praying for me and my body shaking. From this came a prayer, that if god existed and wasn’t just an inanimate object, but one I may be able to connect with and have a relationship with, then I was in!

Yes, desperately naïve, but I was in search of something deeper and more intimate. It’s interesting that ‘intimacy’ has always been my lodestar.

And then it came to pass, that at aged 17, my sister nagged me to go to church and ‘hear the gospel’. I resisted for a while, but then relented, hoping it would get her off my back. Yes, my second naivety!

I became a Christian and went to a Mission Hall church, which was very fundamentalist. It wasn’t long before I came into conflict with the church leadership and not because of any theological disagreement or sexual impropriety with the young girls at the church, but because I wanted to go to Greenbelt.

Let’s simplify this next bit otherwise I will give Tolstoy a run for his money, as far as number of words go.

I went to Greenbelt. Loved it. It sparked a love of the Arts in me and it was from that point on that my life’s direction was set. However, when I got back to my fundamentalist brothers and sisters, I was the target of their shenanigans. Secretly they had set up a church business meeting and when I got there, I found that I was the only item on the agenda.

Geoff was informed that he would be watched, to see if his life exhibited any signs of ‘satanic influences’. Eventually, I left, but it was very traumatic.

I moved on to various churches, unperturbed and feeling I was actually finding out more about god through the trouble and strife of it all and was determined to continue this journey.

I then, whilst still in Hartlepool, came across a Curate who was new to the town. I was just amazed that someone of this calibre was in my home town and was a Reformational Philosopher. (Funny how these things work, isn’t it?!)

And so, it’s here that the next shift occurs and I leave behind the barbs of fundamentalism, finding the fences way too narrowly placed and embraced what I perceived to be a more expansive worldview.

Richard Russell was his name. He started giving me books to read. No not American stuff like The Late Great Planet Earth, but Kant and Hegel. I would read this stuff and then ask a thousand questions about them. He then gave me a copy of Calvin Seerveld’s ‘Rainbows for the Fallen World’, HR Rookmaaker’s ‘Modern Art and the Death of a Culture’ along with a book by Herman Dooyeweerd called ‘Roots of Western Culture’.

Richard said to me, “You have a brain. Why don’t you use it?” It was a little after this that I left Hartlepool, with my wife Jeanette and a little bundle of joy, aged 15 months old, called Mark. I had applied to attend Bristol Polytechnic and was successful, I think due to a great reference from Richard.

I studied Art History, toured lots of Galleries in Europe and my heart was set on fire for the arts.

In Bristol we attended an Anglican Church with a very strong missionary outlook, save for, you guessed it, the Arts. When I spoke to the leaders about my calling, I was met with both doubt and suspicion, as well as the usual ‘give it up and find a proper job’, ‘if god was truly in it, you’d have been successful by now’ and lastly ‘it’s unbiblical for a man not to be the leader of his family and the main wage-earner’.

Gradually it wore me down, but not before I had started an Arts Mentoring Group in the City. This occurred after the leadership approached me as ‘the arts guy’, to help with an art student who was having problems at UWE, (Bower Ashton) who had been told that her ‘faith was inappropriate for a student at that college’. Yeah, Liberal Arts!

Through all of this, I had learnt the value of resilience and would not give up my work in the Arts. And so, after speaking at the Christian Union, the Mentoring Group started in earnest. In the end we had about 70 artists on the mailing list, of which 40 would turn up for a quarterly meeting we called the ‘Tree House’. Here, artists presented their work, including performance poetry, dance, live music and film.

It was during this period that I wrote four books about the arts and mentoring, along with three short films, one of which saw me and my DP go to Glendale, California, for a film festival.

The Mentoring lasted for 15 years. In the latter stages I was also an Arts Coordinator at another City Centre Church, but was sacked for not bringing enough money into the coffers. There’s that money thing again!

This led me to working as a writer full-time, thanks to Jeanette’s kindness and support. But I left the Anglican Church, pretty sick of having to defend myself against all sorts of negativity. I am now happy and churchless.

It was then that I began, what for me was another conversion into a more mystical faith, urged on by the likes of Rob Bell, Alexander Shaia, Richard Rohr and Cynthia Bourgeault. My worldview expanded again and this time I’m happy to say that I now have a greater sense of intimacy with the Divine and feel content in that, as I launch my first novel into the world, “0w1:believe”.

It turns out that politically I am now an Anarchist, for which thanks also goes to my study of Daoism and my understanding of Apocalyptic literature. I don’t see this as in opposition to the Scriptures, whatever that now means, but more of a complimentary development, which is probably the focus for another time.  

I’m of course open to your questions and have to say that I have found resilience and persistence to be the best gifts for an artist to have. Anyway, this is only half of the story…    

– Geoff Hall

In this episode we chat with clinical social worker and a trauma-informed coach, Brian Peck. Brian grew up in a fundamentalist Christian church and upon leaving he began to realise the trauma this had caused, which triggered his faith deconstrcution. He now specialises in helping people work through their experiences of religious trauma.
So we talk to Brian about why religious spaces seem predisposed to traumatic experiences, what red flags we should be looking out for, how we can protect ourselves, how we can navigate relationships if we feel we have to leave, and many other things.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Joy Brooks reflect on their own experiences of religious trauma, and how this has shaped their subsequent faith journey.

Interview starts at 10m 52s


WEBSITE

Room to Thrive

QUOTES

“Christianity shaped much of my early life, but the label is no longer valuable to me. I think, somewhat ironically, I’m more Christ-like now than I was as a believer. It’s interesting how when you no longer feel compelled to behave or believe certain things you can more fully embrace your humanity. And for me that is a more affirming, compassionate way of being in the world.”

“When we think about how we believe, it’s how tightly are we holding to these beliefs? Are we able to believe something with some flexibility? Are we able to consider how a belief functions in the world versus is it true or not?”

“‘Adverse religious experiences’ we define as any experience of religious belief, practice or structure that undermines an individual’s sense of safety or autonomy, and/or negatively impacts their physical, social, emotional, relational, or psychological well-being.”

“Resolving trauma is completing that unresolved survival response.”

I was raised a nominal Catholic in Texas, the ultra conservative Bible Belt of the U.S. I thought all I got from Catholicism was guilt and the legalism that I learned from things like needing to go to confession after sinning to avoid hell. Dipping a finger in the holy water and doing the sign of the cross at mass was a ritual that just seemed like simple unconsidered superstition. I learned that God was everywhere, though as a kid that just meant He was watching me from afar and saw when I sinned.

Image used with permission

I was always searching, pouring over the lyrics of my favourite music and flipping through novels seeking true meaning and real purpose of life. I hoped the military would send me to Japan where I had a vague curiosity and keenness about spirituality and eastern mysticism. I studied world religions, my favourite university course, but it didn’t connect with my heart or stir anything deep. I met an older colleague who was passionate about his Christian faith and the way he handled conflict with his young children spoke to me deeply and made an impression that I remember to this day. I don’t remember what he said about God or the Bible or salvation, but I wanted what I saw that he had in his family life. Sent to the Gulf with Desert Storm, I remember imagining myself coming to the end of myself and praying to become a Christian. I didn’t, but the stars in the desert night sky were unbelievable. I found a second hand book and thought I noticed a famous name on the cover so I gave it a read. I thought it was T. S. Elliot (poet, I couldn’t remember?) but the title also got my attention: ‘Mere Christianity’. C. S. Lewis’ passion and obvious intelligence gave me hope that giving my life to the Lord didn’t mean I had to turn off my brain. All I needed was a bold evangelistic colleague to challenge me as to why I wasn’t a Christian (and if I died today, was I sure I’d go to heaven?). I prayed the prayer and I knew my life would never be the same.

About then I was reassigned to England so I looked for my first church to really join properly. I found one that was charismatic, evangelistic, Bible based and had a love for the prophetic, equipping leaders, believing in people and planting churches. But what spoke to me the most was the first time I visited on a Sunday I saw some ‘dodgy looking youth’ sitting near the back with piercings and tattoos even though there were many ‘boring’ and ‘old middle class’ folks’ making up most of the congregation. I noticed they did a lot of singing at the start of every meeting so I came late to be in time for the preach but soon learned in the sermons about worship and its importance. I consumed everything that was being taught. I served enthusiastically and learned from as many people as I could. I wasn’t yet thirty and I loved that there were so many answers and so much confidence to be had in the black and white Bible interpretations for so many things in life. We had an evangelistic crusade in our area where a sermon touted the Bible as a handbook for life. It was so comforting to have so many answers but to this day I am glad that I was learning that the most important things were that God loves me (and everyone) and that grace is this mysterious and seemingly illogical and even unfair force of how God relates to us and how we can be with each other. As I participated in leadership training and absorbed as much as I could I tried to grasp forgiveness and servanthood and generosity, the concept of paradoxes appealed to me somewhere in the back of my mind. Verses mentioning that ‘the first shall be last’ and that we have to ‘lose our lives to find it’ appealed to me in ways that I didn’t hear about in sermons or read about in my Christian self help books. These were the seeds of mysticism that were always there but didn’t get cultivated. With hindsight I see the ‘move of the Holy Spirit’ and the ‘Toronto Blessing’ were mystical in their own way. We had leaders who were wise and not naive; they were hungry to meet God. They practised what they preached when it came to being open to meet God and follow and obey even beyond what we can understand. The vocabulary was His Spirit calling out to ours and the ‘Holy Spirit’s leading’ and ‘being still and knowing He is God’. My doubts and suspicion kept me from falling over when prayed for, but now I can see times like this, as well as closing our eyes and raising our hands in worship, as embodied ways of reaching to connect with the Divine in ways that surpassed understanding. These were my foundations and precursors to mysticism. Later practising experiencing God beyond my enlightenment influenced western brain became my practice, though it is still awkward and fumbly.

Helping start a church plant was the centre of my life (although my ever-loving wife kept me from being completely obsessed). We became a student church and I loved the experimentation, challenging the status quo, lack of hierarchy, openness, community and attempt to be authentic. The beginning of my deconstruction was Halloween. Growing up in the U.S.A it was a favourite holiday for kids that involved creativity (my parents made us some awesome costumes!) and community (kids excitedly walked ’round the neighbourhood that one evening of the year) and friendliness (neighbours asking who you are dressed up to be, complimenting you on your costume, sharing treats and enjoying the excitement that kids showed). I didn’t make waves, but I quietly allowed my kids to participate in this ‘evil Satanic ritual’ and I loved carving pumpkins and handing out sweets to neighbour kids and waving to their parents who stood at a distance as their little cuties chose their treats and answered my questions about who they were dressed up as.

For a while our church held together a community of people with vastly different beliefs, but we eventually were pulled apart by our differences, not quite able to find purpose that we could agree on or our identity in anything greater than how we expressed our beliefs. Another thing that bothered me when I wasn’t too busy to think about it was the concept of hell and the violence in the old testament. How could a God of all creation prefer the Israelites over other people who She created and loved equally?

The turning point of my spiritual evolution was through a dear friend of mine embracing her homosexuality. She was a gifted leader and I’ve always loved her humour and authentic vulnerable heart. This issue became personal. Our wise church family leader encouraged us to pray and study and reflect on where we stood on this challenging issue of sexuality in our culture and how our church would choose to respond and take a stand. One leader said he had to put aside his feelings to make the decision he thought was right, but another said he thinks his feelings are a part of how God speaks and leads. I agree and although I don’t have an airtight theology about sexuality and the church, I firmly believe that my role is to love and I will aim to welcome and challenge barriers that I believed were Biblical not that many years ago. I started seeing for the first time how simplistic and narrow some Bible verses had been applied without question to justify what didn’t seem loving to me at all.

The Catholicism I thought I had rejected completely was where I’d find some helpful meditation and my first mystical hero: Father Richard Rohr! Now the same omnipresent God who has been with me all my life, counted the hairs on my head, is near and cares so deeply, is even present in every person I meet, (even the cute cheeky robin in my garden and to some degree the blades of grass and weeds growing through the cracks in the path in our neighbourhood and the beautiful pattern of wood grain seen in our table where we eat). I feel inadequate in taking action, but I am convinced God has a special passion for the poor and our planet.

I now can again jog listening to my worship playlists from a few years ago without wincing when I hear lyrics about perfection, narrow views of the cross and salvation, and what seems a shallow tribalism that I embraced wholeheartedly a few decades ago. I am now a member of a church that has some similarities to the one I joined right after becoming a Christian. It’s impossible to compete with ‘the good old days’ but I am proud that we are a fellowship that isn’t just white and somehow we aren’t all middle class. I’m learning (slowly) to emphasise what I agree with in people and smile and not obsess about our differences. My passion that used to be for church has shifted away and into addiction recovery where I’ve learned from atheists and buddhist and gay members of my recovery community more about love and not ‘othering’. The evangelical church, still my family in a way, seems to be more focused on striving: the earnest and faithful becoming better Christians, serving God more, learning more about God, always working so others can join the hard work than I want to do. I sure did strive for more than 25 years but now I’m older and I am drawn more to try to abide in peace and enjoy rather than strive for unquestioned love. My faith grew in a great family of churches but I had no idea that Christianity was so diverse and contained so many traditions, practises and beliefs (even beyond substitutionary atonement!). Buddhism and addiction recovery has taught me to practice acceptance but I still find myself joining others praying when I am moved with compassion in our church small group or old friends from my first family of churches. So much of what I learned in church helps me with what feels like a calling in my recovery community. I am grateful that my experiences of God through the church help me to keep practising loving others (difficult) as I keep trying to love myself (even harder).

Being part of a nomad group that we started during lockdown is a very important community for me. I know I can believe anything, doubt anything, be honest and air my musings with a dear group of friends who have different but similar experiences of passionately loving God from the edges of the established church. It seems we share an experience of finding church not what it used to be and not quite what we need these days. I feel a less strong sense of belonging to the Christian community, but I feel a much larger sense of belonging to the human race. I’m not expecting mountaintop experiences with God like I used to but I’m finding Her in quiet moments in maybe a richer way: the swaying of branches in a tree viewed outside my window, the ever changing masterpiece which is a blue sky of clouds scrolling in front of me when I stop to notice, the lovely, goofy and magical lens through which children see the world. Almost thirty years after becoming a Christian I embrace what I still believe, and I love hearing anyone share about spirituality, the eternal, the mystical. But I have no desire to change anyone’s mind. I hope my map of the universe keeps changing for the better. If my sons (and other people I mentor) find that they can embrace a little bit more love, then I feel I am participating in the great commission.

– KC

In this episode we speak with former church pastor, author and teacher Keith Giles. Like many evangelicals, Keith inherited a dispensational understanding of the End Times. If you’re not sure what that is, think anti-Christ, mark of the Beast, the rapture, Jesus’s return, and the New Jerusalem.
Keith slowly became aware that this was a relatively new, ill-informed and damaging way of reading the bible. So he set about discovering a healthier ‘End Times’ vision.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Nick Thorley reflect on their own experiences of dispensational End Times theology, and how their faith deconstruction and subsequent embrace of a more progressive faith has reshaped that.

Interview starts at 11m 40s

Image used with permission

BOOKS

Jesus Unexpected: Ending the End Times to Become the Second Coming

Jesus Untangled: Crucifying Our Politics to Pledge Allegiance to the Lamb

Jesus Unbound: Liberating the Word of God from the Bible

Jesus Unveiled: Forsaking Church as We Know It for Ekklesia as God Intended

Jesus Undefeated: Condemning the False Doctrine of Eternal Torment

Jesus Unarmed: How the Prince of Peace Disarms Our Violence

Jesus Unforsaken: Substituting Divine Wrath With Unrelenting

BLOG

Keith Giles

QUOTES

“I call it the ‘slow motion’ second coming of Christ. In other words, there is more of Christ in the world today than there was 2000 years ago. But it’s an ongoing thing, it’s a continual thing, it’s gradual.”

“The longer Christians hold onto this fantasy of this end times rapture dispensational theology, what it does is paralyze us. We sit around waiting. And we’ve been doing this since 1830 in large part. Any Christian church that embraces this doctrine, what it encourages you to do is to sit and wait for Jesus to come and fix everything.”

“We are the second coming of Christ.”

“Is the body of Christ physically present in the world today already? Yes. How? In us. Christ is here. He has returned in his church; in his body.”

Merry Christmas to One and All from Nomad Podcast. 

In this devotional episode, Fr Azariah France Williams recalls the story of Viraj Mendis, who sought sanctuary in the UK from Sri Lanka. He lived for several years in a room in the Church of the Ascension, in Hulme, Manchester, being protected by the community. In 1989, the police raided the church and he was forcibly deported.

This episode also features the poet and artist Steve Beal. And David Benjamin Blower performs the medieval traditional Christmas carol, Coventry Carol.

Image used with permission

WEBSITES

Steve Beal

David Benjamin Blower

QUOTES

“The church…should be a place of home and a place of safety and a place of sanctuary.”

“When we own our convictions, when we take that step of faith, and when we feel that there’s nothing and no one for us, that is just the moment which proceeds another community; that is just the moment that proceeds a sense of ‘tribe’ gathering around.”

“It’s far easier to be fearful, to hide, to privatize our angst, our trauma; it’s far easier to hide. But actually to speak up, to step out, to step up – initially there is the fear of what you’re encountering and what you’re challenging. But then behind that, there’s a whole community of people for whom you will spark something within.”

“That sense of ‘God with us’ as companion, when we today feel that we are judged by what we can produce – that we are just a number and not a name – that particular person at that particular point in history says that God is with us and that’s all that matters. Our matter matters to God and that’s all that matters. We can be. We can breathe.”

The former Archbishop of Canterbury Dr Rowan Williams carries a lifelong love for the theology and practice of the Eastern Church. His recent book, Looking East in Winter gives a window into the beautiful contemplative practices of the Eastern tradition.

In this conversation we explore the life of contemplation, political solidarity, simplicity, and “the natural process of becoming natural.”

After the interview, Nomad hosts David Blower and Nick Thorley ponder how Dr. Williams’ ideas might shape their own faith journey.

Interview starts at 16m 32s

Image used with permission.

BOOK

Looking East in Winter: Contemporary Thought and the Eastern Christian Tradition

RESOURCES

The Space Between – Rowan Williams and David Benjamin Blower

QUOTES

“It’s always important – in any context of conflict or debate – to stand back at some point and say, ‘What’s the real question and why does it matter?’”

“One of the things which I think any spiritual tradition worth its salt has to say to you at some point is, ‘Get used to it. You are a material being. You just are something that changes, something that grows, something that can be hurt. Get used to it.’ Because anything else is going to be a really dangerous myth.”

“Insofar as we become simple in the life of faith, it’s that we shed some of the tangles and knots that stop us responding as we should to the truth of God – God’s life.”

“To be truthful about God, you don’t have to try and tell the whole truth about God – because you can’t.

When Hannah Malcolm was approached to write a book on climate grief, she chose, instead, to edit a book compiling voices from across the global church. The resulting picture is an extraordinary collage of very different experiences, all of which begin to suggest the many different ways in which everything is connected. 

In this conversation we glimpse the church as something far richer and more diverse than we thought; we discover the marks of colonialism and extractive capitalism everywhere; and we explore how the crises of the present is drawing us back to land, to one another, and to our own bodies.

After the interview, Nomad hosts David Blower and Anna Robinson reflect on how Hannah’s book might shape their own activism and faith journey.

Interview starts at 12m 16s

Image used with permission

BOOK

Words for a Dying World: Stories of Grief and Courage from the Global Church

Reading List

Ecology for Your Theology Bookshelf

QUOTES

“If grief is an expression of love, then our grief takes the shape of the places and the creatures to which we belong.” 

“If the places we inhabit or visit are always shared places, then if we listen to experiences other than our own, then our attention becomes more genuine. And I think with greater attentiveness comes the possibility of greater love.”

“Grief done well teaches us compassionate attention.”

Claire Gilbert is a theologian, writer, and founding director of Westminster Abbey Institute. When she discovered that she had Myeloma – terminal cancer in the blood – she began her way by writing letters to a circle of trusted friends. The journey drew her home to nature, to her body, and to her long love for the mystic, Julian of Norwich. The letters are now published in the book Miles to Go Before I Sleep.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and David Blower chat about how Claire’s experiences might inform their own faith journeys.

Interview starts at 16m 15s

Image used with permission.

BOOK

Miles To Go Before I Sleep: Letters on Hope, Death and Learning to Live

QUOTES

“The thing I always come back to – and why I think I do call myself ‘Christian,’ although with some tentativeness – is the love.”

“Contemplative prayer – really from the age of ten when I was taught to meditate – has always been very, very important. And that has stayed. But it changed; the nature of it changed. So, I became much less somebody who sought, if you like, to transcend the body and go to some ‘spiritual’ place other than my body, and the contemplation became very much more almost physically interior.”

“You have to go through the pain to find the joy. You can’t avoid the pain. You can’t avoid the suffering.”

“This understanding that I have had to learn about putting my body first is the understanding we all have to learn about putting the Earth first.”

Cop26 is a gathering of world leaders, meeting this November in Glasgow to review agreements to reduce carbon emissions. While the meeting was being confirmed, the Young Christian Climate Network planned a relay pilgrimage from Cornwall to Glasgow. 

In this podcast Rachel Mander talks to us about what’s at stake in this historic gathering, about faith and activism, about how poorer countries are being pushed into debt to the bigger carbon emitters, and about the trials and joys of the political pilgrimage.

After the interview, Nomad hosts David Blower and Anna Robinson have a conversation about how Rachel’s experiences might inform their own activism and faith journeys.

Interview starts at 22m 06s

Image used with permission.

RESOURCE

Young Christian Climate Network

Climate Justice event with Rowan Williams and David Benjamin Blower

The Future We Choose – Christiana Figueres & Tom Rivett-Carnac

Outrage + Optimism podcast

Positive News

MUSIC

The closing music is Gentle Strong by David Benjamin Blower

QUOTES

“I never want to say it’s too late, because this isn’t a binary situation. Climate change isn’t binary – it’s just a matter of degrees. And so, we want it to be better rather than worse, but it’s never a line that’s crossed that’s too late.”

“I think it’s a good instinct to always be a bit wary of anyone saying, ‘this is the only place where this decision can happen,’ or ‘these are the only people who can make a difference.’ That’s just not true. At the same time, I find it difficult to be cynical without it leading to paralysis. And so I have decided – at least for myself – that my responsibility is being faithful to what I believe is right, and the outcomes are kind of beyond me. And that’s okay.”

“I think there’s value in doing what’s right even when it isn’t effective.”

“It’s action that builds community, but it’s community that sustains that action.” 

This is a conversation between Alex Clare-Young and Sarah Hobbs about their trans experience.
Alex is a transmasculine non-binary minister with the United Reformed Church, currently completing doctoral research into trans theology. Sarah is a trans woman, who leads a consultancy business, and is a speaker and trainer. Together they co-chair the Open Table Network, a partnership of Christian communities which welcome and affirm people who are LGBTQ+.
In the conversation Alex and Sarah honestly and vulnerably share their stories of coming to terms with their identities, their transition, the reaction of their faith communities, and their evolving relationship with the Bible and the Christian faith.

We have made this conversation public domain, so you are free to turn it into an episode on your own podcast. We ask that you don’t edit the conversation, but please do feel free to add your own introduction and reflections. We also ask that you acknowledge Nomad Podcast.

Click on the download button to access the MP3 and WAV files, and guest images and bios.

Images used with permission.

“Part of the confusion and pain around it is that the church gave me an identity before I’d chosen one for myself.” – Alex Clare-Young

“Gender stereotypes need to end and we just need to be able to exist as who we are.” – Alex Clare-Young

“Every time I’d come out to anyone in a church context before, it had really always been because I wanted some help to try and not be who I felt like I was inside. Because that’s what you do in church – you resist that ‘sin’ of being trans.” – Sarah Hobbs

“In what way – in any way at all – is a trans person hurting you? Are they affecting your life in any way? Are they causing you difficulty in any way? Absolutely not. And you can choose not to interact with people. And so why people are going out of their way to make life difficult for trans people – it just doesn’t make any sense to me whatsoever. If you’re really that bothered, then just leave them alone and focus on something more positive in your life rather than trying to tear down a group of people who are just trying to survive and be happy.” – Sarah Hobbs

Click on the subscribe button if you’d like to be added to a mailing list to be kept aware of future public domain podcasts.

In this episode we listen in on a conversation between Alex Clare-Young and Sarah Hobbs about their trans experience.
Alex is a transmasculine non-binary minister with the United Reformed Church, currently completing doctoral research into trans theology. Sarah is a trans woman, who leads a consultancy business, and is a speaker and trainer. Together they co-chair the Open Table Network, a partnership of Christian communities which welcome and affirm people who are LGBTQ+.
In the conversation Alex and Sarah honestly and vulnerably share their stories of coming to terms with their identities, their transition, the reaction of their faith communities, and their evolving relationship with the Bible and the Christian faith.
It’s a beautiful, honest, heartbreaking, inspiring, hopeful conversation.

Conversation starts at 21m 25s

Images used with permission.

BOOKS

Alex Clare Young – Transgender. Christian. Human.

WEBSITE

Alex Clare-Young

Open Table Network

QUOTES

“Part of the confusion and pain around it is that the church gave me an identity before I’d chosen one for myself.” – Alex Clare-Young

“Gender stereotypes need to end and we just need to be able to exist as who we are.” – Alex Clare-Young

“Every time I’d come out to anyone in a church context before, it had really always been because I wanted some help to try and not be who I felt like I was inside. Because that’s what you do in church – you resist that ‘sin’ of being trans.” – Sarah Hobbs

“In what way – in any way at all – is a trans person hurting you? Are they affecting your life in any way? Are they causing you difficulty in any way? Absolutely not. And you can choose not to interact with people. And so why people are going out of their way to make life difficult for trans people – it just doesn’t make any sense to me whatsoever. If you’re really that bothered, then just leave them alone and focus on something more positive in your life rather than trying to tear down a group of people who are just trying to survive and be happy.” – Sarah Hobbs

In this episode we’re joined by religion and contemporary spirituality commentator, Diana Butler Bass. Diana talks about her latest book Freeing Jesus, in which she tracks the evolution of her understanding and experience of Jesus. From liberal Methodist beginnings, through fundamentalist evangelicalism, to a more progressive Christianity, Diana has never lost her interest in Jesus, or her openness to mystical experiences. But how does she, and indeed the Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Nick Thorley, now understand titles like Lord, Saviour, Friend and Way?

Interview starts at 14m 53s

Image used with permission

WEBSITE

Diana Butler Bass

BOOKS

Freeing Jesus: Rediscovering Jesus as Friend, Teacher, Savior, Lord, Way, and Presence

Grounded: Finding God in the World

A People’s History of Christianity: The Other Side of the Story

QUOTES

“Images of Jesus actually do matter – they matter politically, they matter racially, they matter ethically – and how we have understood Jesus has played into all these other kinds of issues. To be able to have a default of a Jesus that is about love and friendship, I think that’s a great gift.”

“The depth and the power – the multiplicity – of the salvation images of scripture has brought Jesus as saviour back to me in a way that I really appreciate. What else do we need more right now in the world than healing, liberation, and safety?”

“Mutual interrogation is holding to both – both our experience, and holding to the importance of scripture, tradition, the wisdom of the past, relationality in community, and even certain ritual. And letting these two realities speak to one another and transform one another. And it’s in that act of mutual interrogation that we move ahead into a richer and deeper images of who Jesus is.”

Every month we produce a podcast for our supporters called Nomad Revisited. In each episode Tim Nash and Nick Thorley enter the Nomad archive and chose an episode from the last 12 years, and spend an hour or so reflecting on how their faith has evolved since then. It’s an exercise in self forgiveness and compassion, as they are often confronted with terrible interview technique, poor audio quality and very earnest, evangelical theology!
This month we thought we’d put one of these episode on Nomad’s main feed, as a free taster.
It’s a 2014 conversation with the author of the book The Evangelical Universalist, Robin Parry. At the time Tim and Nick would have considered ‘evangelical universalism’ an oxymoron, and a slippery slope to liberalism. But how do they view it now?

Interview starts at 21m 56s

Image used with permission.

BOOKS

The Evangelical Universalist: The Biblical Hope That God’s Love Will Save us All

The Biblical Cosmos: A Pilgrim’s Guide to the Weird and Wonderful World of the Bible

QUOTES

“I don’t use the word ‘universalist,’ but I have a hope that all things will be restored, and I’ve got no interest in a religion or a spirituality that doesn’t centre around the idea that everything’s sacred, everything’s worth healing, everything’s going to be restored and transformed. I’ve certainly got no interest in a God who gives up on people, or gives up on animals, or gives up on the planet and just throws them away.” – Tim Nash

“Within my deconstruction journey, I suppose at times it’s been like a ‘liberalising’ of the Christian tradition, but then it’s become so broad and inclusive and expansive that then you start wondering where the distinctive ‘Christian’ stuff is important or not.” – Nick Thorley

“I argue that universalism sort of occupies this space that’s in between heresy and dogma. So, it’s not heretical – it’s not outside the bounds of orthodoxy – but nor is it a central issue for orthodoxy. It’s something orthodox Christians can believe while remaining orthodox.” – Robin Parry

“The bible doesn’t tell us how to hold these things together – that’s what we do as interpreters. And we always run the risk of being wrong when we do it. But I’m just saying let’s explore this option, which people tend to ignore; this possibility that maybe we should not fix down the meaning of the hell texts…but leave them open and see if they can be read in different ways.” – Robin Parry

One of my biggest regrets took place when I was 16, sitting in an all-boys tent at a Christian youth summer camp. It was one of those late-night deep chats with the camp leaders, where they coax out your angsty teenage struggles so that they can smooth them over with a healthy dose of conservative theology. Somehow, the discussion made its way to marriage roles (heterosexual marriage roles, that is) and the question of male headship. I say question; it was barely asked before almost everyone in the tent resoundingly answered in the affirmative. ‘I used to struggle with the idea,’ one of the older boys said. ‘But then I read a book about it and it makes sense to me now.’ The usual mental gymnastics ensued – ‘the husband is head of the wife, but Christ is head of the man, so really Christ is the head of the wife, just via the husband. Which is fine because, er… well it says so in the Bible’ – and I just sat there in awkward silence. I don’t believe for a second that if I had said something it would’ve made a great deal of difference. The power in that tent was very much on the side of male headship and a little protest from one of the youngest boys there wouldn’t have started a feminist revolution. But I still wish I’d made my values known regardless, to have not been complicit in my silence.

Image used with permission

Experiences like this were not uncommon at that time in my life. We had left the church I grew up in when I was 13, and a tentative deconstruction was beginning thanks to that experience and a growing exposure to progressive politics on the internet (I’m one of those rare young white men who has been made more left wing by the internet rather than the other way around). Most of the fundamentals of my charismatic evangelical faith were yet to be taken apart, but I was pretty sure women were equal to men and that affirming LGBTQ+ people was a good idea. This was enough to put me wildly out of step with the Christian communities I’d grown up in, and I hadn’t even began questioning hell or penal substitution yet. But I kept going to many Friday evening youth groups and summer camps with my old church because, well, many of my oldest friends were there. And frequently I’d find myself sitting uncomfortably through another ‘deep chat’ about how we have to love our gay friends but maintain that being gay wasn’t ‘God’s best for them’ (these youth leaders all claimed to have gay friends that they told this to; I’d be interested to hear the alleged friends’ sides of the story). The most I ever pushed back was the one time I asked if it was possible to be Christian and LGBTQ+ affirming. I received an emphatic ‘no’ and kept quiet for the rest of the evening.

I spent a surprisingly long time in this limbo state, continuing to go to charismatic evangelical church events as my own faith became less and less in line with what was preached at them. And I’m not convinced this was good for me. Although in my head I was picking apart the flaws of the theology – rejecting their bigoted social conservatism, their cruel and stressful model of salvation, their unaccountable power structures rife with abuse – I was still immersed in the environments where all of this was being enforced. And they are strange environments. The aforementioned late-night-deep-chats are the apotheoses of the irresponsible intimacy fostered in these places. They draw out your vulnerability in front of all your peers in order to decree the ‘Godly’ solution to your struggles, implicitly recruiting those peers you’ve just exposed your soul in front of as enforcers. The fear of communal shame, under the guise of ‘loving accountability’, is harnessed to keep you on the straight and narrow. In these spaces you are discouraged from trusting your own feelings – from listening to your own body’s attempts to communicate with you – and encouraged instead to surrender yourself to the judgement of the conservative evangelical social order, as enforced by your best friends.

I am white, male, straight and cisgender. I am exactly the kind of person the evangelical church is designed to benefit. I am hyper-aware of the fact that the kind of oppressive environments I’ve experienced are nothing compared to those whose identities the church privileges less, if not downright discriminates against. But there is also a particular insidiousness to growing up as a straight cisgender man in these environments: the offer of power. There’s an implicit bargain that, if you repeat what we want you to repeat – if you fit yourself into our patriarchal mould – you too can be like the youth pastors and worship leaders you idolise. And if you read one of our approved books and suppress your discomfort with male headship, then you get to be the most powerful person in your family simply because of your maleness. The great irony of evangelical Christianity is that for all its warnings against the temptations of ‘the world’, it maintains its patriarchal dominance through the constant temptation of power.

I have finally left these kind of church spaces for good. It took me too long and I am still working out the full extent of the impact they’ve had on me. Certainly, it has made me more suspicious of myself than I would like to be, more excessively self-conscious of my own faults while simultaneously less capable of doing anything about them; more likely to suppress those faults out of fear than to work through them honestly. When I was in the limbo state, I theoretically maintained an ardent opposition to the church as an institution while struggling to resist the pull of it. I believe this is because what the community churches claim to provide is actually – when done right – deeply important to me; when it isn’t a community shaped by abusive power structures to keep everybody in line but a space that truly expresses the all-embracing love of Jesus. And since leaving those old churches behind for ever, I have been extremely fortunate in finding new communities that are far closer to that ideal. Nomad is one of them. The beautiful chapel at my college is another. And the vibrantly inclusive church in the centre of my home city is the most recent space I’ve entered and felt the unconditional welcome I – and others who wouldn’t fit the evangelical mould – could never get in those old spaces. My hope is that everyone longing for the kind of community previous church experiences have failed to live up to can find it.

– Nathan Brooks

This is a conversation between a Christian and a pagan. Emma Moreton is a former pastor, art therapist and activist, whose faith led her towards pagan spirituality and community. Lyn Baylis has practiced her pagan spirituality all of her life. She’s been a priestess for 40 years, is a Multi-faith minister, and is the UK Coordinator for LifeRites and Senior teacher on the LifeRites Foundation Course.
Here they talk about how their journeys took shape, how they’ve dealt with rejection and persecution, and what they’ve learned from one another.

We have made this conversation public domain, so you are free to turn it into an episode on your own podcast. We ask that you don’t edit the conversation, but please do feel free to add your own introduction and reflections. We also ask that you acknowledge Nomad Podcast.

Click on the download button to access the MP3 and WAV files, and guest images and bios.

Images used with permission.

“With labels, it’s like drawing all these lines and all these boxes. And we put people into these different boxes to try and help us understand or presume what they think, what they believe, how they’re going to act or behave. And I’ve found that actually no labels or titles are satisfactory, because very few people are totally just one thing in any aspect of their lives.”

“Every time a line is drawn – people say who’s in and who’s out – we find that Jesus is on the other side of the line that’s being drawn.”

“Everything has that spark of the divine in it, so we’re not superior to nature; we are part of it.”

“It is all about education. It’s trying to get people to understand that the entrenched view that they’ve got is not real – it’s not reality. It is a view that they’ve been given from the past that they’ve hung onto. If they would step over that barrier to come and talk to us and be with us and share with us, they would find out that there isn’t a need to be frightened.”

Click on the subscribe button if you’d like to be added to a mailing list to be kept aware of future public domain podcasts.

This episode is a conversation between good friends Emma Morton and Lyn Baylis. Emma is a former pastor, art therapist and activist, whose faith led her towards pagan spirituality and community. Lyn has practiced her pagan spirituality all of her life. She’s been a priestess for 40 years, is a Multi-faith minister, and is the UK Coordinator for LifeRites and Senior teacher on the LifeRites Foundation Course.
Here they talk about how their journeys took shape, how they’ve dealt with rejection and persecution, and what they’ve learned from one another.

Conversation starts at 16m 5s

Images used with permission.

QUOTES

“With labels, it’s like drawing all these lines and all these boxes. And we put people into these different boxes to try and help us understand or presume what they think, what they believe, how they’re going to act or behave. And I’ve found that actually no labels or titles are satisfactory, because very few people are totally just one thing in any aspect of their lives.”

“Every time a line is drawn – people say who’s in and who’s out – we find that Jesus is on the other side of the line that’s being drawn.”

“Everything has that spark of the divine in it, so we’re not superior to nature; we are part of it.”

“It is all about education. It’s trying to get people to understand that the entrenched view that they’ve got is not real – it’s not reality. It is a view that they’ve been given from the past that they’ve hung onto. If they would step over that barrier to come and talk to us and be with us and share with us, they would find out that there isn’t a need to be frightened.”

Natalia-Nana is a teacher, trainer, and coach in Equity, Diversity, and Liberation. In this episode we talk about what it means to decolonise our faith, why it is important and how we can go about it. Jemimah and Natalia-Nana explore the relationship between deconstruction and the work of decolonising and dismantling. They discuss the impact of colonisation on the ways we think, relate, and the way that institutions operate including in our spiritual journeys and faith communities.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Jemimah McAlpine and Anna Robinson ponder how Natalia’s experiences might inform their own activism and faith journeys.

Interviews starts at 20m 57s

Image used with permission

QUOTES

“For me, I’d see ‘deconstruction’ as I guess the umbrella and ‘decolonizing’ is a particular way of deconstructing. And for me, you cannot deconstruct without decolonizing.”

“We act as if exploring is a neutral activity. We act as if exploring is a good thing, when actually it was exploring to dominate, it was exploring to appropriate, it was exploring to extract and to exploit. So, for me colonizing is looking at how white supremacy and capitalism are bedfellows, are enmeshed or entwined, are all part of the same lash, the same whip. And then you can’t divorce white supremacy and capitalism from ableism. And you can’t divorce white supremacy from patriarchy. The two go so hand-in-hand. They’re all enmeshed; they’re all bedfellows.”

“Capitalism isn’t just about money. Capitalism is about being output-driven. It’s about productivity. It’s about performativism. It’s about perfectionism – all those things that you’re trying to deconstruct but maybe don’t use language for. There’s something to me that sort of says the danger of deconstructing is that it’s so individualistic.”

This is a conversation about the experience of death. Jim Robinson lost both his parents at quite a young age, and Liz Pattison recently lost her partner. They share their experiences of grief and loss, how friends, family and church responded, and how their faith has evolved through these experiences.
It’s an honest, real, insightful, moving and hopeful conversation.

We have made this conversation public domain, so you are free to turn it into an episode on your own podcast. We ask that you don’t edit the conversation, but please do feel free to add your own introduction and reflections. We also ask that you acknowledge Nomad Podcast.

Click on the download button to access the MP3 and WAV files, and guest images and bios.

Images used with permission.

QUOTES

“With the kids, what I want for them is for them to have genuine connection with people – with me, with other adults who love them – so that they actually feel like they can talk about how they’re feeling. And if they’re not allowed to talk about the loss of their dad – not allowed to talk about death – then that basically shuts down a whole part of them, and then you can’t connect with them.”

“Generally, with people that are grieving, the worst thing is to assume you know what the other person feels.”

“One of the impacts of my own experience…is to really feel that life includes death, and death is part of life, and remembering people, and knowing that they’ve been here, and they’ve lived life is part of what we all experience. And for me, I’m trying to not fear that and to not see that as a negative thing: it is how it is.”

“People sometimes say beautiful, powerful things about people when they’ve died. But if you have the opportunity to say it to them when they’re still here, why would you not?”

Click on the subscribe button if you’d like to be added to a mailing list to be kept aware of future public domain podcasts.

On this episode we’ve invited Liz Pattison and Jim Robinson to have a conversation around their experiences of death. Jim lost both his parents at quite a young age, and Liz recently lost her partner. They share their experiences of grief and loss, how friends, family and church responded, and how their faith has evolved through these experiences.
It’s an honest, real, insightful, moving and hopeful conversation.

Conversation starts at 21m 32s

Images used with permission.

QUOTES

“With the kids, what I want for them is for them to have genuine connection with people – with me, with other adults who love them – so that they actually feel like they can talk about how they’re feeling. And if they’re not allowed to talk about the loss of their dad – not allowed to talk about death – then that basically shuts down a whole part of them, and then you can’t connect with them.”

“Generally, with people that are grieving, the worst thing is to assume you know what the other person feels.”

“One of the impacts of my own experience…is to really feel that life includes death, and death is part of life, and remembering people, and knowing that they’ve been here, and they’ve lived life is part of what we all experience. And for me, I’m trying to not fear that and to not see that as a negative thing: it is how it is.”

“People sometimes say beautiful, powerful things about people when they’ve died. But if you have the opportunity to say it to them when they’re still here, why would you not?”

Miles Irving has been foraging since childhood. Having journeyed through Pentecostalism, he returned to his first passion for wild foods, and began to discover that our relationship to what we eat bears deeply on our relationship to everything.

In this episode, Miles and David Blower spend a day eating nothing but foraged food and talking through the joys, trials and transformations that come of eating what grows out of the soil where we live.

Image used with permission

WEBSITE

WorldWild

BOOK

The Forager Handbook

QUOTES

“The plants, a lot of them are weeds, right? And if they’re not weeds, they’re things that are overlooked – because nobody notices and nobody pays attention and nobody knows. So, it was like these marginalized lifeforms were being gathered into the centre and celebrated; they were being used like the crown and glory of dishes by these very highly renowned chefs. And that seemed like there was something going on there: the idea of the marginalized being drawn into the centre and celebrated.”

“If we look at the word ‘presence’ and then we look at the word ‘absence’ and then the word ‘abstraction,’ what I’ve realized is that faith in the mainstream is actually more about abstraction than it is about actuality, and therefore it’s not a good thing. So, in other words, what people think they have is faith – it’s something that makes them disengage, rather than something that makes them engage.”

Although I would date the beginning of my deconstruction from around 5 years ago, in reality it probably began over a decade before. 

I didn’t grow up in a Christian home as such but had a Christian Granny who was definitely an influence. My teenage years were far from happy ones but involvement in Christian camps and events gave me a sense of belonging that I struggled to find elsewhere and the desire to fit into their worldview fuelled what I believed (I realised this on reflection, but then it was just life to me). I continued in the same vain for some years. 

Image used with permission

In my mid 20s I committed the cardinal sin of falling in love with a someone who wasn’t a Christian and although many were supportive some saw my boyfriend less as a person and more as a conversation project. The actions of some really put him off and also really hurt me, but I clung on. I discovered the likes of Rob Bell and Brian McLaren around this time and spent many years doing the whole both/and rather than either/or. 

The relationship ended and I doubled down on my faith again. I reengaged with Purity Culture, as it is in the UK, but chose to sit under a lot of more extreme teaching from the States. As a result I spent most of my 30s miserable and full of shame over my past choices. I was single and longing to not only be married but be a mum. It was made more painful by the fact I am a midwife, so I spent my life watching others get my dream. I kept being told to wait for the one and that it would come from where I couldn’t see. 

During this time I also burnt myself out serving in my Church and battled what I now realise was high functioning depression, but I kept hearing the message that I’d feel better when I’d sorted “my stuff”. Being caught up in a fairly Charismatic church meant I sat under a culture that enabled people I trusted to pray things over me that were deeply harmful and too often I felt like I was totally exposed to those who were seen to be highly prophetic. 

I pursued experiences and the Charismatic in the hope to have a moment where in a flash everything would change, but I became more and more weary as it didn’t. I did in those times discover the teachings of the Fatherheart movement and this still brings comfort now. 

5 years ago I was burnt out and I took myself off to Mozambique to attend IRIS ministries Harvest School. This was where the wheels quite unexpectedly started to come off. 

I could write so much about that summer but in short I sat listening to teaching about the overwhelming love of God but also about the eternal conscious torment of hell that left me fundamentally questioning God’s Character, even though I had for years not even held that view of Hell. But I felt it was under this theology that I had seen the most moves of God, as I recognised them. And again some of the things said there were incredibly damaging to me. 

I came home with no answers as to what to do next (I had spent the summer asking, but God although seemingly saying a lot, never said anything I needed). 

That Autumn the Trump election campaign was in full swing and seeing Christians sing his praises and support him left me feeling embarrassed to even call myself a Christian. 

With the wheels coming off my faith and going back to a job I hated left me hopeless and depressed. It was the closest to wanting my life to end I’ve ever been. I would say that if this is my life, I don’t want it. 

Going to church was painful and I opted out more and more and since I worked a lot of weekends my not going wasn’t noticed. I felt I couldn’t discuss where I was theologically as I didn’t want to be fixed or misunderstood or rejected for my beliefs. I was scared I would be lonely as all my friends were in church and I had no energy to really get involved in anything else. I felt pretty trapped in my life. 

I eventually gathered the courage to see both my doctor and seek counselling. For me I sought out a Christian counsellor (although properly accredited) as I felt so much of my struggle was wrapped up in my faith I needed them to understand that bit of my life without me having to explain it. I lucked out with a hugely empathetic counsellor who was also in a similar place theologically.  

I was able to throw off the shame and embrace who I was, not who people wanted me to be and not care so much what others thought. At this time I transitioned to a different job that was hugely rewarding. 

I continued to go to church but entirely disengaged from the teaching and only craving the community. 

Lockdown forced me to face the fact it was time to move on from the Church I went to as taking the social aspect away left nothing there anymore. Released from the need to be someone I wasn’t I more and more embraced who I was becoming and accepted that I didn’t have and didn’t need to have all the answers. The friends that were true friends have stuck around and those that were just church pals have drifted away. 

I still call myself a Christian but one in a very different theological place that feels more akin to the character of God I encountered in the years where I was unhindered by the myriad of questions that come with that now. I still feel in transition and still not sure where I will land, if I will ever land, but I am ok with that. I find myself lately feeling the grief of things I have lost. I was a worshipper and heavily involved in worship but so many songs now are laced with the church from which they originated and I can’t sing them without getting angry or sad. I think the loss of this is the most grief I feel as it was the way I connected with God and the way I expressed how I felt about him. I stumbled upon the UK Blessing from lockdown last year and found myself weeping over something I missed so dearly but not sure how I would ever find a way to engage with. 

The happy place I am in now is with someone I love and can share life with, and with the current tatters of a faith I no longer understand but patiently try to explain and work out. We have moved to a lovely area with loads to do and I definitely feel I don’t need church to fill a void that was there before. I plan to use the extra time to be more healthy in my lifestyle both physically, emotionally and spiritually and don’t plan to burn myself out serving again. 

As restrictions ease we plan to try and find a church and that currently is causing me some anxiety that I will either not fit theologically or am not accepted for what I currently believe. It’s as uncomfortable as all the questions but I’m learning to accept the discomfort and embrace where it takes me. I no longer care what other Christians think about what I believe, but at the same time find great comfort when I find I am not alone in my thinking. 

I’m still a work in progress and probably will be for the rest of my life, but that’s ok. 

– Gillian Crossley

Many of us inherited a faith that had a lot to say about life after death. But as our faith shifted and evolved we were left increasingly unsure whether these beliefs had any basis in reality, or were just fairly tales.

Well, it turns out science has an increasing amount to say on the subject. So, we interviewed Dr Bruce Greyson, a self proclaimed “skeptical scientist”, who as well as being a very well respected psychiatrist, has also spent the last 50 years pioneering near death studies. He went into this field confidently expecting to find a physiological explanation for what people were claiming to have experienced as their bodies were shutting down. But what he discovered challenged all his preconceived ideas.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Nick Thorley chat about the understanding of the afterlife they inherited, how their deconstruction challenged this, and how they might integrate Dr Greyson’s finding into their spirituality.

Interview starts at 17m 02s

Image used with permission

BOOKS

After: A Doctor Explores What Near-Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond

QUOTES

“We’re all in this together. There’s no difference between me and you. And what I do to you, I’m doing to myself as well. I feel the consequences of what I do to everybody else. In a sense, this is the Golden Rule, which is actually part of every religion we have; basically, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. But near death experiencers typically say – for them – it’s no longer a guideline we’re supposed to follow, but they realize it’s a law of the universe.”

“[Near death experiences] are normal experiences that happen to normal people in abnormal situations.”

“People typically come back with much more of a sense of ‘spirituality.’ They care about relationships, not things. They become much more compassionate, much more caring, their behaviour’s much more altruistic, they tend not to care about things of this life – material possessions, power, prestige, fame, competition. And this may sound like it’s a good change, but it can actually wreak havoc in people’s lives if it’s very unlike the way they were living beforehand.”

“One of the most consistent things people say after a near death experience is that they are no longer afraid of dying – death no longer frightens them. They’ve been there and they know that it’s a pleasant experience. It’s not something to be afraid of.”

In this episode Jemimah McAlpine talks about her transformative experience of dance and her thinking about the theological significance of dancing. She and David Blower discuss dualism and embodiment and how reconnecting with our bodies can lead to an experience of wholeness and connection with the earth and everyone around us. Jemimah shares how embodiment has changed her understanding of God and enjoyment of life.

Interview starts at 12m 32s

Image used with permission

BOOKS

The Body Is Not an Apology: The Power of Radical Self-Love

The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth

QUOTES

“Through this regular practice of dance every week, I experienced a reconnection with my self where I felt alive again and connected to my own power. And it wasn’t a practice that made me feel ‘better’ for that short amount of time and helped me cope with my life; it was an experience that changed the way that I experience myself and experience my relation to the world and other people, so that I felt empowered to change my circumstances.”

“There’s been a growing acceptance of the body as a site of knowledge – what we can know through the body – and that where we’re located contextually affects how we make meaning of the world around us.”

“The opposite of dualism isn’t non-dualism or non-dualistic thinking, it’s embodiment.”

“In a situation where you cannot change your circumstances, what are the means of defying the oppressor? One of those means of defiance is to experience joy in the face of oppression; to turn the tools of the oppressor; to subvert them. So, like in the dance moves, subverting the experiences of oppression into self-expression.”

In 2006, when I was in my middle-20s, I wrote a short article for RELEVANT magazine titled “Why I am not an Emergent Christian.” In retrospect, I don’t think I understood much about the Emergent Church movement that was rushing through my Evangelical communities. What I did know was that most of my friends in the Seattle area were abandoning their smaller local churches in favor of the cooler, edgier, and supposedly “more authentic” Mars Hill church, pastored by Mark Driscoll. I felt the allure of Mars Hill, too, but I was also keenly aware of the way that my multigenerational, family church was being hollowed out as most of my peers left.

Image used with permission

In the article, I made the case for seeing the church as a dysfunctional family (my analogy was the family from Wes Anderson’s film The Royal Tenenbaums). Even though we had problems, I argued, people should remain committed to small, local, multigenerational churches instead of moving to more attractive, trendier churches. I suggested that a church family, like a biological family, was never meant to be “perfect,” but that it was held together by the willingness of imperfect people to remain together, through good and bad. I’m still glad that I never went to Mars Hill—now more than ever—but my thoughts on church, family, and community have become much more complicated.

My homespun apologetics for sticking with a church no matter what were just one small part of my larger embrace of Christian apologetics. As a lifelong pastor’s kid and missionary kid, I was prepared from an early age to know the Bible inside and out, to understand not just key themes of the Christian narrative but niche trivia (e.g., “Who is the left-handed judge in Judges 3? Ehud, of course!”) and the intricacies of a distinctively dispensational theology. Sure, I had questions or doubts; and whenever I did, I just studied more and more in order to shore up a rational defense of what I had been taught and what I believed.

As I moved through university and then through graduate school, in pursuit of a PhD in early-nineteenth century English literature, I embraced philosophy, history, and poststructural linguistics. At the same time, I remained committed to my small local church, teaching Sunday school classes on the literary elements of the Bible, regularly helping lead in music ministry, and serving for six years as an elder. During this time, my commitment to intellectual rigor in my academic work made it increasingly difficult for me to ignore the fissures that were opening up in my belief structures, and this sense of cognitive dissonance made me feel like I was living two lives at once. One felt intellectually honest, while the other was driven by “faith” and “trust” and cautioned me against “leaning on my own understanding.”

The first real crack opened up shortly after I finished my doctorate when, all of a sudden, I could no longer read the first three chapters of Genesis. I could not maintain the cognitive dissonance any longer. The framework I had been given told me that if I couldn’t read Genesis literally, then the whole Bible was drawn into question. If I dismissed the “first Adam,” then I might as well dismiss Jesus as the “new Adam,” and so on. I have heard others describe similar efforts to grapple with Genesis specifically, and the Bible more broadly, as extremely lonely. I felt that loneliness, too. Suddenly, the church that had felt like a family to me felt like a place of isolation, like I was carrying a secret that I couldn’t talk to anyone about. I imagined that letting people know about the conflict churning inside of me would (at best) raise eyebrows or (at worst) ostracize me as someone who had capitulated to “the secular culture.”

The story feels so familiar, especially in deconstructive circles, that it almost sounds cliché when I look back over it. What I do not hear people talk about as much is the deep feeling of shame that came along with this process. The part of myself that valued intellectual honesty criticized the part of me that was trying to hold on to a rigid belief structure grounded in certainty. The part of myself that valued belief and a deep commitment to my faith community criticized the part of me that would dare question those beliefs and jeopardize my place in that community. In light of my earlier apologetic efforts, I felt like a hypocrite and a failure. Both sides of myself would tell the other side that it was worthless, the source of my own problems. A lot of the time, I just wished that I could disappear—from my church, from my friends, and from myself. At the same time, I longed to be seen, to feel like I wasn’t alone, but I just didn’t know how or where to find that anymore.

It would be misleading to say that those feelings have gone away. Sometimes they are with me more strongly than others. The isolation of lockdowns mixed with the apocalyptic nature of American politics over the past five-plus years has been as disorienting as it has been reorienting. It has not been easy reconciling the divisions within me, and I have a hard time knowing how to trust myself anymore. Those who know me see me as a thoughtful and engaging conversationalist on all kinds of subjects. My students see me as a caring, enthusiastic, and energetic professor who can make early-nineteenth-century poetry come alive (no easy task). But it is difficult for me to see myself as any of those things, to trust myself to be myself.

So, while I used to put my effort into defending systems and tracing grand narratives, I’ve learned to find hope in places that don’t fit into the boxes that I’ve built and that have been built for me—places that I feel allow me to exist as I am. For the past year, the practice of centering prayer has given me permission to sit in mindful silence without worrying about having the right language for prayer or intellectualizing my way through things. The concept of David Benjamin Blower’s “nah-box” has given me permission to hold on to beliefs that bring life while freely discarding ideas that don’t work any longer. Therapy has been hard but helpful for unravelling those narratives that have told me that I am worthless unless I do or believe x, y, or z properly. Perhaps most surprisingly, I’ve found an odd sense of community teaching at an ecumenical Christian university that has given me an academic home while allowing me to move between many different streams of Christianity. I have found refreshment through engaging with diverse theologies that decenter me and my own need to provide answers.

Self-acceptance has always been difficult for me. I used to think the best solution was to find better answers so I could be sure that I was doing things the “right” way. Now I’m practicing being more generous, towards others and towards myself, as I learn to not know.

– Traynor Hansen

It’s always a pleasure to have author, activist, and public theologian Brian McLaren on Nomad. This time we talk with Brian about the vital role that doubt plays in our faith development. Brian breaks down the faith journey into four stages – simplicity, complexity, perplexity and harmony. He talks about the struggles and joys of each stage, and how it’s only when we embrace our doubts that we can grow and move onto the next stage.
After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Nick Thorley ponder the role doubt played in the evangelicalism they inherited, and in the deconstruction and reconstruction of their faith.

Interview starts at 20m 14s

Image used with permission

WEBSITE

Brian McLaren

BOOKS

Faith after Doubt: Why Your Beliefs Stopped Working and What to Do About It

The Great Spiritual Migration: How the World’s Largest Religion is Seeking a Better Way to Be Christian

QUOTES

“Sometimes the information that you learn comes in conflict with the simple answers you were given by your authority figures. And that becomes the big task of stage two. I would call stage one ‘simplicity’ – faith before doubt. I would call stage two ‘complexity’ – faith managing doubt.”

“It’s scary enough for ‘sinners’ to fall in the hands of an angry God. It’s much scarier for doubters to fall into the hands of angry Christians.”

“‘The way you define ‘Christian’ – that’s not what I am anymore. I don’t tick your boxes, I don’t fulfil your qualifications.’ But then I might just say something to them as an act of playfulness: ‘Whatever I am, I actually love Jesus a lot more now than I ever have. And whatever I am, I actually see more wisdom and depth in the bible than I ever used to. So, whatever you want to call me, I’ll just tell you: It’s not that I don’t love Jesus, or the bible, or even my tradition. I see depths in my tradition that I didn’t used to see. So, you can call me what you want, but I know who I am.’”

“We have some things that desperately need to be doubted; not to leave us with nothing, but so that bigger and better ways of seeing can emerge.”

“So, Nikki – tell us something of the faith you inherited”. I can hear the Nomad question. Well, values, not faith. That’s what I inherited. My parents were fairly politically orientated. Our family of four would have mealtimes where everyone talked at once and we put the world to rights. I knew my parents loved me unconditionally. Always. Still do. I grew up with a distinct sense that not everyone has an equal start in life, we should help the disadvantaged and generally be kind and compassionate. My parents are the kind of people that others are drawn to and I always wanted to be like my Mum when I grew up – genuine, always herself, in no way false, generous and warm. After ‘O’ Levels, a move to another area sent me sideways emotionally, and when I suffered a severe depressive episode, this seemed unattainable.

Image used with permission

Depression can make you fairly self-absorbed. But it is part of the illness. Long story short……I was invited to a small Methodist church by a girl I met at my new school (lots of old ladies singing out of tune is what I remember!) and when I came out of my depression I had no clue what these church going folk believed. I ‘researched it’ and ‘prayed the prayer’, and felt overwhelmed by the freedom that I was loved unconditionally by God, but also explaining my perceived ‘selfishness’ and lack of ability to be as giving as my parents to be as a result of my ‘sin’ and hence requiring the Holy Spirit to be ‘better’. I was 17.

Fast forward through University, I met my now husband of 25 years through the Christian Union and embraced evangelical Christianity in a way that will be familiar and fairly unremarkable to many in this Nomad community. I maintained a good relationship with my parents, though there was sometimes a nagging feeling that they needed ‘saving’, and I honestly believed that would never happen. They became humanists, my Dad an atheist, and continued to maintain excellent values that I shared on so many levels.

My work professionally in the mental health field over many years, I think is key to a gradual feeling as I went along on a Sunday that so many of the Christian clichés seemed hollow, and I struggled more and more to reconcile the simplistic and ‘neat’ answers to everything, with the pain, brokenness and general struggles of real life, that I encountered in peoples’ lives on a daily basis. I felt embarrassed by the evangelical message and could never imagine ‘selling’ it to any of these ‘real people’, just as I never believed my parents would ever ‘buy it’. About 8 years ago, I was struck by the strong and intrusive thought regularly “What if my parents have been right all along?” I framed it as ‘doubt’, read a book on doubt, talked about doubt and tried to get rid of it and fit back into the evangelical mould. And never quite managed it fully. Moving from adult mental health services, to work with young people in mental health crisis, just made me feel more disillusioned with church, as I was exposed to so many situations in which children and young people were in non-validating environments. As I began to understand more about attachment difficulties it became implausible to me that they should have to jump through theological hoops to be safe in the arms of God, when the very concept of trusting anyone would be so challenging for them. They just needed loving. I was also deeply troubled by the notion that only those who had “prayed the prayer” were destined for eternal joy, and the rest of humankind doomed, when I saw so much good in my family, colleagues and other people I met who were supposedly not in the club.

During the autumn of 2018, through connections with a couple of friends who I felt able to spiritually question things with, in a way that challenged the evangelical mindset, I was thankfully introduced to a whole world of different reading and podcast ‘material’ and online community. A blessed relief, I can tell you! Looking back on something I wrote during 2019, this experience in the clinic where I worked at the time, was a profound and significant experience that I think sums up from where things have continued to flow in a hopeful and positive way:

“I’m sat in the group room with four colleagues on a conference call to the Tavistock Gender Identity Development Service. We talk about chest bindings and whether there are risks to physical health and development; factors to be considered in deciding if and when a young person should take hormone suppressors.  I am struck by the sensitivity to the unique experience of each young person, as well the complexities of family life when a young person is considering transitioning to the opposite gender. The compassion in the room, and in London, is almost palpable: a deep desire to connect with these beautiful people, surely made in God’s image and wholly and unconditionally loved.  I am aware that my colleagues have no notion of a Christian approach to spirituality, and in fact I have no idea what their take is on spirituality and faith in general. Certainly evangelistic judgements, from certain circles of organised religion, have condemned and alienated these beautiful young people who we are here to support and care for. And yet, at this moment, I see clearly that no one group has a monopoly on compassion. If God is good and loving, I sense He is filling the room, because the goodness and love is almost oozing out of the door. Whether they recognise it or not, He has to be found in every monumental effort of theirs to understand the experience of each  young person and reach out to guide and support them, and their families, through the myriad of questions, uncertainties and anxiety. This is a manifestation of a God of diversity at its best, and I feel more at peace and at one with my environment than I have in a long time.”

So, where am I now and what have a I learned? I feel like I have almost come full circle and returned to my solid roots and what was modelled to me in terms of open-heartedness and a passion for equality, with a deep desire to connect in a real and genuine way with the uniqueness of another person, without agenda. Of course, this Jesus stuff got thrown in along the way, and in many ways over-complicated the simple call to love people. But it does mean there is a rich spiritual thread running through my life, though it is more about values and relationships these days. There has perhaps been a synthesis of the best bits of the different worlds I have inhabited, both personally and professionally. And today, through feeling more able than ever before to question everything, spot an assumption a mile off and challenge it in a curious, non-confrontational kind of way (well, I try!) I am trying to walk a path that sees people in a holistic and complete way. There is no sense of superiority: it’s important that “the least shall be first”, as we try to see the good in others, and mutually support and build each other up. In reaching a place where I am totally at peace with a values-based way of relating that puts loving, affirming relationships and connection before theological tick boxes, my marriage is also spiritually more freeing. It is no longer threatened by differences of opinion or the unique and distinct spiritual paths that my husband and I find ourselves on. There is always growth for both of us, and mutual respect.

Where I see compassion, I celebrate it – for no-one has a monopoly on that. Let us love in unity with all of society. And let me give my parents long, lingering hugs when this darn pandemic subsides. They have done me so much good!

– Nikki Vesey

In this podcast, David Benjamin Blower converses with musician, podcaster and activist Samantha Lindo on the subject of music: music as a wisened friend, music as a gatherer of people and radical energies, and music as a kind of prayer that can halt the Powers that Be, even just for a moment.

Interview starts at 23m 44s

Images used with permission

WEBSITES

Samantha Lindo

David Benjamin Blower

PERMISSIONS

The song Sing All Ye, from Hymns for Nomads Volume 2 by David Benjamin Blower, is used with permission.

The song Those Kids (live acoustic version) by Samatha Lindo, is used with permission.

QUOTES

“You can infer so much from someone’s choice of song and their reaction to it.”

“It took me leaving home to claim my heritage and to find my voice – musically and spiritually and all the rest – which is traumatic to some extent as well, to not belong, not to have those roots around you. But it also was the gateway to life as I know it now. So, that was a very creative space even though it was kind of difficult and chaotic at the same time.” 

“The songs are a jumping-off point; the songs are a platform to speak about things.”

“It’s about the gathering and what it means and the communal experience of music, which I think is how music was birthed in human history: it gathered. It has a function in human society. So, I feel like that shapes how I do things.”

In this episode we speak with Damon Garcia. Damon talks to us about how he found meaning in the God of liberation theology after questioning his beliefs and leaving the faith he inherited. We explore the importance of embodiment and community in faithful practice and how our context shapes our ideas about God. We talk about reading the Bible from the perspective of the marginalised through the example of the Magnificat and the call to listen to those on the underside of power.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Jemimah McAlpine chat about Damon’s ideas, and the role liberation theology might in play in the reconstruction of their faith.

Interview starts at 14m 41s

Image used with permission

RESOURCES

Damon’s YouTube Channel

BOOK

The God Who Riots: Taking Back the Radical Jesus

QUOTES

“There are only a few things that really matter, and any conception of God that we keep in the 21st Century needs to be a conception of God that actually leads to liberation and justice.”

“The thing God is doing in the world is liberation – that is THE action of God, the deed of God; that is what God is doing. And so, to have any sort of relationship with this God means aligning myself with the work of liberation and justice.”

“So many movements for justice that may seem scary right now are actually part of the larger liberative work of God. And we should join in.”

I grew up in a working-class household on an estate in Essex and spirituality and faith were just not part of my general thoughts or experience. This was mostly because my childhood was traumatic and at times emotionally abusive and neglectful and this led to me having a severe eating disorder from the age of 12. By 17 my Bulimia was out of control and my mental health was failing and I began to have thoughts about ending my life. It was in this backdrop that I began calling out to God for help.   

One night in particular, I prayed in desperation to be given a sign that God was real to give me hope and a reason to carry on. I asked for a cross to be put in a patch of light coming from the street lights outside. I prayed with everything I had but nothing happened and I sobbed myself to sleep.

The next day my eye caught something on the wardrobe door. I got up to see what it was. There, under the veneer as a natural part of the wood but going against the grain, there was a distinct cross. The position of this cross would have been in a patch of light the night before. I remember thinking, SHIT…….what the fuck do I do now?

I decided to go to my nearest church on the next Sunday. I then had what I can only describe as a mystical encounter with God. I had an experience of being completely enveloped in love. Love like a tsunami washing over and through me until I was drenched. I thought, if this is God, then I want to be part of it and I fully opened myself to that love.

At the end of the service I was so shocked by what happened that I turned to the person next to me and (unfamiliar with how you speak in church) said, “You are never going to believe what just fucking happened to me.” What I did not know then but came to realise in the coming days was that this love had set me free from my eating disorder. It had just gone. I cannot explain how incomprehensible this was to me because Bulimia utterly ruled my life and eating disorders are complex compulsive mental health conditions that you cannot just snap out of.

I threw myself into being a Christian, but right from the get-go I struggled with church. I was thrown into purity culture, feeling guilty and shameful about sin and encouraged to evangelise. I was told anyone who did not accept Jesus was going to hell and would suffer eternal torment. I simply could not believe that the love I encountered would ever let that happen. The church did not like my love of fantasy and science fiction and said it was evil and harmful and encouraged me to give up this part of myself. I saw intense prejudice towards people not of faith, different religions and sexual orientation, and anyone deemed sinful. The church was also deeply patriarchal and controlling. Yet at the same time I was told I was free of sin, had been forgiven and the Jesus I read about seemed to embody the love I had encountered despite the church not seeming to do so. It was very confusing but I was discouraged from questioning anything.

Over the next four years I became increasingly upset by the Christian Churches I attended. I witnessed and suffered, in my opinion, huge spiritual abuse in that time.  For a while I allowed this trauma to overshadow the amazing experience of love I had in the beginning. I increasingly rejected church and God and eventually stopped attending or being a practicing Christian.

However, the encounter with God’s love never left me. So slowly, I separated church from that experience and used it like a compass to look for love with that essence in the world. It was a painful, lonely path but gradually I began seeing this love in nature and in people and in creativity and realised it did not have to be connected to Christianity. At first it seemed like a trickle of things, but over the years this grew until it seemed like this love was everywhere, underpinning and threading through everything.  Over time my faith honed itself down to being very simple- God is love.

Free from church I could practice my faith any way I wanted and I began enjoying that freedom. A walk in the woods, paddling in the sea, being creative, singing and silence became regular spiritual practices.

I yearned however to find connection with others on a spiritual level to the point it became an ache. There had been times in church, despite all that troubled me there, when I had felt so connected with others and God’s love. It was a feeling of ‘oneness’ and I found myself increasingly missing this. Sometimes this would lead me back to Christian churches to try again but the experience was always eventually traumatic. I also tried Quaker services but found I needed more than silence.

Over time however, I began encountering some places of spiritual belonging especially, NOMAD, its Book Club, the Beloved Listener Lounge, The Clearing in the Forest, and the Evolving Faith Community. I also found a Spiritual Soul Friend to discuss things with. I came to realise many other people had issues with aspects of the Christian church and its doctrine. I realised that what I had been going through was a deconstruction and reconstructing of my faith. Then in around October 2020, I came to know about and began attending, a Unitarian Church online.

Most Unitarian churches in the UK are not affiliated to any religion and members can follow their own spiritual path. The community gathers to connect spiritually around central themes like love, and unity but there are no doctrines to follow. I had never heard of Unitarianism but many of the churches are hundreds of years old. There do appoint ministers which concerned me as I remain very sceptical of hierarchy in faith settings and I personally believe that we do not need spiritual leaders.

However, the minister there reassured me that his role was only to facilitate others to find their own spiritual path as a role of service. Each individual church and its members decide what happens in their services. At the church I attend, readings, poems, music and personal contributions can come from many different sources and religions. The congregation are actively included in services and our members are multi-generational and come from a variety of religions or none and have varied backgrounds. People of all genders, races and sexual orientation are made equally welcome. God is referred to with both male, female and gender neutral pronouns or simply as being love and I find all of this less triggering. At the first service I attended they played a song from the Lord of the Rings films and it made me cry to hear it because I realised that I would not need to reject parts of myself and the things I loved to be part of this community and that I had found a spiritual home.

I have had some profound moments of connecting with people spiritually in community now and it has made me realise that church does not have to be harmful or controlling and can take many forms and that we can come together spiritually in unity with God’s love with compassion for one another. I still have questions that I do not know the answers to spiritually yet, particularly why there is so much suffering and what Jesus is to me in my faith. But today, as I write to you, I feel at peace. I am content with where I am spiritually and with who I am right now.

This is What I Have Come to Know.

When doubt explodes through our chambers

Detonating foundations that were integral stones

Blasting us till we loose ourselves

And the shrapnel embeds in our soul

I have come to know

Only loves hands can find the wreckage

It is the only balm for wounds

Too deep for stitches

And the amputation of faith

Only love

When the wilderness echo’s with isolation

Aching with loneliness as you resound alone

And scorched sun evaporates hope

Till you thirst to dry bone

I have come to know

Only love can line the marrow

Or pull rain from empty skies

Making an oasis of your quarantine

And rivers to belonging

Only love

When death defies this truth

Bringing grief to hollow you to husk

And your walls fall in the crush of that pain

And even love lies with the loss in the rubble

I have come to know

Only further love can find the crawl space.

and dig the desperate debris with you

or lie in the dark long side you

Till the tomb opens

Only love

And I no longer care

If Jesus was born of a virgin

Or was God made man

Or lived without sin

Or died for us

Or rose again

Or if this was just a story

I have come to know

It does not matter

It only matters if love was there

Because this is the way

Only love

And when this does not seem enough

To cover the suffering despite this truth

Despite knowing there is nothing else

I am coming to know

Still, even here it remains all there can be

In answer

So, this is all I will hold the face of

And somehow, I will keep seeking it

Till it is enough

Till I know,

Only love.

– Susan Carleton

Ched Myers is a theologian, and author of the explosive Binding the Strong Man: A Political Reading of Mark’s Story of Jesus.

We asked Ched to reflect on the theology and ecology of rivers for this extended devotional podcast. He takes us on a journey down the Ventura river, where he lives in California, and goes on to open up the radical political imagination of the many biblical visions of rivers, in a world where colonisation and empire habitually steal water and turn fertile places into deserts.

Image used with permission

WEBSITE

Ched Myers

BOOKS

Binding the Strong Man: A Political Reading of Mark’s Story of Jesus

Healing Haunted Histories: A Settler Discipleship of Decolonization

Watershed Discipleship: Reinhabiting Bioregional Faith and Practice

QUOTES

“The river cuts through these layers of history, exposing – if we have eyes to see – a stratigraphy tortured by the tectonic pressures of empire.”

“Water is what we take for granted most and yet it is emerging as perhaps the central issue for our planet on the verge of a nervous breakdown. Water injustice and disparity has become a global social issue as well. ‘When one person drinks while another can only watch,’ says a Turkish proverb, ‘Doomsday will follow.’”

“Our lands are parched not by nature, but by imperial hubris. In such a world, biblical visions of redemption as ‘rehydration’ – of the quenching of every thirst, especially those marginalized – continue to be compelling. Our task is to persuade our faith communities to reclaim them for our political imagination, our theology, and our practices of justice.”

It was a beautiful fall day, and I was riding passenger seat in my new friend’s car. We had been spending the day getting to know each other and it seemed extra special, for making new friends as an adult doesn’t seem to happen that often, at least not in my life. A couple of months previous, I was speaking at the women’s retreat she was attending and we were lunching at the same table. The conversation found us sharing ministry stories and exchanging phone numbers for we realized we only lived a short 45 min drive from one another and had determined that this first conversation would not be our last.

Image used with permission

But on this day, as we were driving, still in the early stages of our friendship, she asked me a question that would ultimately help redirect my current course. Perhaps put a different way, this question would shape the next leg of my journey.  I didn’t know it at the time, even as I felt the shift inside me, but it would be instrumental in starting the reconstruction of my personal deconstruction of faith.

She was a pastor’s wife and worship leader on her own journey, asking her own questions, and trying to maintain all the expectations and equilibrium that her roles conferred upon her with grace. But we had gone deep, fast; bypassing all the regular get-to-know-you chit chat that usually accompanies budding relationships. Instead we had spent our hours talking about the nitty-gritty of ministry—the hurts, pains, and disappointments over the years; the internal changes we were experiencing and the questions we wanted to ask but felt we couldn’t, especially because we were in ministry; the struggles as women in the male dominated world of church leadership; and the cruelty of people that compounds pain when following God is hard enough on its own. Sure, we had moments of levity and shared some gut busting laughter, but we were two women that needed someone who could identify with life in ministry and with whom we could unload it all and we found that in each other. That deep-dive solidified our friendship.

The question came not as an indictment or inquisition of judgment but as a sincere quest for understanding. It came from an interest in trying to better understand this stranger in her car. It came in response to her own processing, thinking maybe I could help her answer a bit of the question for herself. It came as a nudge from the Divine asking me to take stock.

I had spent a good portion of that day expressing my disdain for things about faith, church, and Christian leadership I could no longer stomach. I had talked about the conflation of nationalism and evangelicalism and how parts of it reminded me of Nazi Germany. I talked about the ease of attending seeker sensitive churches, but how it was so exhausting to keep it all going from the inside. I questioned the on-going decline of church membership in the global west and the majority of church leaders to double-down on what was obviously not working already. And on and on it had gone until, she asked me, “So, what are you for?”

You can be sure I was quick with a response even if it was pithy and lacked sincerity. I had learned well the verse, “be prepared, in season and out, to always give an answer for the hope that you have,” and from all my talking earlier, I was not about to fall silent on this question. However, this question was different. This question had hooks, and it was lodged inside me; it wouldn’t let me go. I had been in a major deconstruction period for a number of years, even though I wouldn’t know that was happening or have language to describe it for another year or so. I was seriously dissecting my faith and my on-going role in religious life. I questioned my theological training, the role of Scripture, the reality of God, the activity of prayer, the Christian narrative I inherited, heaven and hell, the historicity of Christ, and whatever else struck this Enneagram 5 brain of mine. I not only took it all apart, but I inspected every piece, turning each one over and over again, looking for flaws, seeking understanding, and coming up with alternatives and/or solutions to the things that didn’t fit. My desire for authenticity, honesty, and continuity between thought and expression is what made me a good minister, but it would’ve made me a good lawyer, too, because that’s what I had been doing. I had been holding cultural Christianity up to the light and asking it to account for itself—it wasn’t faring well.

And now, here I was, being asked to give account by a friend who was, just hours earlier, a near stranger. I had spent so much time expressing what I was against; now I was being charged to say what I was for. What was I for? Why did I still care? Why not just throw in the towel and walk away? What kept me believing? Why was I still preaching even in the midst of my doubt and uncertainty? What was I for?

That was years ago, now, and I’ve thought about that question many times since then. It has become a sort of litmus for where I am in co-creating with God a world that looks more like heaven than hell. This is because there is a real danger in getting stuck in a cycle of negativity, a cycle that is focused on the failures of the system and what it isn’t rather than the possibilities of a better way forward and what could be. Having experienced my own deconstruction and in talking with others about their deconstruction journeys, while also seeing the cultural shift taking place at this unique time in history, I have no doubt that identifying and naming and speaking out about what a person is against is a normal part of the deconstruction process. But, I will not pretend that it concerns me, as someone who is for Christianity (as it can/could be), that many are stuck deconstructing and when they are finished, with nothing left to take apart, they will have no one to ask them, “What are you for?” It is in focusing on what is redemptive and good and noble and kind and beautiful and honest and better that we turn the corner from deconstructing to reconstructing. It is, perhaps, when we make peace with the past, being able to find the treasures among the trash that we find ourselves closer to the promised land rather than the place that at one time we felt constrained. The wilderness of the process becomes a place of seeing more clearly what is worth hanging onto, even if the treasures are a bit battered and marred from the journey.

So today, here are some things I’m for that give me hope and motivate me to keep moving forward. I’m for:

Jesus

Holding things and people and ideas loosely

Prayer, the silent, abiding kind

Embracing the many names and ways people refer to the Divine Mystery that I happen to most often refer to as God

A non-literal, historical, literary reading of Scripture

Midrash

Finding Church outside of the church

Grace

The with-ness of God

How to think, not necessarily what to think

Embracing the wisdom and practices of other faith traditions that bring us into contact with God and others

Asking better questions

Honoring all the emotions that come with being human

Seeing God in the dark and the light

Mystery

Doubt, uncertainty, and not knowing

By no means is this a comprehensive list, but these are things that shape my days in the present. I expect that this list will be written and rewritten many times over, and I’m here for it. Many of these things are a departure from my Christian upbringing and stand in contrast to my theological training, but I am thankful for those things that gave me a context from which to grow and change and evolve. And, I’m so very thankful for a friend that asked me a simple question, not knowing the profound impact it would have on me.

Wherever you’ve been? Wherever you are? Wherever you might find yourself in the future: What are you for?

– Amanda Oster

Before the October Rebellion of 2019, we interviewed Dr Gail Bradbrook, co-founder of Extinction Rebellion, for the Everybody Now podcast. However, the whole conversation was so utterly fascinating that we wanted to upload it in its entirety, especially at a time when the freedom to protest is under threat.
We talked to Gail about climate emergency and civil disobedience, and also about prayer and spirituality, science and wonder, sacredness, love and the radical power of women.
We talked to Gail about climate emergency and civil disobedience, but also about prayer and spirituality, science and wonder, sacredness, love and the radical power of women.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and David Blower chat about Gail’s activism and spiritual journey and ponder how it might shape their own spirituality.

Interview starts at 19m 21s

Image used with permission

WEBSITE

Extinction Rebellion

RESOURCES

This Is Not A Drill: An Extinction Rebellion Handbook

Three Lessons of Revolutionary Love – Valarie Kaur

QUOTES

“The price of love is grief, and grief opens the space for love. And I think that’s what’s happening right now, we’re facing what we’ve been doing to our home. And our home is heaven on earth.”

“If you are deliberately deciding to break the law, it has an element of ‘trickster’ in it as well – it has an element of mischief in it potentially – but certainly an element of sacred service.”

In this episode we talk about Jesus with the Franciscan friar and founder of the Center for Action and Contemplation, Richard Rohr.
Fr. Richard believes Jesus is the personification of God’s constant, unfolding work in the world. Consequently, he sees faith as being less about proving Jesus was God, and more about learning to recognise the Creator’s presence all around us and in everyone we meet.

Continue reading

I call myself a transitions nurse. I have been a nurse for many years, I worked labor and delivery for about 15 years, and worked hospice for four. So I do “comings” and “goings”. There are some very real similarities in the journeys that intrigue me. Certainly my outlook on life is affected by these experiences, which for the most part have been the experiences of others…I am involved with these huge moments in people’s lives in a very peripheral way. I like to think that I will be better at dying because of the work I have done with the dying…but I thought the same thing about birthing and I didn’t notice any significant upgrade of my aptitude in labor.

Image used with permission

Most of my wonder at the similarities between dying and birth are more about the course of labor that the mother experiences rather than how the infant experience the same process. The physical process of labor and the physical process of dying are uniquely akin. As an observer in both circumstances – I note that the questions asked are: “Is this going to hurt?” “How long will it take?” The resolutions are: “I am tired, I am done, I cannot do this anymore.” So just as I say I am a transitions nurse; I often feel that in Hospice – I am a midwife for the dying process in the same way that I midwife’d women through the labor process.

Labor and dying are both these huge physical processes. Those of us not doing the birthing or the dying are on the sidelines, watching, trying to help but disconnected, at least physically, from the process. We cannot interfere in the process without damaging it somehow. Because each situation is unique I cannot memorize a path, or way to get through it, that is definitively helpful for everyone. Everyone labors differently and everyone dies singularly. I can help you negotiate through the rocks in the river of your dying but I cannot paddle the boat for you. I can give you the tools you will need to maneuver, but you will have to determine their worth.

However, even though we cannot do the dying and birthing for another, emotional and spiritual support affects people. Support is what I think helps the most and in the end is it all we have to offer. We support the laboring woman by giving her a safe place to labor, by relieving her pain, by teaching her what is happening. We do the same for the dying. The place of safety is often the home, where one still has at least a semblance of control; but it can be in the hospital, depending on the circumstances. It isn’t a question of morality. One can birth “the right way” in the hospital or at home; and one can die “the right way” in either place also. Having a choice, a say in the matter, is hugely important. This is one way that my work has affected more humdrum aspects of my life. I tell my family my detailed plans for my death…even I, to whom birth and death has become an everyday thing, have superstitions surrounding my death that have made me hesitant to commit a plan to writing. However, a plan is imperative. Talking to one’s family makes all the decisions easier. Remember, as difficult as it is to make these decisions for oneself; families are even more conflicted. Giving your family the gift of knowing they are following your wishes may be your last legacy of love.

This brings us to another similarity in the process of birth and death, the plan versus reality. Just as one may not always get the planned for birth experience…one may not get the dying they wanted. There are no guarantees, not in birth, life or even in death with the one exception that we get one. In other words, we get a birth, we get a life and we get a death – but that is all we can count on. Maybe in death (like life) it isn’t what happens to you that matters most, it is how you handle it, how you react. These reactions make us who we are during life and we are who we are as we die.

I always felt that women tend to labor like they get angry; some introspective and quiet, some wildly vocal. People die within their personalities. It is infrequent that families comment that their loved one’s personality had radically changed as they died. The inner spark that makes us who we are doesn’t change much. Difficult people don’t tend to get less difficult, the accommodating are inclined to remain accommodating. An awareness of this may help, not only in dealing with loved ones who are dying, but also in thinking of our own deaths.

So in being a transitions nurse, a midwife of life and death, a travel guide for the dying; what have I learned? I have learned essentially that letting go is not the same as giving up. Committing our spirit to the next adventure is not an abandonment of the current one. Like many adventures, it is often harder on those who are left behind than the voyager himself. I know how I want to die; it isn’t so much that I want to die of this rather than that, it is that I want a smile on my face and love in my heart. I want to die excited about the next step…and that really, is how I want to live also. Maybe, just maybe, by living that way – I am practicing my dying.

– Kari Lane

We live in a death and grief averse culture. Aided by modern medicine and the funeral industry, we’ve created an ever-increasing distance between us and our mortality. So we ask author of Awakened by Death Christiana Peterson what psychological and spiritual impact this is having on us, and how reclaiming a healthy relationship with our own mortality might help us live fuller and richer lives.

Following the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Anna Robinson reflect on their own experiences of death, how it challenged their previous evangelical faith, and whether a more progressive faith might be better able to hold such experiences.

Interview starts at 15m 8s

Image used with permission

WEBSITE

Christiana Peterson

RESOURCES

Awakened by Death: Life-Giving Lessons from the Mystics

Mystics and Misfits: Meeting God Through St. Francis and Other Unlikely Saints

It’s Ok That You’re Not Ok: Meeting Grief and Loss in a Culture That Doesn’t Understand – Megan Divine

Empathy vs Sympathy – Brené Brown

PERMISSIONS

Helen Dunmore, Hold Out Your Arms (25 May 2017) Counting Backwards: Poems 1975-2017 (Bloodaxe Books, 2019)

PUBLIC DOMAIN PODCASTS

In this episode we talked about a new series of public domain podcasts we’re producing. If you’d like to support these, visit our fundraising page.

QUOTES

“A hundred percent of us are going to die and not acknowledging that causes us even more pain and suffering in the end.”

“The fear of death becomes something that infiltrates our lives in ways we don’t always recognize. For instance, with the environment, as we move further and further away from the way our food is made or from nature, then we become less willing to give up the things that are harming to the environment.”

“Outsourcing death often has an effect on the way that we accept loss and the way that we grieve; that often times, maybe we limp through life without our griefs really being fully moved-through.”

I always hoped I wouldn’t be asked to ‘share my testimony’ at university Christian Union in the 90s, because I didn’t have an exceptional conversion story. And likewise, I don’t have an exceptional deconstruction story either.  But in nearly half a century on this planet, the truth is there are ten thousand stories I could tell – none spectacular, but stories nonetheless. So today, this is the story I’m telling.

Image used with permission

I grew up as a Christian, but in Northern Ireland in the 70s and 80s that is an unremarkable observation to make about your upbringing. It seemed that everyone believed in God, and the only difference I could see was the Catholic or Protestant telling of the same Christian stories. And we were Anglicans, so that was already shady territory in Northern Irish Protestantism, making us as good as Catholic in the eyes of some. My early faith story is easy to tell – Sunday school, church, Bible stories and bedtime prayers. Certainty.

It was when I went to high school, that I first got asked the question that opened up my first existential fear: “Are you born again?” I honestly didn’t know the answer. I asked mum when I went home, and she said it was just the way some people talked about following Jesus, but it opened up a fear for me, that I wasn’t doing it right, that what I believed wasn’t enough, that I’d be found out. This fear would regularly return throughout teenage years, as friends got baptised (I got confirmed), went to beachside missions (I went to the beach, without the mission), ‘saved’ their boyfriend (I didn’t have a boyfriend to save) or berated Catholics (I secretly thought they were much cooler, seemed to have more fun and was pretty convinced they too were Christians).

I moved to Scotland at the age of 18 to go to university, and I suddenly had relative freedom from labels and judgements that I didn’t realise were there. I was involved in the Christian Union and also volunteered with the local Scripture Union doing schools work – in other words, a model Christian young person. But still, I had fear. I didn’t seem to have the evangelising gene, so when there was a ‘mission week’ at CU, I’d studiously avoid bringing any of my non-christian friends and often avoid going myself. If I believed in the Gospel (which I passionately did) why did I not want to actively convert others? I feared that one day I would be found out as a non-evangelising evangelical.

One summer during uni I lived and worked at an ecumenical centre for reconciliation on the border between the north and south of Ireland. That summer mucked up all my neat boxes! The people there were charismatic yet ecumenical, mystical yet deeply grounded and straight-talking. They were Catholic and Protestant and they were deeply connected to the Celtic roots of the land, which was intoxicating for me. And they shared their faith through love and healing, not through evangelising. I felt like here I could be myself and not feel afraid that I wasn’t enough.  When I think of ‘thin places’ in the Celtic tradition, where the divine comes close, I think of that place and that summer in my life.

I said that there are no blinding lights in my story, but in this retelling of my story, there is a pivotal moment that comes to mind.

After university I moved to Glasgow where I was part of an evangelical church.  I was on the organising committee for an arts event we were hosting. We had agreement from the church leadership that, unlike the previous event two years earlier, this one would be more outward reaching, to create opportunities for the church members to meet members of the local community, and vice versa.

I had the idea of running some poetry workshops, in the few weeks leading up to the event, culminating in a poetry reading and exhibition. We were excited that connecting people with their own story through poetry could open their hearts and minds to meaning and purpose. By this stage, I was very open to what that meant, and had long given up on the idea that people would have momentous conversions – certainly not through anything I organised! I had lined up a poet from the local community to run two workshops, and then on the weekend of the event, we would run a third workshop ourselves exploring the Psalms as poetic expression. I was really excited and felt I was being my authentic self in the church I belonged to; so when, one week before the first workshop, I was told that the elders were pulling the pin on the poetry workshops, I was devastated. The reason? The local poet I had enlisted to help wasn’t a Christian. I was livid. How could this church expect to ‘reach’ its local community’s hearts and souls, if they were not prepared to allow people to find their own voice and open up to their own story – without always having to have that with a serve of the gospel on the side? My non-evangelistic faith was suddenly in stark contrast to that of my church, and it felt personal.

Soon afterwards, through a chance encounter, I stumbled across a group of people who, for the past 20 years, had been living as a faith community outside church walls. I fell in love with them and their irreverent yet deeply Christ-filled ways, and I felt almost instantly caught between worlds. I went to my evangelical church on a Sunday and this community on a Monday, and felt like they were worlds apart. Around this time I also fell in love with Paul, my now husband, a man who does not profess to any faith, and yet it felt like I’d met my soulmate. It was he who observed that increasingly I was choosing my Monday nights over my Sunday mornings.

What stopped me making a decision sooner about church, even before I stumbled on this new community or before I met Paul, was my old friend fear. Fear of what my parents would say if I left church, fear that I was ‘falling away’, fear of the anxiety and concern I would cause so many others, fear that, as a (former) youth worker, I would drag others down with me who had seen me as some sort of Christian leader. Yet it became clear what the authentic me had to do, and so I left.

In 2009 Paul and I left Glasgow with our two-year old daughter, and moved to his hometown of Adelaide, in South Australia. I haven’t managed to replace that community on this side of the planet, but I think I always knew I wouldn’t.  But in the last ten years, I increasingly feel I have found genuine and honest spiritual connection in new ways, including within the Nomad community, for which I am hugely grateful.

Sometimes I wonder if I have just run away from the hard stuff. It is definitely easier to be fully myself when I am a long way from the place of my birth, from a culture where I find it hard to

explore faith and alternative forms of spiritual expression. One day I want to feel I can authentically be myself when I go home. But that’s not my story yet, and for today, the story I tell is this unfinished one, where, most days, I don’t fear anymore that I’ve got it wrong.

– Melanie Lambert

This is a conversation about the experience of the experience of spiritual abuse. Reflecting on their personal experiences, therapists Justin and Joy explore the impact of spiritual abuse, describing how they learnt to recognise it and what it was like to walk away from congregations they cared about deeply. They also share some of the healing and growth that has taken place as their lives changed and they began to recover and rebuild in different areas of their lives.

We have made this conversation public domain, so you are free to turn it into an episode on your own podcast. We ask that you don’t edit the conversation, but please do feel free to add your own introduction and reflections. We also ask that you acknowledge Nomad Podcast.

Click on the download button to access the MP3 and WAV files, and guest images and bios.

Images used with permission

QUOTES

“It’s no longer about wanting to prove that something happened, but it’s about wanting to bring something that feels so shameful into the light. And it’s about wanting to reach out a hand to anyone else who might have been in, or is in that situation and say, ‘You’re not on your own.’”

“The thing that makes spiritual abuse over just a simple power dynamic is that there’s an eternal aspect or an eternal dynamic to it, which is if you aren’t obedient, you might not get as good a place in heaven, or you might run the risk of not making it, or there’ll be some judgement attached to it. There’s a sense of you’re doing it not for the leader or for the church, but you’re working for God. So, it’s almost like the human leader is putting himself in the place of God and you can’t really argue with a deity, can you? You can’t really argue with God.”

Click on the subscribe button if you’d like to be added to a mailing list to be kept aware of future public domain podcasts.

This is a conversation about the experience of the experience of women in church. Jemimah and Joy reflect on their experiences as women who grew up immersed in evangelical Christianity. Unpicking some of the messages they absorbed over the years, they examine what it means for them to move away from repression and reconnect with their embodied and internal experiencing. Learning to value their own voice, they also explore the responsibility that comes with agency and privilege within their respective communities.

We have made this conversation public domain, so you are free to turn it into an episode on your own podcast. We ask that you don’t edit the conversation, but please do feel free to add your own introduction and reflections. We also ask that you acknowledge Nomad Podcast.

Click on the download button to access the MP3 and WAV files, and guest images and bios.

Images used with permission

QUOTES

“The message I grew up with seemed to be having strong opinions was not ‘submitting’ in the way that we should be. I think it undermines confidence in listening to yourself, in valuing how you respond to something. If you’re troubled by something and yet told that actually this is how it is – and the leaders and the men or whoever is creating it have done it like that – and you feel a bit troubled with it, it turns the issue around onto yourself. You become the issue, rather than actually maybe I have something to offer here that could help. And maybe actually I should be valuing how I’m responding.”

“What happened in that story that I described didn’t feel like I was finally able to be a ‘true woman’; it just felt like I was able to be who I was created to be – a human. And I feel like the things we’ve been describing – systems that suppress certain aspects of our humanity – is applicable to everyone regardless of gender.”

Click on the subscribe button if you’d like to be added to a mailing list to be kept aware of future public domain podcasts.

This is a conversation about the experience of disability. Zoe is a priest in the Church of England and for many years has suffered with chronic pain, which often means she has to use a wheelchair. Nick works for the Christian charity Cord and hosts Nomad Podcast. He has been visually impaired since he was a teenager.  Zoe and Nick talk openly and honestly about their experience of disability, how it has shaped their life, faith, and experience of church, and how they’ve come to understand what it means to be whole.

We have made this conversation public domain, so you are free to turn it into an episode on your own podcast. We ask that you don’t edit the conversation, but please do feel free to add your own introduction and reflections. We also ask that you acknowledge Nomad Podcast.

Click on the download button to access the MP3 and WAV files, and guest images and bios.

Images used with permission

QUOTES

“For me the kind of consistent theology that I know I can feel on firm ground with is God is here in the midst of this. When people say, ‘Why me?’ my natural reflex is, ‘Well, why not you?’ Life is how it is. And it’s a mixture of everything for everybody actually. And so the Christ figure Jesus coming and living in that and showing us that that’s not all there is and that that it’s not an end does feel like really safe ground for me. Because I’ve experienced that – God breaking into those moments when I dare to reach out when I’m in a difficult place…and nothing particularly changes, but that sense of God being with you is really transformative somehow.”

“I just think the way [Jesus] lived rather than the way he died is more interesting. And more helpful in terms of us as people trying to live a faithful life. But then the resurrection is kind of the next level of that really. So, the fact that he came back with scars means that the story’s never wasted and that our scars tell our story. That feels very real to me.”

Click on the subscribe button if you’d like to be added to a mailing list to be kept aware of future public domain podcasts.

This is a podcast about what it means to be human on the threshold of a global climate emergency, in a time of systemic injustice and runaway pandemics. Scientists, activists, farmers, poets, and theologians talk bravely and frankly about how our biosphere is changing, about grief and hope in an age of social collapse and mass extinction, and about taking action against all the odds.

We have made this episode public domain, so you are free to upload it onto your own podcast feed. We ask that you don’t edit the episode, but please do feel free to add your own introduction and reflections. We also ask that you acknowledge Nomad Podcast, and the producers Tim Nash and David Benjamin Blower. Please also list the contributors and permissions in your show notes.

Click on the download button to access the MP3 and WAV files, permissions, and guest images and bios.

Having left behind the Anglican roots of her childhood, Jennifer Kavanagh discovered the Society of Friends – better known as Quakerism – as an adult. We spoke to her about how to be a practical mystic, how to subvert hierarchies by being silent, how to be part of a Christian religion without being a Christian, how to have a church without a leader, and what not to call the Queen.

Following the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and David Blower reflect on the faith they inherited, what it means to be a Christian, and what Quakerism might offer their evolving faith.

Interview starts at 13m 24s

Image used with permission

BOOKS

The World Is Our Cloister: A Guide to the Modern Religious Life

Quaker Quicks – Practical Mystics: Quaker Faith in Action

A Little Book of Unknowing

Heart of Oneness: a Little Book of Connection

QUOTES

“We gather in what I think of as expectant silence. It’s a listening. It’s a waiting. It’s passive in that we are waiting to receive, but it is not passive in that nothing is happening. And we’re waiting to be guided how to live our lives. It’s very much linked to what we do in the world. And so we may receive something directly, or from something that somebody else says. We may not feel anything at all; quite often we don’t feel anything at all. But I always feel changed, I always feel more at peace. And maybe something will happen that reverberates later. Something emerges, but comes from that time.”

“I think of it at a triangle: self, the divine, and the others in the room. And we take that out into the world, so that we work with others and through others and with the divine in terms of what we do. It’s about our connectedness – we are all connected.”

“It’s about having a sense that something exists, but not that we can necessarily say what it is; that we might all have very different experiences of the divine. And I think the moment you try to define it, it’s to reduce it to human proportions.”

This is a conversation about the experience of race. Writer, broadcaster, and Head of Community Fundraising and Public Engagement at Christian Aid Chine McDonald and writer and Church of England Priest Azariah France Wiliams discuss their understanding and experience of blackness and how that has shaped their identity, their place in society and the way they relate to God and Church.

We have made this conversation public domain, so you are free to turn it into an episode on your own podcast. We ask that you don’t edit the conversation, but please do feel free to add your own introduction and reflections. We also ask that you acknowledge Nomad Podcast, and the producers Tim Nash and David Benjamin Blower.

Click on the download button to access the MP3 and WAV files, and guest images and bios.

Images used with permission

BOOKS

A. D. A France Williams – Ghost Ship: Institutional Racism and the Church of England

Chine McDonald – God Is Not a White Man: And Other Revelations

QUOTES

“I spent a month on the island of Nevis working with the Anglican church and all the priests are Black. And so…when you’re the majority group, you just think of yourself as you. You’re just free to be a human. I was just free to be Azariah then with my other priestly colleagues. Whereas here, I do feel like I’m ‘Azariah the Black priest.’ And I’ve got to work against things.”

“People talk about ‘code switching’…how we adjust our language, our postures to who we think is the dominant in the setting. And so I’m just aware of how often I’ve been shifting myself in order to accommodate what I perceive to be the cultural norms of a setting instead of feeling at ease and free to bring my whole self.”

Click on the subscribe button if you’d like to be added to a mailing list to be kept aware of future public domain podcasts.

Following on from our conversation with Matthew Fox, in this episode Anna Robinson leads us in a meditation that explores the spirituality of the remarkable 14th Century mystic Julian of Norwich. Anna gives us a short introduction to Julian and how she lived through a deadly global pandemic, suffered loss and yet still wholeheartedly pursued God, and received visions that Christians are still pondering nearly seven centuries later. Anna then uses a breathwork technique to help us to become present and more relaxed and then leads us in a lectio divina mediation based around some of Julian’s words. Anna then finishes with a short examen and closing prayer. 
Anna produces meditations like this each month. To access them simply sign up and make a small monthly donation to the work of nomad, either via Patreon or our own donation platform.

Image used with permission

BOOK

Showings Of Julian Of Norwich: A New Translation

Julian of Norwich: Wisdom in a Time of Pandemic-And Beyond

Matthew Fox is an American priest and spiritual theologian and an activist for gender and eco-justice. His work on creation spirituality and mysticism has given him the reputation of being one of the most challenging religious-spiritual teachers in America. It’s also got him into trouble with the Catholic Church, most notably for rubbing two popes up the wrong way, which eventually got him excommunicated.

We speak with Matthew about his latest book Julian of Norwich: Wisdom in a Time of Pandemic-And Beyond, and ask him what this 14th Century mystic can teach us about what it means to live well in the midst of a global pandemic and climate meltdown.

Following the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Anna Robinson reflect on what Julian and mystics like her, might bring to their evolving faith.

Interview starts at 15m 47s

Image used with permission

WEBSITE

Matthew Fox

BOOKS

Julian of Norwich: Wisdom in a Time of Pandemic-And Beyond

Showings Of Julian Of Norwich: A New Translation

A New Reformation: Creation Spirituality and the Transformation of Christianity

Order of the Sacred Earth: An Intergenerational Vision of Love and Action

A Spirituality Named Compassion: Uniting Mystical Awareness with Social Justice

Original Blessing: A Primer in Creation Spirituality

QUOTES

“I don’t think we could understand [Julian of Norwich] until the 21st Century – until nature was in such jeopardy as we have rendered it today. And a big reason for the eco-crisis…is that religion has abandoned nature for so many centuries in the West and has forgotten to teach the sacredness of nature and the wonder of it all; the very teachings that Julian has laid out so richly. So, we’re ready for her now.”

“A pandemic is too valuable to waste. There are lessons humanity has to learn and learn fast – lessons of wisdom, instead of just knowledge; lessons of compassion, instead of just competition.”

“The mystics are truth-tellers. They get to the heart of what real religions is supposed to be about. People are looking for experience of God, not for theologies and so forth, but experiences.”

“Even despair is a sign of hope, insofar as recognizing how time is running out. This is what gets us off the couch. I think many humans and our systems – our institutions – do not change until they have to. And clearly, we have to. Nothing’s working well today and we have to move out of this modern consciousness that is so solipsistic, narcissistic and human-centred into the real world, which is our relationship with all beings in their wonder and beauty. And there we find hope.”

Never been married, never had children. The youngest of three, the bottom rank is where the novelty has worn off but the ‘fun’ never ends. I was ‘an excitable child’ so my namesake Roman Catholic Grandmother put it. Born in the latter part of the 70s there was still the unmistakable whiff of sexism not quite shifting under the strain of inequality. Being a sensitive child, both in observation and emotion, I knew there was unfairness, lots of it in the world and not just in my home. “It’s not FAIR!!” was my trademark line, as though this was supposed to demand people to see my point of view. It never worked. 

Image used with permission

I grew up in the countryside, in a small village on the borders of three counties in the Midlands, a quiet, boring village with three pubs and one bus that left at 7am and returned at 6pm. The village teens were to entertain themselves, and I had my best friend and some other school acquaintances living in the village. Luckily, I made friends easily, maybe not so good at keeping them, but I didn’t mind much being on my own. One girl and I went to the village church (Church of England) where my mother played the organ and I sang in the choir. 

I was confirmed at 13yrs, had a delightful vicar, John, with a distinctive shaky voice. He was patient and popular, even with my dad ‘the atheist’. Reverend John tutored me for my confirmation. I cannot forget his face after asking me a question, so gentle and kind. If only I knew what he was talking about. Somehow I made it to that first communion, there was a garden party and relatives, I didn’t know why. I felt better after going to church, lighter and fresher, it felt good just to sit for a while, but I still didn’t understand what for.

Fast forward through my secondary school (with smoking, drinking, detention and teachers with a “we-know-you-know-this” attitude) to my university career. I started university at 21yrs. By that time I had spent a ‘year-out’ in Australia to work and find myself. I wasn’t there. I chose to live in halls of residence. That year many life changing things happened, including becoming acquainted with heroin. University was ok, but the more I worked the less I was able to sleep or function. My head was always too excited, so heroin and I became good friends. A year later I came out of rehab. I tried something else. I attended the Christian club. We went on a weekend retreat where they talked about the bible and prayed, and I kept quiet, smoked outside and wondered why I was there. These Christians seemed so happy but in an unsustainable way, I didn’t get it. Life didn’t feel that easy for me. What didn’t I understand? I got a BSc in ‘science’ and went to France and studied for a masters ignoring this ‘imposter’ feeling. Luckily, I mostly understood my masters, there were no formal exams, just a written thesis. Phew!

With no real idea of what I should do next I just carried on along the academic trail, applying for a PhD at Oxford, went for an interview, and the professor, Tom, offered me the position “against his better judgement”. Are you kidding me? No I am not. We worked well together. Then I got ill and he got ill. He with cancer and me with a breakdown. I was diagnosed with Bipolar disorder in February 2011. We both survived.

My research practices took me into worlds I knew precious few would ever experience. Tom loved looking down the microscope too and we used to joke about God as I imagine most atheists do, nothing more than jibing, but it did leave a nasty aftertaste like I’d bad-mouthed an old friend.

Oxford, albeit an impressive intellectual power-house, I found to be an honourable place, one couldn’t get away with being insincere. There was a night at college dinner (name-drop coming) I was seated next to Prof. John Lennox. I hadn’t a clue who he was and after the usual pleasantries he asked, “Do you believe in God?”. I said, “No”, to which he replied, “Perhaps it’s best not to ask ‘why believe’ but ‘why not believe’?” That question has hung around my head since. I laugh at how provincial the concept of God in that conversation is to me now. 

I passed my viva. I lived in Canada for a year doing research, laughed at church billboards, had another breakdown and was diagnosed with ADHD. Finally, I gave up my career in science and moved back to my home village. Had another breakdown and was told I’m ‘on the spectrum’. 

I spend a lot of time on my own, but never feel alone. 

I needed an anchor in my life, something to rely on, because without a job and recovering from PTSD from an abusive relationship, I needed stability and predictability that I knew the C of E could give, so I started going to a new local small church with my mum. The remainder of the week I went on walks and meditated, and tried to keep going. The meditation cleared my mind enough to hear God come through and I suddenly felt interested in life again.

With a new spiritual zeal the vicar suggested I try a ministry course, I did the course and made friends but I decided, even though I was ‘well-up for God’, the C of E really wasn’t my thing. Now, I read a lot of Rohr, to whom I am forever grateful for saying it’s ok to be a different sort of Christian. I laugh a lot more, listen to my own spiritual guides via personal prayer and meditation and look for God in all forms be it through walks, meditation, animals, art… Nomad. 

I always knew I wasn’t on my own but now I am actually conversing with ‘them’, God, and life is starting to make more sense.

– Jojo Scoble

Adele Jarrett-Kerr is a writer and podcaster on compassionate living. Originally from Trinidad and Tobago, she now lives in Cornwall where her family is unschooling and working on a small regenerative farm. We talk to her about her journey towards counter-cultural living, decolonisation, evolving faith and spirituality, and the values behind the decisions she has made for family and work. 

Image used with permission

WEBSITES

Adele Jarrett-Kerr

Patreon

QUOTES

“I don’t want to be a part of the system that makes people feel that they’re only valuable based on how well they conform.”

“The word ‘revillaging’ was inspired by the word ‘rewilding.’ It’s not that humans have stopped being a part of nature, but we’ve stopped recognising that we are a part of nature. That as well is also a by-product of colonialism by the way, because that is not an indigenous way of seeing the world. An indigenous way of seeing the world is very much recognising that we are all lifeforms and we are a community of living things.”

Merry Christmas, beloved listeners!
In this episode we hear from Revd Canon Eve Pitts. Having missed Christmas in their church last year, due to repairs, the residents of Birchfield were looking forward carols and candles in their building. But 2020 being what it is, Eve wondered if Christmas might as well be cancelled all together. However, perhaps living in a time of restrictions, precarity and mess is all the more Christmassy. Eve reflects on the humanity of Mary, the messiness of birth, and the God who is found in the places where nobody wants to live.

Image used with permission

MUSIC

The Blood Magnetic – Epiphany

QUOTES

“We must remember the birth of Christ; the ‘vulnerableness’ of God. I love that: the God who is vulnerable. When I’m vulnerable, I remind myself that God made himself vulnerable, and that if Christmas reminds me of anything, it’s the vulnerability of God – the God who still sees us in all our messiness and our contrariness and still reminds us that he was prepared to be vulnerable in order to come to us.” 

“If God is not in the confusion and the messiness of our lives, then he’s not anywhere.”

Church on a Sunday morning meant singing, clapping, dancing, and watching the power men on stage fire bolts of spirit at people, knocking them to the floor. The service generally concluded with screaming, writhing exorcisms. It was always a sound that disturbed me, but at least it signaled it would soon be time for refreshments.

Imaged used with permission

At children’s camp when I was twelve there was an assembly line which manufactured spiritual experiences. As the children stood worshiping, a male church elder went from child to child, laying his hand on their foreheads. I always tried to avoid this kind of thing, but today I realised that I was standing in the line he was currently working on, and it was too late: he was already too close to make an unnoticed escape to the bathroom. When his hand finally made contact with my forehead, I felt only that it was warm. I waited for God to make me fall over backwards, but felt nothing except for increasing emotional pressure, with this man fervently praying in front of me and the pastor’s wife waiting from behind to catch me. After a tense few minutes I finally gave in and voluntarily fell backwards. As she lay me down the pastor’s wife whispered into my ear: “Well done, Kit, well done.”

A year or so later I was visiting an Anglican church with Mum. The service wasn’t charismatic, and so I wasn’t expecting anything dramatic to happen as I stood singing beside a pew during the worship. But suddenly I was regaining consciousness on the floor with no memory of falling, and no sensation of pain from hitting the pew or the ground. I felt only a vivid sense that I was enveloped by love and peace. A small group of adults had formed around me, and I heard one of them say to Mum “It’s reassuring, isn’t it?”

That question frames the struggles I went through as a young evangelical. The message of our church was the love of God and joy of salvation, but the service at the Anglican church was the only time I remember having any sense that this was real. My daily emotional reality was a constant state of anxiety over whether I was definitely still saved, and whether I was doing enough to save the people around me. I tried to suppress my fears of God, Satan, and hell, but they bubbled to the surface in nightmares of being left behind after the rapture, after which I would wake up and sit crying alone in my room.

But something clicked into place when I went to Leeds university, and the moments of reassurance started coming in more frequently. I went to small groups, prayer groups, prophetic sessions, camps and outreaches. I prayed and I fasted until I literally threw up. I would jump up and down, cry out in passion, and fall to my knees. I felt that being evangelical made me part of God’s special people, but I also felt that I was special among God’s people. Every time I did something that was regarded as spiritual, whether that was praying with a stranger, giving or receiving a prophetic word, or leading worship or Bible study, this egotistical belief was strengthened.

But in the final year of my degree in psychology, the tower came tumbling down. Thanks in part to a module on social constructionism, I came to the conclusion that three of the beliefs I had inherited were incorrect. The first was condemnation of homosexuality. I came to realise how sexual identity is a core part of who we are rather than an optional extra that we can choose, like the flavour of an ice cream. The idea of “love the sinner hate the sin” meant trying to eliminate an essential part of a person, and this wasn’t loving. The second was the doctrine of eternal hell as punishment for everyone who hasn’t made the right contract with Jesus. The third was how the Bible could possibly be the inerrant and inspired word of God when it contains so much divinely-sanctioned violence.

During this questioning I felt unsure but hopeful. I read Dave Tomlinson’s The Post-Evangelical and saw that I wasn’t alone, that there was already a path beyond my inherited faith that others had walked before me. And I had overwhelming experiences of joy and love in the Holy Spirit which I felt provided confirmation that this new path was still of God. So one morning while following my usual routine of praying in the morning before getting out of bed, it was sudden and unexpected when I realised that the presence of God had gone away. Until that moment I hadn’t been aware of the presence as I prayed each day, but now it was gone. I waited a week for it to return, after which began a rapid and intense spiral into atheism and rebellious enjoyment of so many things that I had been denied as an evangelical Christian. I dyed my hair red and wore it in spikes, got an eyebrow piercing, and started smoking, swearing, and taking drugs. Everything felt so open and new, and I realised I was now speaking to non-Christians as equals for the first time.

While life free from religion was thrilling and poignant in extremes that I had never before known, it was also dizzying, and I suffered from depression and loneliness. I didn’t feel that I could relate to my evangelical friends or family, which left me with no close relationships in Leeds. During the time when I was madly going about making new friends and trying new experiences, I realised that I needed to take some real time out to process these wild changes, and so made a plan: first graduate, and then fly to India and backpack around the world for a year. But as I was saving money for the trip, I lost the little remaining stability I had left. Psychologically I was under increasing strain, living in a house of evangelicals while my drug-fuelled partying became more frequent. I was also in a complex and emotionally demanding relationship with one of my new drug-taking friends. Finally my body put a stop to things with an intense case of glandular fever, which meant I had to stop working, postpone the trip, and go back to live with Mum and Dad with my tail between my legs while I recovered enough strength to make the flight.

It took three months of rest to get through the acute phase of the illness. I made it to Delhi, but was still highly susceptible to exhaustion and sickness, so during my travels through Asia I thirsted above all for rest. Physically this meant slow travel, moving on to a new location every week or so, and spending my time reading, journaling, enjoying local food, and taking gentle walks. Spiritually this thirst meant exploring the Eastern spiritual practices of Buddhist meditation, soft martial arts, and Taoism.

It was after leaving Asia and while working in a hospital in Wellington, New Zealand that I came across the word Reiki. On seeing it for the first time I clearly sensed that I was going to learn it, despite not knowing what the word meant. I got all of the books from the library that I could, found out that I would need a teacher, and so when my contract was over at the hospital I shouldered my backpack once more to begin the final stage of my year-long journey: walking and hitch-hiking the length of the south island to Dunedin, to find a Reiki teacher called Janine Joyce.

The Reiki course revealed an approach that was so much more gentle than my experiences with charismatic healing. The most powerful moment of the course was during the initiation ceremony. I was sitting with my eyes closed, hands in prayer position, while Janine completed the ritual. The silence was only broken by the gentle chime of a Tibetan singing bowl. At first I felt tense about what might be happening to me spiritually, but let go of that as I began to feel a rushing of heat inside and around me. In that moment came an intuitive knowing: after more than a year since God had withdrawn her presence from me, the energy that was now coursing through the room was my old friend the Holy Spirit.

This moment at the end of 2007 marked the beginning of a new chapter in my spiritual journey. Reiki revealed itself to me not as a replacement for a now invalid conception of God, but as a new manifestation of the same spirit. And this formed a bridge between my former experiences and the mystery that I was now discovering. This moment therefore was a returning as well as a renewing, and it began a process of healing and growing which continues to this day.

– Kit Johnson

Singer-songwriter and author Lisa Gungor’s life was all coming together. She’d married her college sweetheart and was establishing herself as a successful musician. But cracks began to form when her husband told her he no longer believed in God and they were asked to leave the Church she helped start, a close friend died, their baby girl was born with two heart defects, and her musical career began to unravel. But through the depression and despair she slowly began to let go of what she thought was true, and began to see hope and new life through these hardest of experiences.

After the interview Nomad hosts Jemimah McAlpine and Tim Nash reflect on their own evolving faith journey.

Interview starts at 13m 45s

Image used with permission

WEBSITES

Lisa Gungor

Isa Ma

Gungor

BOOK

The Most Beautiful Thing I’ve Seen: Opening Your Eyes to Wonder

QUOTES

“It’s really hard to follow your own voice in what you know to be true. I found myself wanting to explain to them – explain to everyone – why I was doing what I was doing; explain to them how my heart really felt like it was in the right place. My experience was that I was doing everything I could to follow God, follow truth, follow goodness, follow love, and it’s such an excruciating feeling when other people view that in a completely opposite way. So, it taught me a lot about following my own heart.”

“The more stories that we were exposed to, the more we realized our story wasn’t the only right thing; the ‘truth’ that we were handed was not the truth – it was a perspective of the truth.”

“A lot of us were given this story that the core of us is evil and we need something outside of ourselves to save us. And that’s not the truth. The truth is that it’s always been good and love has always been there. You’re created from love. You can never be outside of love.”

The tranquillity of the park where I sat in my favourite coffee shop with my two-year-old, did not reflect how I was feeling. As I gathered our things together, after a failed attempt for a moment of peace over my coffee, I heard it clearly. “Slow down.” The words came from deep inside. They stopped me in my tracks. I didn’t know then how life changing those words would become.

Image used with permission

I was struggling in my career, exhausted with young children, and living on edge at home. I felt that if I could just try harder I would make it through and my hard work would begin to pay off.

I had grown up in an evangelical church setting. I remember being baptised when I was 12 and being more excited about the scriptures that would be written in my baptism card by the pastors, than by the submersion itself. I was hoping to hear something special, to feel some connection with this God I was being told loved me. I was disappointed that both the chosen bible verses were about being humble instead of proud. I grew up around a strong ethos of needing to be better for God.

My parents used to take my brother and sister and I to a family summer camp – a Christian week like Spring Harvest. I remember an experience I had there when I was 7 that deeply impacted me and has stayed with me. During one of the children’s meetings, I think in a worship time, I felt an overwhelming sense of love being near me, like I was being held. And I cried deep tears. I knew at that point that there was something beyond me, that God was real. We returned year after year and I often revisited that sense of God at that camp. I cherished those experiences and as I grew older began to search for a tangible grasp of this God. I wanted to hear him, to live a life like those in the books I’d read, like Brother Andrew and Jackie Pullinger, in which there were miracles, in which God was actually involved. I pledged my life to this God and to live a life that would please him, and to have the kind of passion that seemed to be echoed in the youth events I loved so much.

Fast forward twenty years, juggling my work as a junior doctor, and being a mum of two, I was struggling. My career had slowed and the thoughts of being something useful in the world seemed out of reach. I had lost confidence and couldn’t seem to find myself. My life certainly didn’t feel like one that would make a difference to anyone in the way I’d hoped when I set out. I was trying to pull my life together, to be better, and when those words came to me in the coffee shop, slowing down seemed the exact opposite of what I was trying to do.  And then it came, almost out of the blue, but really I just hadn’t noticed it creeping up on me. The sharp reality that I was caught in an emotionally destructive relationship. Slowly its black ink was seeping over every part of me. The years I had invested, the love I’d tried to give, had led me down a dead end. I realised that if I didn’t do something, I would be swallowed up in darkness forever.

Leaving was frightening. Knowing that escaping would be dismantling everything I was trying to build, to face divorce and attempt to bring up my children as a single mum.

I was afraid to let go of what I knew and had built my life upon. The ideas I’d once held with such certainty seemed irrelevant to my situation at this point. I had to face myself and the reality that God was not, in fact, ultimately in control.  I had been emerging out of evangelical Christianity slowly, questioning it  for a while, but had been trying to keep hold of the good I knew of it. However, at this point I desperately needed something solid and church and religion, definitely was not it. If I was going to come through this, I needed to take some control and find help.

As I embarked on my new circumstances, my mental health fell to pieces around me. I had always been strong, reliable, and now I was desperate. Desperate to form some sort of stability for my children that I was not able to find in myself.

I lost sight of how to get through. In the depths of darkness, I felt angry. Angry that the sacrifices I had made to live a life for God were not being met in the way I imagined. I felt grief. Amongst everything else, I was also grieving the loss of the model Christian life I’d so zealously promised God in my youth.

But it was there, in my powerless state, that I found Hope. She came to me. I began a journey in which my imagination played a key role. I held back initially, it felt erroneous when I had been taught to be wary of my imagination, that inherently I was sinful and shouldn’t trust what came out of the deep places in me. But it’s where I slowly began to feel life come back to me and warm me. In the middle of my loneliness I began to see her waiting for me as I came back to my empty house, the children at their Dad’s house. She could ask me how my day was. She was always interested. There was always kindness and care.

I think that experience began to lead me out. It has been a long process of healing and courage and knock backs. It led me into possibility, into creative approaches to spiritual meaning, and ultimately to finding kindness.

In some ways it is like I’ve scrapped all that has gone before and started with a blank sheet. I am open to ideas about God, or whatever you call it, him, her. I love to see how others approach faith. I love to be able to listen to friends from other stand points, and take something from that conversation, free from having to hold an agenda to ultimately convert them.

But in some ways, it is like I have been released to return home, to that simple love that came to me as a child, in which I was held and accepted just as I am.

– Mary Bronwen

Therapists Justin and Joy get together for a conversation about spiritual abuse and how it can present in a church environment. Reflecting on their personal experiences, they explore the impact of spiritual abuse, describing how they learnt to recognise it and what it was like to walk away from congregations they cared about deeply. They also share some of the healing and growth that has taken place as their lives changed and they began to recover and rebuild in different areas of their lives.

Conversation starts at 14m 09s

Images used with permission

WEBSITES

Joy Brooks

Justin Marsh

BOOKS

In the Days of Rain: A Daughter, a Father, a Cult

When Narcissism Comes to Church

Let us Prey

The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse

Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse

QUOTES

“It’s no longer about wanting to prove that something happened, but it’s about wanting to bring something that feels so shameful into the light. And it’s about wanting to reach out a hand to anyone else who might have been in, or is in that situation and say, ‘You’re not on your own.’”

“The thing that makes spiritual abuse over just a simple power dynamic is that there’s an eternal aspect or an eternal dynamic to it, which is if you aren’t obedient, you might not get as good a place in heaven, or you might run the risk of not making it, or there’ll be some judgement attached to it. There’s a sense of you’re doing it not for the leader or for the church, but you’re working for God. So, it’s almost like the human leader is putting himself in the place of God and you can’t really argue with a deity, can you? You can’t really argue with God.”

It took me a long time to get into a frame of mind to write this. Like many of you, there have been few people in my life who I could tell my faith story to with any expectation that they’d understand. Some would understand the being a Christian part, but not the deconstruction part. Others would appreciate the deconstruction but not my continued pursuit of Jesus. After spending years sitting in a church pew hiding my heretical thoughts and trying to fit in, it’s been a great relief to find the Nomad community.

Image used with permission

I was raised in the United Methodist Church in Alabama, which is situated right in the middle of the Bible Belt. My teen years were spent attending multiple church events every week from youth group to Wednesday night supper to Sunday school and service. We didn’t live close to extended family, so church community became my family. My dad died when I was 9, and the patriarchal structure suited my needs at the time too. To me, God was a father figure and an escape. The Holy Spirit was something magical that gave me goosebumps and told me to do random stuff for strangers. Jesus was this guy I knew was important, but I was too afraid to admit that I didn’t really understand why.

My young beliefs held pretty firm during this time, though I always felt different from other kids. Losing a parent at a young age was part of it. It’s hard to explain what it’s like to have experienced something so life-changing decades before any of my peers. I was so lonely inside. On top of that, I had a severe stutter that I hadn’t learned to accept yet. I found refuge in the church, but neither I nor the pastors really knew how to help me in my pain. I thought church was the one place I could “come as I am” and receive healing and hope. I thought that if I followed all the rules and claimed to believe, that I would find freedom from my suffering. This disconnect between what I was told and what I actually experienced gradually became more confusing and enraging.

There was one point during my freshman year of college when I looked at all the questions swirling in my head and made a decision. If doubting and pursuing all these questions meant I might be going to hell, then I was willing to risk it. I think this might have been the first real pivotal moment when I chose my own life and healing over the prescribed Christian path. For the next ten years, I would bounce back and forth between the two, simultaneously knowing that my life depended on finding my own way, while being terrified of losing the only community I’d ever known.

In college, I ministry-hopped between the Methodists, Church of Christ, and Assembly of God to try to meet all my spiritual needs. Among the three congregations, I’d been rebaptised by immersion, been prophesied over, and been told that I wasn’t allowed to dance in public, serve communion, or teach men. In response to this, I started a covert ballroom dance class for my peers at one campus ministry and led a co-ed Bible study at another. In the end, it was the concept of people being “lost” and “found” that left me stumped. I barely knew any nonbelievers. How could I be sure they were all lost? I was 22, had been a Christian for ten years, had read the entire Bible, and I felt like the lost one. Something wasn’t right. This was the first of several times in my life when I would decide to take a break from church.

My journey unfolded from there, leading to more questions and experiences I didn’t share in my church communities for fear of being kicked out, or worse, losing my status as a Christian. Even as I pleaded with God to make me a good Christian woman who could attract a good Christian husband, I kept having more diverse experiences that fueled my doubt. However, even in my frustration and disagreement with God, I knew God was present. I never doubted this. I knew God was leading me. I knew this was part of my journey, even if I wouldn’t have chosen it myself.

During my post-college unchurched years, I decided that I didn’t want to believe in a God who only existed within the walls of a church. That an omnipotent, omniscient God would choose to only inhabit one religion didn’t make sense to me anymore. From here, God and I started our own version of Where’s Waldo. Only instead of looking for one figure of God in a sea of strangers, I found God in all the strangers.

During a summer abroad, I roomed with a Muslim woman who described her love for God exactly as I described mine. So why was I going to heaven and she wasn’t? In my mid-twenties, I did two years of Americorps at a Camphill community. Here I learned about anthroposophy and esoteric Christianity. I met other big-hearted volunteers from different cultures and beliefs, including a woman who was clairvoyant. I worked and lived with people with special needs, who might not profess a faith but who embodied the Spirit of Christ better than anyone I’d ever met.

After Americorps, I went to graduate school at a Buddhist-inspired university in Boulder, Colorado. Here I learned about transpersonal psychology, world wisdom traditions, and how to meditate. My cohort was entirely non- or ex-Christians who passionately pursued their own personal spiritual lives. I wrestled with my identity as a Christian and the overlap between the teachings of the Buddha and the teachings of Jesus.

While in Boulder I re-engaged with church. Even as I surrounded myself with genuinely good Christian people, I still didn’t feel like I belonged there. I knew too much. The more I learned about the world and allowed myself to grow, the angrier I felt with the church and the less I felt at home in the pews. Though I did finally begin to understand Jesus one evening in those pews, at the age of 28, in the darkness of a Good Friday service.

Fast forward to today and I am taking another break from church, maybe for good this time, who knows. I’m almost tired of fighting and being angry, and I’m beginning to surrender to the reality that the healing I need takes time and work. At 34, I feel more grounded and secure in my decision to stay true to my own path of deconstruction and hope. I know there is more to come. Thank God for that.

– Jessica Sabo

In this episode David speaks with priest and author Azariah France-Williams about his new book Ghost Ship: Institutional Racism and the Church of England. Azariah reflects on his experience of racism within the church, and how sticking plasters won’t suffice, but instead a wholesale change in structure and mindset is required.
Jemimah is then joined by diversity and inclusion trainer Natalia Nana, to reflect on the interview and to speak about anti-racist habits and practices.

Interview starts at 19m 12s

Images used with permission

BOOKS

Ghost Ship: Institutional Racism and the Church of England

Reconstructing the Gospel: Finding Freedom from Slaveholder Religion

I’m Still Here: Black Dignity in a World Made for Whiteness

Natives: Race and Class in the Ruins of Empire

White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism

Is God Colour-Blind?: Insights From Black Theology For Christian Ministry

White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack

Why I’m No Longer Talking to White People About Race

Brit(ish): On Race, Identity and Belonging

Learning to be White: Money, Race, And God in America

Enfleshing Freedom: Body, Race, and Being

QUOTES

“I would encourage people who describe themselves as Christians – people who describe themselves as Anglicans – to tap into and to engage with the type of monarchy embodied in the life of Jesus, the type of rule which empowered others (that didn’t extract from others), the type of rule that was willing to forego the material in order to embody a message, the type of rule that saw God at work in the lives and the places that many others had forgotten.”

“When I share stories and people begin to instantly minimize, or justify, or try to tell me why it’s actually not that big a thing – that it’s all in my head, or I’m overblowing it, or being too sensitive – I feel more alone in my pain than I was before. And so, an encouragement is to get out of your head, get out of analysis mode and begin to engage with this in an embodied way, and assume that the person that’s speaking to you actually knows what they’re feeling. They know what it feels like – what they’ve gone through. Suspend disbelief. Be alongside them on the journey. ”

“If you have real power, you don’t need to use it over and above other people. If you have real power, you empower others with that, and you give and receive.”

If I can pinpoint a time when I started to have deep questions around faith, I think it would be when I worked in student ministry in Italy seventeen years or so ago. Coming from a deeply evangelical tradition and being part of an evangelical protestant mission organisation, I become increasingly uncomfortable with the idea of converting Catholics to Protestantism by the end of my time there. I couldn’t define it at that time, but it just didn’t sit well with me. I look back now, and I can see it was the beginning of questioning the “us versus them”, defensive basis of sharing what was supposed to be good news. I had begun to want to listen to others of different backgrounds from me, to listen, to learn, rather than have all the right answers to theological arguments. I wanted to see their point of view and I was starting to feel uncomfortable with the assumption that I thought (and I had been taught) that I knew the only way to God and that I had all the answers.

Image used with permission

Fast forward ten years or so, years of different evangelical, charismatic denominations seeking always to do the right thing, regularly going to church, always wanting some experience of God in order to know how to live my life. I sought and tried different ways of prayer, of reading the bible, I wanted to “hear” from God directly for guidance in making decisions and, most of all, answers to prayer as to why I was single and lonely. That perhaps sounds more negative than it was, I did experience what I would say was a sense of being loved by God during this time and I truly wanted to dedicate all aspects of my life to God.

At this time, I had a dream of running a retreat centre as I deeply appreciated the retreat spaces I had experienced and wanted to cultivate some kind of space for people to get away and rest. I started training as a spiritual director and suddenly a year into the course God seemed…silent. Very silent. A blank, brick wall of silence. That’s what it felt like. I couldn’t even hope in particular dark moments, certainly not hope that there were answers and where was God in this. Did God care? Was God even listening?

There was no major drama, just a gradual disappearance of the God I thought I had dedicated my life to. He just didn’t seem to be there anymore.  

Alongside this I was finding church hard, partly because I wasn’t seemingly hearing from God but also, I no longer felt I fitted in a particular church. I felt more at home in the ecumenical group at the spiritual direction course. This group was a small eclectic group of multi-ethnic Catholics, charismatics, Anglicans, Quakers, non-denominational, gay and straight, all gathered to be taught how to listen well to people and develop and carry this skill into different spheres. Here was a group where I didn’t have to define myself by a denomination or a statement of faith, I could simply be a friend to these fellow travellers on the journey of faith. I could listen and could be listened to and that became a special place.

I think it’s the desire to continue to be part of a community where all are welcome that drew me to a community such as Nomad and appreciate the podcast so much. I’m not writing this to disparage church community in any way, but my personal experience is that I have found it the loneliest place when you have questions that there are no easy answers to.

I am longing to see more communities of hope and unity where all are accepted and listened to well. The existence of groups such as I found and podcasts such as Nomad is where I find hope right now. We are not in an easy year or an easy time, but I want more and more to be one who listens to understand rather than to respond, to quote Stephen R Covey*.  That type of listening is hard and is a practice. A daily, hourly, minute-by-minute practice in my experience, and I’ve only recently begun.

Being present in listening to my own questions and the questions of others gives me hope. It also somehow gives me the sense of a loving presence in all of this, which I would like to call God.

To end I want to quote the writings of the poet Rainer Maria Rilke, which I keep coming back to:

I want to beg you..

to be patient towards all that is unsolved in your heart

and try to love the questions themselves like locked rooms

and like books that are written in a very foreign tongue.

Do not now seek the answers,

that cannot be given you because you would not be able to live them.

And the point is, to live everything.

Live the questions now.

Perhaps you will then gradually,

without noticing it,

live along some distant day into the answer.

Rainer Maria Rilke

Delyth Johnson

*Stephen R. Covey, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People: Powerful Lessons in Personal Change

We’ve caused a turning point in the Earth’s natural history. Everybody Now is a podcast about what it means to be human on the threshold of a global climate emergency, in a time of systemic injustice and runaway pandemics. Scientists, activists, farmers, poets, and theologians talk bravely and frankly about how our biosphere is changing, about grief and hope in an age of social collapse and mass extinction, and about taking action against all the odds.

Everybody Now is being released by podcasters all over the world as a collective call for awareness, grief and loving action.


CONTRIBUTIONS

Dr. Gail Bradbrook – scientist and co-founder of Extinction Rebellion

Prof. Kevin Anderson – Professor of Energy and Climate Change at the University of Manchester

Dámaris Albuquerque – works with agricultural communities in Nicaragua

Dr. Rowan Williams – theologian and poet, and a former Archbishop of Canterbury

Pádraig Ó Tuama – poet, theologian and conflict mediator

Rachel Mander – environmental activist with Hope for the Future

John Swales – priest and activist, and part of a community for marginalised people

Zena Kazeme – Persian-Iraqi poet who draws on her experiences as a former refugee to create poetry that explores themes of exile, home, war and heritage

Flo Brady – singer and theatre maker

Hannah Malcolm – Anglican ordinand, climate writer and organiser

Alastair McIntosh – writer, academic and land rights activist

David Benjamin Blower – musician, poet and podcaster

FUNDING AND PRODUCTION

This podcast was crowdfunded by a handful of good souls, and produced by Tim Nash and David Benjamin Blower

PERMISSIONS

The song Happily by Flo Brady is used with permission.

The song The Soil, from We Really Existed and We Really Did This by David Benjamin Blower, used with permission.

The Poem The Tree of Knowledge by Pádraig Ó Tuama used with permission.

The Poem Atlas by Zena Kazeme used with permission.

The Poem What is Man? by Rowan Williams from the book The Other Mountain, used with permission from Carcanet Press.

In this episode we speak with the director of Theos Think Tank and host of The Sacred podcast, Elizabeth Oldfield.
Elizabeth is passionate about exploring how we can build healthy friendships and societies in an age characterised by seemingly ever deepening differences, and what role faith can play in this.
So we asked Elizabeth why we find it so hard to relate to people who are culturally, politically and religiously different from ourselves, and how we can begin to overcome this.

After the interview, Nomad hosts David Blower and Tim Nash reflect on their own experiences of relating to people in their lives whose faith is in a different place to their own.

Interview starts at 12m 40s

Image used with permission.

WEBSITE

Theos Think Tank

The Sacred

QUOTES

“That’s one of the key sources of wisdom – when we see the world differently because we’ve actually stopped to acknowledge another human being who’s different from us.”

“If you actually want to change something rather than just looking self-righteous, go and work out how to change that person’s mind. And generally the way you change someone’s mind is them thinking that you actually give a toss about them, not that you have contempt for them.”

“It’s very easy to feel very sure about something if you’re never met someone who’s smart and nice who believes the opposite. But once you’ve met someone who’s smart and nice who believes the opposite, the sort of internal-probability-of-you-being-wrong-calculation that you do just shifts a bit.”

My older sisters ended up getting us all kicked out of Sunday school. I’m not sure why, and I was definitely too young to remember it happening, but my parents tell me this was one of the reasons they didn’t bother with church anymore. We didn’t seem all that interested.

Image used with permission.

I wouldn’t return to church again until my teenage years when I picked up a bass guitar and joined a band. It turned out they practiced in a church, and one of their parents was the vicar. They’d snagged me. I turned up most Sundays, not entirely interested in the content of each service but happy to be in the company of friends. Coming together as a community around the communion table resonated with me and nurtured a sense of inclusion. Here I was being welcomed to partake in something that was clearly so special to everyone involved.

Later at university I ended up following a series of rather unfortunate events; being terrified by preachers who had this incredible gift of condemning everyone other than themselves, being silenced in a Bible study because it wasn’t a place for questions, and being completely ignored while my partner, Holly, was quizzed on the perils of dating someone they saw as a non-believer. The more I became involved in the Church, the quicker I realised that it isn’t always the welcoming place we hope it to be. Where I’d previously felt included, I now felt pushed to the fringes as a young adult finding my own voice, and apparently asking all the wrong questions.

After a night out with friends I ended up in the back of a police van, and the next day I was off to a Christian conference with Holly’s family. Nothing serious had happened, but it wasn’t the best start to the week ahead. Thankfully, I was believed when I used car sickness as an excuse for my rather pasty complexion. Little did I know then, but I was about to discover Pentecostalism in full force. The main conference tent was filled with people speaking in strange languages, others occasionally dropping to the floor and not one person whose energy levels hadn’t been turned up to 11. I was truly bewildered, out of my depth, and vowed to myself not to let go of my seat for the duration of the week.

Despite this promise to myself, I ended up responding to an alter call and was baptised when returning to university. We were still in the same church where the merits of my relationship had been questioned – they were happy about the baptism.

Suddenly I was included again and began playing in the worship group. However, university is a great place to learn critical thinking and many of my political and social views soon came into conflict with my local church’s teaching. Thankfully, getting married involved a house move during which we took the opportunity to look for a different church.

We found ourselves in a worshiping community filled with people who had found themselves on the fringes elsewhere for various reasons. It was a mixed bag of life experiences and theological thinking. It took me a while to feel comfortable because I’d retained a rather strict conservative evangelical theology and almost instinctively felt suspicious of different approaches to faith. I’m glad we were in this new place, however, because the proverbial shit would soon hit the fan.

After the birth of our first child my wife experienced postpartum psychosis.* It was truly awful, and I dread to think what the reaction of our previous church would have been. Thankfully, our current church community gave us the distance we needed while a few close friends offered their support. In the pit of this trauma my whole world felt as though it had caved in and God had performed the greatest of all vanishing acts. If I could have looked into the neat and tidy boxes into which I had placed God I would have discovered that they were empty. Everything was in flux, and to make things more complicated I was in the process of being accepted to train for ordained ministry.

Despite everything, I was given the support and encouragement to continue onto training. Relocating to theology college offered some physical distance from what was still a painful experience, but time proved to be a great healer and hindsight a real blessing. I was able to see how the powerful and victorious image of God I had learned to grasp hold of found no place in my vulnerability.

I had to read Jürgen Moltmann’s The Crucified God when applying for ministerial training and I found myself challenged by a different image of God, one which finds God becoming vulnerable in the midst of suffering. Slowly I began to make sense of faith again, and studying theology only helped to broaden my view of Christianity, learning to appreciate differences I had previously distrusted.

My faith is no longer neatly packaged, and I believe I’m all the better for it. I’ve also taken solace in the belief that God’s greatest strength is empathy. This has given me a lot of breathing space and enabled me to involve myself in work with people from other faith traditions in whom I occasionally see Christ most clearly (but don’t tell my younger self this).

Discovering Nomad Podcast, and The Beloved Listener Lounge, has introduced me to valuable companionship and has provided a constant reminder that deconstruction can be an enriching and shared experience.

– Liam Dacre-Davis

*I won’t go into detail as this is mostly Holly’s story to tell, but search for the charity Action for Postpartum Psychosis if you feel you need to know a little more.

In this episode we welcome Rob Bell back to the podcast. Rob’s written a new book – Everything is Spiritual – within which he explores how ideas about creation, love and connection have profoundly shaped his faith journey.
We chat with Rob about what it means to embrace who we are and where we’ve come from, our wounds, our pain and our regrets, and how this can deepen and expand our sense of self and connection to the world and the divine.
As you’d expect from Rob, it’s a conversation full of humour, insight and inspiration.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Nick Thorley talk about their deconstruction journey, and the role figures like Rob Bell have played in their evolving faith.

Interview starts at 15m 4s

Image taken by Logan Rice. Used with permission.

BOOKS

Everything is Spiritual: A Brief Guide to Who We Are and What We’re Doing Here

What Is the Bible?: How an Ancient Library of Poems, Letters and Stories Can Transform the Way You Think and Feel About Everything

What We Talk About When We Talk About God

Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived

QUOTES

“Doubt, rage, despair, disorientation – if you haven’t experienced those, you’re not paying attention. That’s all part of the human experience. It’s not to be denied or avoided. You feel all of it. It’s all part of it.”

“The radical is not the one who wandered away. The radical is the one who went back to the roots, to the source.”

“The real art is to own every square inch of your story. It’s all part of it; it’s all how we become who we become.”

“When you ask people about the most significant moments of their life, people always talk about pain, and loss, and heartbreak, and how they wouldn’t have wished it upon their worst enemy. And yet, when they look back, those are the very experiences that shaped them into the person that they are. It’s one of the great mysteries of life. So, I am passionate about helping people read the text of their own life – to interpret the stories of their own life through this lens: that everything is spiritual.”

I’ve been struggling with how to tell this story. My attempts to craft a chronological timeline of events feel like they leave too much out, too many words feel like they’re not the right words to transition one moment into the next. And then I realized, this is not a story. This is a tapestry. A collection of vibrantly coloured threads spanning generations, geographies and worldviews that weave together to make a life. Or maybe not one life, but many, because this tapestry is bigger than me. It was started by my ancestors going back further than I can see, and its pieces don’t move neatly from A to B to C. They overlap and intertwine. They coil and collide. They dance. 

Image used with permission.

From my French Catholic grandmother I inherited threads of generational trauma from a childhood of control and abuse. But also threads of love. A love of Jesus and of family. And threads of growing into a woman who knew her own mind and easily wove her faith and her questioning together into something that she could comfortably live in.

From my neo-pagan mom, threads of rejecting the traditions she grew up with that left her shamed and voiceless. But also threads of seeking the divine in other ways and with other faces. I grew up in a house with pictures of Artemis on the wall, Women Who Run with the Wolves on the bookshelf, and these too were threads in my tapestry.

And between the three of us the thread of a shared name. For my mom and me our middle name, for my grandma her first: Marie.

My dad contributed threads when he took me to a visiting transcendental meditation guru when I was 9 years old to receive a mantra. I laid my orange and my carnation in front a picture of the guru’s guru and placed the word I was given into my heart like a precious gem where it still lives nearly 30 years later. As instructed, I’ve never told anyone what it was, even the disillusioned ex-TM teacher I met years later who tried to guess. My inner 9 year old knew a sacred vow when she wove one.

My mom’s family added threads to my tapestry a few years ago at a big family reunion where after one of her cousins said grace, my grandma, her siblings, and one table out of all of us gathered made the sign of the cross in breathtaking near-unison like a flock of birds rising as one from a lake. I longed to feel in my bones that pull to connect god to my body, and connect my body to the bodies of my ancestors. I longed for that thread of belonging.

There had been threads woven into my understanding in my youth of what it meant to be religious. It was small, it was constricted, it was constricting. And there was the knowledge of real and untenable atrocities carried out in the name of those institutions. And so I didn’t know how to reconcile the faith of my grandma, of my family, with the other threads that were forming me. What about feminism? What about justice? What about queerness and socialism and love? Nothing I’d been told about at church reflected those values.

But slowly over the years as I started to dig a little deeper, was offered names and resources by friends walking similar paths, and a different kind of church was revealed to me. The teachings of Anthony DeMello offered me a thread. And Pádraig Ó Tuama. And Cynthia Bourgeault. Then I found Nomad and dozens of beautiful threads wove into my tapestry. Threads of hope.

I began to see that I hadn’t been given the full picture about church, about god, about Jesus. If these radical, loving mystics and activists could find such awe in this tradition, what had I been missing?

I saw progressive women coming into awareness of their appropriation of eastern religions and turning to figures like Mary Magdalene to see themselves reflected in the traditions of their ancestors. But to my surprise, it was not Mary Magdalene, but the Mary from whom I got my middle name, Marie, Mere de Dieu, (Mary, Mother of God) who captivated me. I googled her prayer and wove its thread into my heart. In a dream she invited me up from darkness to be enfolded in her arms.

I read the gospels for the first time at age 35 and was astounded. I did not expect an anti-capitalist, feminist, champion of the marginalized. And I did not expect to feel myself wrapped in the loving arms of a long lost brother as I sat in centering prayer one morning. Jesus was a thread I added to my tapestry and I wrapped myself in the warmth of it, more loved than I thought possible.

My grandma died the day before my birthday this year. I wasn’t able to be there when they cleaned out her apartment, but my mom claimed for me a holy water container shaped like Mary that my grandma got on pilgrimage years ago and a beautiful rosary with green beads that look like pomegranate seeds. The cross is missing from the rosary, but I like it that way. It reminds me that I can weave the traditions of the past into my life now, but they don’t have to be what they have always been.

I pass the beads of the rosary between my fingers and recite prayers that connect me to my family across generations and continents and languages. But deeper than that, the language beyond the prayer is a thread that connects me to anyone who is praying anywhere to anything. And together all of us are weaving and being woven by god.

– Jenn Johnson

In this episode we discuss radical theology with author, philosopher and storyteller Peter Rollins. Peter explores the freedom that comes when we accept and embrace the lack within us and the struggle within life. He believes that letting go of the frenetic pursuit of that which will make us whole and complete opens the way to accepting the lack within and finding enjoyment within the struggles of life. From this place of freedom we find God in the act of love, the depth dimension of our experiences, and in a continual transformative conversation.

After the interview Nomad hosts Jemimah McAlpine and David Blower ponder the implications of Pete’s philosophy and theology for their own faith journey.

Interview starts at 14m 53s

Image taken by Burt Dirkse. Used with permission.

WEBSITE

Peter Rollins

BOOKS

Insurrection: To Believe is Human; to Doubt, Divine

The Idolatry of God: Breaking the Addiction to Certainty and Satisfaction

How (Not) to Speak of God

The Orthodox Heretic: And Other Impossible Tales

QUOTES

“Doubt, unknowing, complexity is part of what makes life what it is. Radical theology is more about embracing the cracks in our lives than trying to cover over them.”

“If you think of ‘God’ as what guarantees meaning – what guarantees that everything makes sense – ‘death of God’ means the moment in which we experience the loss of everything that gives us meaning; the rug is pulled from beneath us, we start to question everything about our political views, our religious views, our sense of purpose. It’s a kind of existential crisis. And in confessional church, often that experience is seen as the opposite of the religious tradition. It’s like that’s the very thing that religion protects you against. But within radical theology, the ‘death of God’ is the central moment of Christianity. This experience is not something that needs to be shored up against or defended against. It’s actually what allows for us to mature as individuals and as communities. And this is symbolized in the crucifixion of God.”

“We’re liturgical creatures. And by liturgy I simply mean we engage in regular practices. And there are liturgies that are damaging to us like going to the pub every night – getting drunk to forget about your suffering. And there are liturgies that are good for us – maybe going to the Irish pub and having a drink and talking about your problems with your friends. Those are both liturgies, but one you do to avoid the suffering and one you do and it actually helps you look at your suffering.”

“By embracing this dimension of ourselves, we find ourselves flowing with the very nature of reality: the chaos that we are is reflected in the chaos of the universe and that chaos is profoundly productive. This is at the core of existentialist philosophy.” 

I was a child of the Charismatic Movement, in quite a literal way. Two years after my Anglican-Presbyterian mother got born again and Spirit filled, God told her to have another child. She stopped taking the pill, and I was born about a year later.

Image used with permission.

I grew up Charismatic Presbyterian in 1980s New Zealand and attended two Reformed Christian secondary schools in the 1990s. When I was 13, there was a stint living with my parents on campus at a Pentecostal Bible College.

These were the days of tearing down strongholds with shouted prayers and loud worship music, back-masking, demon deliverance and stories about the Russians digging a hole so deep that when they dangled a microphone down there, they could hear the screams of the souls in hell. These were the days of the inevitable immanent return of Jesus as the year 2000 approached. I wish we’d all been ready.

There were all kinds of adventures and good friends. I experienced the stark difference of Reformed Christianity on the one hand and Pentecostalism on the other, with Charismatic Presbyterianism somewhere in-between, but I was an introvert imaginative kid always looking for home – some kind of space where I felt I could belong, somewhere safe from guilt and fear.

I stayed Charismatic Presbyterian for over 20 years. During that time I finished a master’s degree in English at university, got a job at a Christian publishing company (where I still work, 20 years later) and met Anna, my wife, at a Christian music festival after one of my poetry performances.

Anna had chronic fatigue (ME/CFS). She had it when we met, but we both knew she was going to get better soon. We were both God-honouring young people, so we knew that God wouldn’t want us to have our dreams derailed by illness. That’s how it works, right? And anyway, I was a perfectionist and an idealist – so that’s how it had to work.

A few months into our marriage, the illness worsened. Anna ran out of sick days in her first job as a Spanish and English teacher and had to resign. Her feelings of isolation deepened, so we moved to her hometown to be closer to family.

Over the course of the next decade or so, Anna’s health continued to fluctuate. At one point she felt well enough to step out and take on another teaching job. ‘Step-out in faith’ is how we framed it. She made it through one term then, during the two-week school holidays, she started having non-epileptic seizures.

The scans were clear, but the seizures continued to occur unpredictably – sometimes in a cluster, sometimes months apart. Anxiety became a feature of my life alongside a growing sense of disenchantment with the way things had turned out.

By now, I was attending a Pentecostal church and was actually quite involved – mainly as a worship leader – despite the awkwardness an introvert can feel in what is essentially an extrovert style of Christianity. I had wonderful friends there and had no particular beef with the place. But my faith was slipping and, ironically, it was partly due to the positivity preached from the stage. It was intended to boost our faith so that healing and joy would come. But healing wasn’t coming, and there was no official space for sorrow and lament. There was plenty about the faith it takes to be physically healed, and nothing about the faith it takes to live unhealed.

With perfectionism as grist to the mill, disenchantment was turning into a generalised sense of resentment, and resentment is very tiring.

Without any unpleasant rupture with the church I’d been attending, I gravitated towards a newly established local church where people wanted to explore faith in a deeper, more intellectually engaged way. The informal term that I latched onto there was ‘post-Pentecostal’. In effect, aspects of the deconstruction process were taking place within the context of church community.

There was more existentially honest theology taking place – space for ambiguity and mystery – but my expectations about how life should be, and God’s role in that, ran very deep… the resentment and tiredness, alongside caregiver fatigue and trauma, continued to gather.

Age 39, anxiety was increasingly popping up at unexpected times and it didn’t seem to be directly linked to specific triggers. I was starting to experience weird physiological symptoms, and my body wasn’t healing itself properly. Then, after an unfortunate experience with an antidepressant, my system collapsed. I was experiencing burnout… maybe even, dare I say it in the old language, a nervous breakdown. 

The process of making sense of my life, and recovery, began. There were medical tests, including an MRI for MS-like symptoms, and an ultrasound for sharp pains in my abdomen. The results, from a pathological point of view, were always those of a healthy individual. So the real, and perhaps most important, work came to the fore – that long internal journey – deconstruction or dissembling via falling apart – a journey which I hoped, to use Richard Rohr’s term, would prove to be a falling upward.

By and by I discovered a wide river. I first caught the sound of it during one of those moments of desperate internet searching, which turned up a thing called mindfulness. Walking in that direction, I found myself ankle-deep in something called contemplative spirituality. I don’t think I found it by accident. There was a familiarity to it and a strange newness.

Mysticism had always been my thing, truth be told. I’d flirted with it in every church context I’d been in. I had a strong longing for a connection to something that extended all the way back – something ancient. Something deep. If nothing else, my burnout made me feel like I needed to plunge head-first into cool, clear water, and so I dove in and entered the flow.

It transpires that contemplative spirituality isn’t just about practices, but a whole way of being in the world. Bigger than congregations or denominations, or even my own existential expectations. A gathering sense of home. For me, it’s the most hopeful possibility for Christianity.

Questions about theology and the presence and intention of God seem to be increasingly filled with wonder, rather than angst or frustration. Nearly five years on, the burnout recovery continues. This morning I experienced the confusion of a sudden onset of brain-fog, anxiety and tiredness. But there’s something different now. Open-handedness and gratitude are friends. Little by little, guilt is becoming less of a feature in my belief dynamic. Love and Presence. Restedness is a core value. ‘Accept and float’ is the mantra I got from one of the many books I’ve read. I don’t want to over-romanticise this, and wax too lyrical; but then again, I did ask for a sense of wonder.

There’s a place on the spiritual journey described by French philosopher Paul Riceour called ‘the second naïveté’. It’s a post-critical mindset – a possible way of being beyond the deconstruction/dissembling process – and I find it very inviting. In essence, it’s a journey from disenchantment to re-enchantment – not an arrival but an ongoing process. It contains all the gifts and wisdom of the critical phase, but it rests easier. It’s a more nuanced interaction with the old words, the symbol and metaphor, returning to them in their richness with the embodied engagement of the sacramental.

About 15 months ago, Anna and I moved north, closer to the equator, to the outskirts of a small town, near the rugged west coast. Northland is the least wealthy region of New Zealand. We set out on an adventure – a place in the country, and a place where Anna has been able to engage in coalface youth work. She still has to carefully manage her health, but it’s been over three years since she had a seizure – so who knows…

On Wednesday morning I sat in church for Eucharist – just the six of us – me and five older women, including the vicar. Holy Trinity, a nearly 150-year-old structure, an Anglican church, built in what was then a colonial outpost, from Kauri timber that took from hundreds to thousands of years to grow. (The area was once clothed with these giant sacred trees – the legs of Tāne Mahuta as he held earth and sky apart to let in the light – until they were clear-felled as a resource for empire.) We say liturgy that, via a series of fairly minor revisions, dates at least as far back as 1549. The timber and the liturgy have that in common.

We entered via the vestry door because the main door is exposed to wind and rain – the church is built on a high point above the town. The rain is a gentle white noise to our prayer, and the structure creaks just a little in a gust. The squall passes and now the beautiful stain-glass behind the altar (donated by the widow of the colonial entrepreneur for whom the town is named) is illuminated.

The wide brown heft of the Northern Wairoa River flows on by downstream, then back again as the tidal force of the Kaipara Harbour’s 947 square kilometres of water pushes inland. So many metaphors, so much ambiguity, so much poetry, so much to admire and regret. Disconnects, breaking, burning and reassembling. So much beauty and… sin. And yet, and yet… this age-old hum of potentiality, dissembling and remaking… perhaps – in the richest, ever-new sense of the old language – the possibility of redemption, of coming home.

– Andrew Killick

Toxic masculinity is a term that seems to be cropping up more and more in academic and media discussions, as we become more aware of the harmful effects – on men, women and society in general – of men conforming to traditional masculine ideals, like dominance, self-reliance, and competition.
So we dialled up Stephen Whitehead, who is an author, researcher, consultant and lecturer on gender, sexuality and identity, and asked him where these traditional expressions of masculinity came from, what effects they are having on us, and how we can overcome them.

After the interview, Tim Nash and Nick Thorley reflect on their own relationship with masculinity, the role their inherited evangelical faith played in this, and how their faith deconstruction has liberated them from these stereotypes.

Interview starts at 12m 16s

Image used with permission.

BOOK

Toxic Masculinity: Curing the Virus: Making Men Smarter, Healthier, Safer – Stephen Whitehead

Man Up: Surviving Modern Masculinity – Jack Urwin

For the Love of Men: From Toxic to a More Mindful Masculinity – Liz Plank

The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love – Bell Hooks

WEBSITE

Stephen Whitehead

QUOTES

“Do not put men’s behaviour down to hormones and genes. The world we grow up in, live in, and experience on a daily basis is much more influential.”

“Where there is a higher level of education and a greater urbanization – a greater willingness for younger men and women certainly to stand back and critique the ideologies that have been fed their ancestors (we’re seeing that now in the Black Lives Matter movement) – where there’s a greater desire to undertake that questioning, that critique, then we’re going to see toxic masculinity become more marginalized.”

“It’s impossible to be a progressive man and be fascist. It’s impossible to be a progressive man and racist. Be a feminist – be a full feminist. How few feminist men did I meet when I started doing my research? But now it’s no big deal. Nowadays, you meet so many men who are comfortable with declaring themselves as feminists, and I think that’s right and so they should. We should be allies with women in the same way we should be anti-racist; we should be anti-homophobic. I find it staggering that we can even have a problem thinking about this. Why would anyone want to be racist? Why would anyone want to hate women? Why would anyone want to be homophobic? What is going on the minds of people like this?

“The most important benefit [of a more progressive masculinity] is you won’t be fighting the 21st Century zeitgeist. You’ll be in tune with it. You won’t be fighting history, you’ll be part of history, you’ll be part of the future. And this will lead to greater calmness, contentment and improved mental health.”

My earliest memory of faith is lying in my bottom bunk each night, repeating the Lord’s Prayer over and over, in the hope that, if I died in my sleep, God would let me into heaven*.

Image used with permission

I became a “born again” Christian when I was 13, after my family started attending a local evangelical/brethren church. We had attended another (less intense) church prior to this and my immediate family were all Christians. As a passionate and impressionable teenager (with a side dose of baseline anxiety, see bunk bed prayer*) I quickly internalised what I was hearing. The result was a life focused on daily quiet times, fervent evangelising and high-octane church involvement (the majority of time at this church, then later one closer to my university). Over the next 7 years I devoted most of my time to camps and mission weeks, prayer triplets, bible studies and prayer rooms. I had a poem stuck on my bedroom wall entitled “Letter from Hell”; written from the perspective of a friend in hell, asking why I hadn’t done more to bring them to Jesus.

My deconstruction started relatively innocuously in my early 20’s. There was no one defining moment, instead it was an accumulation of many smaller doubts and wrestles. A medical elective in India made me question my theology on hell. The over-spiritualisation of a break-up made me doubt how I interpreted God’s will. I became increasingly uncomfortable evangelising my friends and the line between evangelism and manipulation became increasingly blurry (think curry night that is 10% curry and 90% testimony from a prison convert). As I began working as a doctor, I got a privileged insight into the complexities of people’s lives and the categories of Christian and non-Christian now felt like a cruel over simplification. Doubts and questions around the role of woman in the church, and teaching on sexuality (including homosexuality) and relationships made it increasingly difficult for me to tow the party line. I ruined more than one dinner party with my issues surrounding penal substitution and Calvinism. Steadily everything felt like a struggle.  

As difficult as these issues were to wrestle, the breaking point, the true unravelling, came when I realised there was no space to air my doubts and questions in the various Christian communities I was part of. In the few settings they could be aired, I still needed to eventually conclude with the view held by the church/organisation. I started to feel like I was suffocating.

As a generally anxious person (*see bunk bed prayer), the ‘micro manager’, black and white God who had a plan for every minute of my life was initially quite comforting. But it had now become the source of much of my anxiety, especially in regards to petitionary prayer. It felt like my linear, formulaic, two-dimensional faith was crumbling under the pressure of a multi-dimensional, complicated lived experience. I poked at a few more pieces and then the whole thing crumbled.

It took me a few years to truly face and accept what was happening. People would ask what church my husband and I were attending and I’d blame having a new baby. Or working. Or moving house. I felt terrified of my bible, unable to read it in case it pulled me back to who I had been before. I found prayer overwhelming as it had became more about ruminating over my fears than a spiritual practice that brought peace and direction. I felt a sense of grief as I left these communities and mourned the loss of a role that I had felt so certain of. But if I’m really honest, I mostly just felt angry.

I felt angry at the power and the patriarchy within the evangelical church. Angry at the legalism, angry at the uniformity of biblical interpretation we all had to adhere to. I felt angry at how much honesty was suppressed in the name of ‘godliness’. Angry at how repressed I was as a female and how much shame came with the purity culture teachings. I also felt ashamed and angry with myself for feeling angry and it’s taken many years to begin untangling all of that. 

The first signs of hope came in the form of a Brian McLaren book (given to me many years earlier by a wise and kind friend) and then another book, Doug Frank’s A Gentler God and then I discovered Rachel Held Evans. I read Evolving in Monkey Town in one evening with tears streaming down my face. I remember the overwhelming relief that I wasn’t alone. It felt wonderful to know this was a path that others had taken and not only survived, but had re-emerged with something new. I found reading Fowler’s work on Stages of Faith helpful and also Scott Peck’s work on faith psychology. I also began reading and listening to Esther Perel, a Belgian psychotherapist who has helped me reach a much more positive view on sexuality than I inherited from the evangelical ‘purity culture’ teaching. My husband, who became a Christian in his early 20’s, has always held a much lighter, more open faith where questions have always been as welcome as answers, so we’ve been able to do much of this journey together, which I am so grateful for. I am also fortunate to have some very dear friends from my past evangelical life, who are on various paths, without the church.

Other signs of hope have come through running, gardening and becoming a mother. Connecting to my body (often in nature) and learning to trust my instincts as a mum have helped reverse years of thinking my emotions were unreliable and my body a separate/lesser part of me. I’ve also loved being around my children who question and love and integrate all part of themselves in life so freely. Children know how to find and share pleasure. I found the evangelical obsession with abstaining from ‘worldly pleasures’ to be such a damaging, joy stealing theology. Being in such a constant state of vigilance makes it incredibly difficult to experience pleasure, joy and presentness and confounded my general anxiety towards life. Attempting to be rooted in the now, feet on this earth and allowing myself to experience joy and pleasure, might be the biggest sign of hope I’ve had so far.  

The last few years have been defined by a much deeper contentment for where I am. I’ve realised I was trying to package my deconstruction back up into the same neat, little boxes my evangelical faith had just come out of. I’ve given up trying to label where I am and what I am. I’ve been comforted immensely by the fact Jesus answered most questions with riddles, stories or more questions. He also sometimes changed his answer depending who was asking.  And why they were asking. He didn’t make the disciples agree to a 12-point statement of faith. I feel at peace with my “questions that have no right to go away” (from the David Whyte poem Sometimes).

I’ve occasionally felt pangs of guilt and worry that my deconstruction process has involved a lot of navel gazing and self-centredness. I’ve also wrestled with the frustration that to many, it looks like you’ve given up or ‘back-slidden’ when you no longer attend church. Nevertheless, I’ve found despite all my struggles, I am still drawn to Jesus. He still consumes my thoughts, my conversations (and clearly my podcast choices). He’s in the bedtime ponderings I have with my kids where we question things together and I can listen to what they think without jumping in with answers. He’s in my job as I seek to alleviate suffering rather than try to explain it away or spiritualise it. He’s in my friendships that feel so much more human and loving without the evangelical agenda. I’ve started to have honest conversations with the friends that bore the brunt of my super evangelical years and I’ve experienced so much love and grace from them in this. The world doesn’t feel like a “them and us” anymore.

In rejecting a certain type of Christianity, I’ve discovered Jesus in all the places I never looked. The freedom that has come from being ‘outside’ the religious community and their rules and exclusivity has been surprising and life giving in equal measure.

I sometimes wonder if that’s how the disciples might have described their time with Jesus…

– Jenna Gillies

In this episode we speak with artist, poet and author Emily Garcés. It’s a heart-warming, heart-breaking, inspiring and challenging conversation, as Emily shares with us her journey through life and faith, with all of its joys and struggles, as she wrestles with what it means to be fully alive.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Jemimah McAlpine and Tim Nash reflection on their own faith deconstruction and what has subsequently brought them life.

Interview starts at 11m 48s

Image used with permission.

BOOK

Hitchhiking with Drunken Nuns (US)

Hitchhiking with Drunken Nuns (UK)

ART

Etsy.com

Facebook

Instagram

QUOTES

“What self-help so often does is it presents us with an ideal – an ideal version of ourselves. We’re told that we can be a better parent, or that we can manage our finances better, or that we should be doing something more exciting with our lives. We’re always shown this future possibility of who we could be and then we have to buy into that by trying to become something new. And this understanding that I gain – that it isn’t about becoming that version of yourself in the future but it’s about embracing the messiness of who you are now – became such a freeing part of my life.”

“Walls are the opposite of bridges.

Walls are arguments you’re determined to win.

Walls are built to keep you safe.

Walls are built to keep you in.”

“I try to see life as a dance and as a response to the music that’s playing around me. And that manifests itself in creative forms. And I’m not just talking about people who write music and people who paint and the way that perhaps we traditionally see creativity. I think a creative heart and a creative mind and a creative openness to the world around us is how I envision the future of religion and the future of community.”

“Stories are so important because when we hear people give words to things that we didn’t have words for, it is a step towards our own healing.”

In this episode we speak with therapist, theologian and author, Mark Karris. For anyone going through a faith deconstruction, prayer is often near the top of the list of things we struggle to make sense of. And Mark is certainly no exception to this. He had the kind of traumatic childhood you’d only expect to see in a film. But despite all his prayers, and the prayers of his church, the situation steadily deteriorated. So we asked Mark why so often our prayers aren’t answered? How can a God of love observe such suffering without intervening? Why does God often seem to answer quite trivial prayers, and ignore the more significant ones? Mark has a fascinating take on all our questions, and proposes a hopeful, loving and grounded vision of prayer.

After the interview Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Nick Thorley reflect on their own faith deconstruction and how it has radically redefined how they understand and practice prayer.

Interview starts at 17m 45s.

Image used with permission.

BOOKS

Divine Echoes: Reconciling Prayer With the Uncontrolling Love of God

Religious Refugees: (De)Constructing Toward Spiritual and Emotional Healing

WEBSITE

Mark Gregory Karris

QUOTES

“God’s power is God’s wise and loving ability to work through and upon co-created elements to enact powerful liberating change towards beauty, truth, healing, goodness and flourishing.”

“Conspiring prayer is a form of prayer where we create space in our busy lives to align our heart with God’s heart, where our spirit and God’s Spirit breathe harmoniously together, and where we plot together to subversively overcome evil with acts of love and goodness.”

“Sometimes I just think we’re praying to God, and God’s saying, ‘I know – I want you to do that very thing.”

Dr. Hillary McBride is a clinical counselor in Vancouver. When she’s not doing clinical work she is researching, speaking, writing and podcasting (as a host on The Liturgists podcast), about the intersection of spirituality and mental health, trauma, embodiment, eating disorders, body image, and sex and sexuality. But we wanted to focus in on embodiment, so we spent a hour chatting about what it means to be truly embodied, why many of us feel so disconnected from our bodies, and how a greater sense of embodiment can profoundly reshape our sense of self, sexuality, spirituality, and just about anything else you can think of. 

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash, Jemimah McAlpine and Tim Nash reflect on their faith deconstruction and the ways in which this has redefined how they understand and relate to their bodies.

Interview starts at 17m 41s

Imaged used with permission.

BOOK

Mothers, Daughters, and Body Image: Learning to Love Ourselves as We Are

WEBSITE

Hillary McBride

QUOTES

“Our embodiment – the way we move through the world – tells us a story about who we are, what we’ve lived through, what matters to us, what the people around us believe about ‘good bodies’ and ‘bad bodies’ and if those exist and what they look like. We’re this living, breathing autobiography telling the story about being a human in this place, in this time.”

“If thinking is really only one part of being human, perhaps I’m missing these other entry points to know and experience the divine.”

“Our thinking will often take us a million miles away from what’s happening right now. And it’s only later in our lives that we come back and think to ourselves, ‘Why wasn’t I really present when that was happening?’ When my kids were young, on my wedding day, when I was graduating, that moment when I got to witness that really important piece of art or whatever it was. I was already in the next thing I was doing. So, when we practice calling our attention back into our bodies, what we’re really doing is calling our attention back into the present moment.”

“Getting to where we need to go often means finding a new language for where we’ve been.” Belden C. Lane, Backpacking with the Saints

I woke up to the sounds of the rocky river, crawled out of my sleeping bag, across the tent, quietly unzipped the door flap so as not to wake my brothers. It was the summer before my 10th birthday. I poked my feet out, slid my toes into my damp shoes, and worked my way out of the tent into the cool stillness of the morning. Our campsite sat along the Housatonic River in the Berkshires of Western Massachusetts. My three brothers and I spent hours walking the river, our sneakers soaked, shins peppered with bruised badges of our adventures. I don’t remember tracking time, other than when our bodies told us it was time to eat and we had to find our way back. We spent two weeks every summer camping in these untamed wild places. I felt at home among the trees, rivers and rocks and trails. My language of God was rooted in these adventures in the woods, getting lost in space and time and finding my way back again.

Image used with permission.

The world beyond the wild was much more complicated to navigate. So I paid close attention and learned how to fit in.

My mom was married at 18. She had my brother, and then me a year later and became a single mom at the age of 23. I don’t remember much about my father as we didn’t see him often after they divorced. (It was not until my twenties that I would see him again, and only two times before he died of a drug overdose.) My mom remarried when I was 8 and I became a sister to two more brothers. My stepfather, a firefighter and electrician was loving, hardworking and strict. I loved him, this guy who had chosen to be my dad. I also feared his anger and disappointment. I learned how to build things and fix things and work with my hands. And I learned to love the outdoors. We spent hours working but mostly playing in the back field and the Town Forest that bordered our yard.

My first formal understanding of God began at Walpole United Methodist Church, the white steepled church in our town center, walking distance from our house. I sang in the choir and attended Sunday School. Every year we had a church fair with ring toss games and strawberry shortcake. I would not have used the word faith to describe my understanding of God in that place. Words like community, picnics, scratchy choir robes, and hard pews come to top of mind. God was more of a distant observer, a fair but strict judge.

By middle school, my mom and I began attending a more evangelical church. Those years were filled with youth retreats, family camp, Bible quiz team, Sunday suppers in the basement. We were immediately welcomed into this community. It was a ‘come as you are’ kind of place. On my first retreat, we piled into an old 10 passenger van and drove to New Hampshire, back to my beloved woods. I gave my life to Christ that weekend. When I returned home, I told my parents I was “born again.” I excelled in church, taught Sunday School and led my youth group. I felt a part of something bigger than myself. Meanwhile, my family struggled. My brother Dan followed my first father’s footsteps using alcohol and drugs to cope with his own wild heart. Things got messier as my step-brothers stopped talking to our dad. All of this reinforced a desire to be the good girl, which came pretty naturally to a pleaser and conflict avoider. But my best efforts couldn’t fix my family. My dad came in from the barn one afternoon with a softness I rarely, if ever, saw on his face. He said, “Keri, I told God I couldn’t do it alone anymore.” That was it. That was his prayer – in the field – by the barn. God was present.

With no real idea where I wanted to go after high school, I found my way to Calvin College, a Christian Reformed school in Michigan. It checked three important boxes for me. I could play Field Hockey. It was a flight’s distance from home. I would meet Christian guys. I took religion class and went to chapel but what really stuck with me through those years was my involvement with an organization called Young Life. I felt like I had found my people – a community of leaders spending time with high school students and a ministry that focused on relationships over rules. It seemed pure in its approach to share the Gospel in a way that was lived out loud. And I chose to go on YL staff out of college as a “church partner”. At a new staff retreat, a guy spilled my milk on my tray and I guess I found middle school humor endearing because I married him.

Relationship and community. Would I call them the fruits of my faith during the early season of my life? Or were they the foundations… I’m not sure which. And I am not sure it matters. Either way, the language felt true.

The transition from youth to adult certainly transitioned my faith as well. From Michigan, we moved to Boston and then to Amsterdam with our two-year- old son, Sam during 9/11. We had our son, Jack the year we returned, and moved shortly after to Connecticut, then New Jersey and finally to Texas where we have been for 8 years. Through those years, we sat side by side with Methodists, Presbyterians, Christian Reformed, Reformed (I discovered there’s a difference:), Catholics, Baptists, Episcopalians… each with their own doctrines, practices, cultural context, rhythms and flow.

Our last move to the Great state of Texas, I could describe in many ways. Great is not one of the words I would use. Moving to Amsterdam was, in many ways, easier than Texas. Our first years were filled with the newness and getting connected and I had become pretty good at it. Finding a church became much more challenging. We had always looked for a community, neighborhood church where we knew other families. Out of curiosity, we tried the Mega church with the amusement theme park for the kids and the prize station. We spent time at two other churches. The Baptist one spoke often of works and felt short on Grace. The Methodist church was grace filled and fun even if a bit shallow, maybe in an attempt to not offend anyone. I didn’t like feeling like a church shopper. And maybe it wasn’t the churches but me, us? Everyone’s first question in Texas, is “Where do you go to church?” It would have been an intrusive question in the Northeast but here it was assumed. When we tried to grow a Young Life program here, we heard whispers of it being “Christian Lite.” It never got off the ground.

I can’t separate my evolving faith from politics as much as I would like to. Maybe it was that it just revealed something I had not seen. I’ve heard the word apocalypse used recently. When I look back at the Greek roots, meaning to “uncover or reveal,” it sounds about right. Even before the 2016 election, I was watching an Us and Them tribalism develop and I did not like what I was seeing, especially from my Christian brothers and sisters. We attended church less and less until I couldn’t see the point in making our teens go. And so, I went on my own journey.

I put down my favorite historical fiction novels, and began to pick up mostly women writers on faith and justice. I devoured their stories and applauded their voices, and began to find my own. I started listening to podcasts, interestingly by mostly men at that time. They introduced me to theologians, & philosophers, thinkers and mystics. I found all of my questions and doubts were echoed and no answers were given, just more questions. And I started to feel like I could breathe again. I was slowly letting go of old rigid certainties and venturing into the divine mystery of God. I found that this journey to the edges of my faith felt more real and intimate than the one I was leaving behind.

Exploring new faith trails and embodied practices has been a renewing and invigorating experience. I have gone back to my wild places, the deep woods of my faith and in some ways returned to the curiosity of my child self. Maybe I am being born again, again? I am untethering weighty beliefs and releasing them downriver. I am wading through thickets and branches, clearing paths. I am exploring dark caverns of doubt and finding gems of hope. I am digging at the roots of teachings, and weeding out language that was choking new growth. I am rediscovering God in God’s playground. The journey has brought me back home to the Wild where wonder and curiosity are my guides.

– Kerin Beauchamp 

In this episode, black liberation theologian Prof Anthony Reddie and the poet Ravelle-Sadé Fairman reflect on black experience. These searching thoughts begin with the recent murder of George Floyd at the hands of US police officers, and from there reach into a knotted web of power and oppression: the disproportionate suffering of black people from Covid19, the enduring roots of European colonial rule, the dynamics of white fragility, the experience of black embodiment, the veneration of the statues of slave traders, and the emerging anti-racism movement. 

Anthony Reddie is professor of Liberation Theology at Oxford University and the author of many books, including Is God Colour Blind? and Theologising Brexit. Ravelle-Sadé Fairman is a poet from Nottingham, UK, who performs as A Poetic Perception.

Images used with permission.

BOOKS

Is God Colour-Blind?: Insights From Black Theology For Christian Ministry

Black Theology, Slavery and Contemporary Christianity

Theologizing Brexit: A Liberationist and Postcolonial Critique

WEBSITES

Anthony Reddie

A Poetic Perception Facebook, Instagram, YouTube

QUOTES

“It’s interesting that the Prime Minister is going to set up another commission, in order to tell us things that many of us have known for a long time…What we need is not more analysis, what we need is structural change. And firstly to recognise the toxic and poisonous nature of white supremacy.”

“The use of extreme violence, as in the case of George Floyd…is the extreme end of the manifestations of racism. Most original white people are not involved in that. However, what they don’t notice is the way in which society is constructed on notions of white privilege, that allows a certain level of advantage of white people over black people and people of other minority ethnic identities, that is not based on anything other than a presumption of superiority.” 

“It’s interesting how the Prime Minister can promise swift justice for anti-racist protestors who pulled down a statue of what was, in the end, a racist slave trader. This, I think, is symbolic of the nature of black lives not mattering… It tells us what we’ve always known. Property matters more to white people than black people’s bodies, and our feelings, and our experiences.” 

“White people will have individual black friends. But how much of your life is still codified by living in, effectively, a white domain with white norms? You may have the odd black friend, but how many of you have immersed yourself in contexts in which you are the minority? … In what ways are you living in a multicultural nation in ways that are challenging your sense of settled whiteness?”

“There is a sense in which whiteness can only function so long as it creates distance from the other and is enabled to continue to pump up false notions of superiority and normality when compared to others.”

“George Floyd’s death has enable people to see. And once you see something and you know it, you can’t unknow it. And not bring able to unknow it means that more ordinary people, who thought this had nothing to do with them, will now realise that for the cause of peace and justice and for a better equitable way of being human in the world, change needs to happen and they will be committed to that change.”

When I was a nurse at a hospital, we had a patient who eventually died of his cancer in our ward. Later his husband wrote a death notice in the papers saying: “The journey not the arrival matters”. I have kept the notice ever since – maybe because my journey was long, and I hoped to arrive.

Image used with permission.

These days it is 100 years ago since the border between Denmark and Germany was placed, where it still is today. That is a story worth telling, but in my story it is only the condition I set out from. On a summer day 25 years ago, I left the apartment in Flensburg, where I lived at the time, mounted my bike and drove straight west. When I reached the west coast, I headed north, crossing the border into Denmark. It was a warm and dry summer, so I could sleep on the dyke in my sleeping bag among the sheep. Earlier that year I had returned from Paris, where my dream had shattered. I wanted to live in the city, study at the Sorbonne University and spend my days at the Bibliothèque Saint-Geneviève like Simone de Beauvoir. Loneliness and a sense of detachment drove me back to my hometown, where I started working on a farm, hands in earth growing vegetables and pondering life. 

I grew up in Flensburg as part of the Danish minority in Germany – so crossing borders and shifting between languages and cultures was natural to me from the beginning. I did not grow up in an explicitly Christian family – everyone being baptized and confirmed out of tradition. Putting words around faith was not a thing you did. For many reasons I became a searching and seeking soul, though. I had been on exchange in the south of England, when I was 12, and I spend a year in Japan with a Japanese family when I was 15. It was the year of the Tiananmen Square massacre and the fall of the Berlin wall. The world opened to me, and I thought it to be a thrilling place. When I could not find people to talk to and share this experience, I turned towards literature, making many good friends: “We read to know we are not alone”, as C.S. Lewis put it. A German author became a kind of stepfather to me, opening wide the doors into realms of thinking and music, art and beauty. He was a believer, and I remember him saying that as Christians we should never be subject to the Zeitgeist, but have access to an immense freedom rooted in the gospel and Christian tradition. But he was also a man traumatized by World War II, a shadow that also lingered over me: How can you live in a world where such atrocities took place in the country, that I was a citizen of?

When I came home from Japan, I became part of a class at school that was dysfunctional with massive problems of bullying, that no adult acted on. I became friends with a girl from another class. She was Christian in a conscious and explicit way. We had long discussions about faith and literature. We both read Sheldon Vanaukens “A Severe Mercy”, and I started reading the Bible and joined her at her Baptist Church, where eventually I was baptized (again), leaving the Danish state church. My family could not meet me in my new faith, and I became more and more isolated from them and other people my age.

In my last year at high school loneliness took hold of my heart driving me into an existential crisis, that almost cost my life: What was I to do with my life? All my relations were troublesome, and I did not feel that I belonged anywhere, feeling a total stranger. I talked five languages fluently, but had nothing to say in any of them. I had experienced so much through books and could quote many wise authors and poets but lacked experience of life and words of my own. Not even my faith could withstand the abyss. A woman from church witnessed my suffering and wanted to exorcize the evil. I never saw her again. I wanted to go home and ended up in a closed psychiatric ward. Strangely that was a relief: people here did not pretend anything. They did not wear masks. Later I came to understand that this is part of the illness: not being able to wear a mask when you need one. But for the time being, I felt part of an authentic fellowship, smoking cigarettes, drinking coffee and reading Camus. Eventually it was the music of Bach and meeting honest people that started a gradual process of healing.

When in the summer of 1995 I set out on my bike, one of the goals was a summer camp at the Danish west coast arranged by the Danish Christian Student movement (DKG). I did not know anybody there, and I only came because I did not have any other plans for the summer, and the program seemed interesting: About Time. Among the guest speakers where two sisters from the protestant order of The Daughters of Mary (Mariadøtrene). Their being and words impressed me. I learned that they lived a monastic life just north of Flensburg and the border, their family mostly consisting of Swedish women all ages. Their home was open to women who needed rest or comfort, silence or someone to talk to. It was the beginning of a lifelong friendship. I regularly came to visit and took part in their everyday life of gardening and cooking, praying and singing, teaching them German and sharing some of my struggles. There was a time, when I considered becoming part of the family, but it became clear to me that this step would be out of fear of life, a flight, and not because I was called to live a monastic life. 

So, I continued my confused, bewildered and rootless life, leaving Flensburg to study in Denmark. I considered studying theology, but at the time had lost confidence in words, having experienced too much hypocrisy. After some detours around university and the Pentecostal church, I ended up studying to be a deacon in combination with a health professional training. That was an eyeopener to me: both meeting and living with the people I studied with and the challenge of taking care of people at hospitals and care homes in combination with a theological training – it made so much sense! At the end of these studies, I had to write a deacon treatise that I called “Diaconia viatorum – living in the interim”, where I got to summon up all that I found important to be able to live a fruitful and patient life as Christian in the world. A world where we are both confronted with suffering and need of others and self, a world that is not as it ought or could be, always stretched between the already and not yet, being a citizen of the kingdom of God and at the same time a citizen of a fallible democratic state in a postmodern time characterized by spiritual poverty.

It felt as though I had found my vocation, and I was at the same time miraculously surprised and found by love: I fell in love with the man that I am still married to. Since he studied in Berlin at the time, I continued to study to be a nurse in Copenhagen in order to be able to work in Germany as well, where we chose to live. After some back and forth we ended up living in Copenhagen together, and suddenly it all went so fast: getting married, working as a nurse at hospitals and eventually becoming a mother of three wonderful children. 

In 2011 I grew weary of working at hospitals where I never fully felt that I belonged. I started working at the hospice, where I am still working as a nurse and deacon. So many of my detours and experiences suddenly made sense: meeting people close to dying with all the symptoms that come along, helping patients live as well as possible until the end, helping relatives to be alongside and accepting helplessness and loss of control, spending their time with something meaningful. Holding a space around them requires many different talents. Now at last the professionalism of being deacon came to its own too. 

But being a mother of three and a nurse with changing shifts, working weekends and holidays also wore me out: there were the nights with too little sleep, the endless needs of children, patients and relatives, lunchboxes to be made and a household to tend to with hardly any time left to take care of my own body and soul. When my father got terminally ill in 2013/14, my body collapsed under the weight of too much responsibility and too little rest. 

During that period, I had to learn how to breathe and be inside my body again. Colleagues and friends told me to take care of myself – which was exactly what I could not do. It was a long and painful process during which I also reread my deacon treatise, wondering whether I really wrote it since there were so many helpful insights – how come I had forgotten them along the way?

Since I moved to Copenhagen 20 years ago, I have visited the Cathedral (Church of Our Lady) regularly. Here we married, and here our children were baptized. My family knows of and accepts my need of church, of singing and services, although they do not share it. All through the years I would go to see a pastor now and then, seeking advice and pastoral care (in German we have the beautiful word “Seelsorge”: care for the soul). When once I asked for spiritual guidance, one of them refused. That is also being a protestant: you have to think and find out for yourself. Although it is tough at times, I am grateful that I never experienced abuse in any way!

When it comes to the congregation though, I still feel a stranger and at the edge of it, hardly knowing the name of any of the people that I have seen and attended service with over the years. I think the body of Christ is beautiful in all its diversity, and I like to come in the German church of Saint Peters as well as the more progressive church of Brorson here in Copenhagen. But when it comes to really being a committed part of a fellowship, it feels suffocating to me. When I attend service, when we share the Eucharist, I have a strong sense of being part of the body of Christ that transcendences time and space.

There have been times where I felt it to be wrong somehow – that I needed to be part of a defined congregation. Now I try to accept that it just won’t work for me. The concept of being a pilgrim resonates with me in many ways: A pilgrim is a ‘peregrinus’, a stranger, who is always on his or her way to a goal ahead: “Not all those who wander are lost” (J.R.R. Tolkien).

When I was already an adult I found out that my name means ’someone belonging to Christ’. That is where I find hope: I belong to Christ with all of me – my story, my longing, my vulnerability, my shortcomings, my marks and masks, my stains and fatigue. I am on my way, as best I can. The goal is not to become the best version of myself, a good person, or to perfect anything. If glimpses of the kingdom of God can shimmer through my life from time to time, then I am where I should be. 

For almost 10 years now we have been living in a part of Copenhagen called Nørrebro, which is the most divert and multicultural part of Denmark, and in that sense a parallel to the borderland,that I came from. I never imagined I would live in a city with children, and I often miss the horizon and nature. Still this is where I am, and it does make sense. I try to accept the consequences and gift of our choices and of my work: witnessing so much suffering and loss, pain, anger and death, being reminded of our mortality and powerlessness on a daily basis does not leave you unmarked. Every life has a price. And I like the idea of being poured out, giving it all away in this life, that is so very real and full of beauty and cruelty.

Having been in my own company for more than 46 years, I know that I will stumble and fall again. I know that I will be overwhelmed by the demands of life, others and myself. I continue to struggle with being a woman, mother, daughter, nurse, deacon, Christian, and part of a minority – life simply doesn’t come to me easily. I will disappoint and be disappointed. I will be exhausted, weary and angry, and life East of Eden will seem barren and meaningless from time to time, a wasteland and a provocation, where I will forget insights and what really matters, while trying to navigate in the many seeming contradictions of everyday life. I will sense my poverty and vulnerability that mysteriously turns out to be my strength. 

As a nomad I chose to belong here as best I can. There will always be places of rest that are home to me on the way – goodness, joy and love are also part of life. And I will not be alone: there are people with me on this journey, sisters and brothers in Christ – some are alive and around, some live abroad or have already passed. And the church is there with its reservoir of buildings, traditions, texts, songs and liturgy, that I can lean on when my faith faulters, reminding me of the things I cannot tell myself and the fact that I am not the author of this script. And most importantly I know that I am always already loved, even though I don’t feel it, and that I will always be found again by Him/Her/Them (words fall short) no matter how much I go astray or loose myself. And that He/She/They meet me in the people and events I encounter, as I go along.

– Kirsten Bühler

In this episode Mark Oakley shares with us his lifelong relationship with poetry. He believes poetry is the language of the soul, and should therefore be the person of faith’s native language. For Mark poetry has put to words his deepest longing, has sustained him through troubled times, and has transformed the way he’s come to see God, himself and others. And Mark believes that in our ever more chaotic world, now more than ever we need to rediscover the language of poetry. 

After the interview, Nomad hosts David Blower and Jemimah McAlpine reflect on the role poetry has played in their faith and lives.

Interview starts at 8m 45s.

Image used with permission.

BOOKS

The Splash of Words: Believing in Poetry

The Collage of God

QUOTES

“Religious language is full of awful, dead metaphors. I do think language is a bit like water – unless it’s moving, it’s stagnant. And I think part of the problem with communicating a religious faith today is that the language that we draw on is rather dead and not resonant.”

“If you’re going to be a person of faith over the next few years, you’re going to need to be poet. By which I mean you’re going to need to take language seriously. Almost sacramentally, actually. But you’re also going to need to be prophetic, which is a slight overused word I think. Just cause you’re angry doesn’t mean you’re a prophet. A prophet is looking at how we’re behaving and reporting back to us as to what’s going to happen if we keep carrying on as if; somebody who wants to interrupt what we’re doing for restorative purposes. So, a good prophet is not condemning, but is trying to put things right and restore wholeness and so on.”

Tall. Chiseled features. Blue eyes. Flowing brown hair. Kenny Logins 80s-style facial hair (is that a trans-Atlantic reference or just USA? Well, Google it, I guess). Robes. Lamb draped over him like a towel over a beach-goer’s neck on his way to the sea.

Image used with permission.

Growing up, that was my Jesus. Or at least that was how he was depicted in a painting found in the traditionally stain-glassed, steepled church and Christian school where I grew up outside Detroit, Michigan. The painting hung above a side altar reserved for baptisms off to the side of the main sanctuary. The painting stuck with me, maybe because that was where my brother was Christened, and my four-year old self was more interested in pictures than the heady vows and words batted about and above my wee head.

To my head, like for many Midwestern kids, there was just church, where we worshipped God, and the way to God was belief in Jesus (because John 3:16, of course). Every one of my WASPy friends was loved by Jesus just the same. There was no anxiety. It was a simple transaction. It was a non-choice, really. Who would say “no”? Heaven in exchange for belief in Jesus because he loves you this-you-know-for-the-Bible-tells-you-so. Plus, your parents encouraged it. And as a kid, what more than that did you need?

As for the other option: hell. For disbelief. For untrust. For sin. At least, unforgiven sin. Don’t forget to repent, young Matt. Repent, and sin’ll just be washed away. Dirty, wash, rinse, repeat. We are saved… by this vicious cycle. Others outside the circle of faith who didn’t submit to the vicious cycle, however, would be assuredly hell bound. 

Did I say there was no anxiety? Yeah, I lied. (Sin.) There was plenty: anxiety about a judgmental God staring down, seeing my every move. Every. Move. 

Yikes. 

Some years later into my childhood, a teacher during Christmas pageant practice led me and some friends to the side baptism altar with the painting of CrossFit Jesus. I remember being wide-eyed as she gave the altar a tug to swing the whole wooden piece outward, pulled a curtain aside, and revealed a secret of complete and utter… underwhelm. 

Behind the altar was… wait for it… storage. A room maybe 12’ by 8’ held dust, cobwebs, boxes, the wooden manger for Christmas, and the seasonal banners that hung throughout the building. 

How’s that for a metaphor? Behind Captain America Jesus was a room filled with dust and stuff. 

Caveat: the preceding summary of my faith upbringing (with just a pinch – nay, a liberal dash – of snark and bitterness) is a tail of a much larger, more complex elephant. The teachers and faith leaders generally meant well. It was not, by any means, strictly evangelical in the most toxic interpretations of the label. They provided what many would consider a nurturing environment – in the best of times. 

What happens, though, when true existential challenges test our mettle and faith? We all encounter pain to differing degrees, but what happens when those around you in positions of power and authority haven’t been tested – or in quite the same way? Or they lack caring instincts? Or they employ shallow faith slogans to address paradigm-shifting suffering?

My great (not my last, but certainly most profound) unraveling (deconstruction?) began with witnessing the abrupt death of my dad at age 11. That one sentence cannot begin to capture the anguish, journey, and redemption of the 31 years since then that bring me to now. Some in the church thankfully gave some care in the aftermath, but the Church’s care was arm’s-length and mechanical. I still cringe at the Christian and self-help platitudes that pummeled me, my mom, and my brother, and I’ll leave it at that. You all know them, Nomads. I know you do. I feel you do. I’ve read your comments and blog posts to recognize my kindred spirits, and I wouldn’t write this now if I didn’t feel in familiar, empathic company.

I can also say that experiencing sincere love and compassion rescued me, and frankly, it neither mattered from where it came nor did it always come from Christians. I found in bits and pieces, here and there, a few other surrogate father figures and steady friends along the way. Aside from my immediate family, I found the first divine words of acceptance, forgiveness, humanity, and empathy, not from a clergy person, but from a therapist. It was a revelation. 

After many years of experiential journey, I married a wonderful woman who reintroduced me to church in Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA, in an old repurposed shopping mall. The church was called Mars Hill, and it was pastored by some guy named Rob Bell. It was as contemporary as it got, which was a culture shock from my more stylistically-traditional upbringing. But musical choices aside, oh, did I have my eyes opened. I had no idea what the gospel (The Way), the Bible (not a book, but a library of books spanning centuries), Jesus (probably not blue-eyed; chiseled? unknown), God (   ), and first century context (a palm branch was political?!) could mean and not mean. Bell invited speakers like Shane Claiborne and Peter Rollins and referenced the works of Fr. Richard Rohr. A year-long series was built around a Brian McLaren book. It was… Nomadic, which probably groomed me and explains my affinity for this community.

My most powerful take-away from Mars Hill came in a single Greek word: metanoia. In the messy business of translation throughout centuries, that word came to me in English language Bibles as “repent.” Cracking the rigidity of some orthodoxies, Bell pointed to theologians wrestling over a more authentic translation as “fundamental transformation,” as in metamorphosis. Well, that just blows the doors off the box in which so many of our churches put Jesus, doesn’t it? 

Today, I recalibrate repentance away from how I had osmosed it beneath a mythological Norse shepherd Jesus. I hope I am a more fluid thing – a hybrid sheep-shepherd traveling, not over his shoulder, but on the path beside a paradoxical Nazarean rabbi-healer. Ever transforming together. On a teachable path not just of belief but of radically-practiced compassion. 

There is no transaction now, only journey with this sage savior.

“And miles to go before I sleep. And miles to go before I sleep.” – Robert Frost

– Matt Jones 

Theologian, poet and author Nicola Slee joins Jemimah to talk about when she first encountered feminist theology and its potential to challenge, inform and enrich our Christian faith and practice. 

Nicola Slee is Director of Research at the Queen’s Foundation for Ecumenical Theology and Professor of Feminist Practical Theology in the Faculty of Religion at VU Amsterdam. Her research interests range around Christian feminist practical theology but also encompass poetry and theology and other aspects of practical theology.

After the interview, Nomad hosts David Blower and Jemimah McAlpine reflect on the increasing role feminism has played in their evolving faith and lives.

Interview starts at 19m 22s.

Image used with permission.

BOOKS

Sabbath: The Hidden Heartbeat of our Lives

Seeking the Risen Christa

Praying Like A Woman

Faith and Feminism: An Introduction to Christian Feminist Theology

QUOTES

“Maybe as the world becomes a less and less safe place – with climate crisis – maybe people revert to their bunkers. And I can see the attraction of very, very clear hard and fast ideologies that people feel give them security. And feminism doesn’t really fit with all of that.” 

“One of the things about poetry is language is working very intensely and at many, many different levels. So, it’s not straight-forward scientific literal language, which is kind of flat and only has one meaning. Religious symbols. So, if we talk about something like ‘Wisdom,’ or the ‘Word of God,’ or almost any image from Scripture, it’s a rich, multivalent, multi-leveled way that language is working. And that’s exactly how poetry’s functioning. So, to me it makes absolute sense that poetry has always been a primary medium for faith.”

“We do need images, doctrines that do look like us, because if we don’t have those, we won’t get onto the page; we won’t start the journey. But if they all look like us, then we just simply become confirmed in all our own prejudices. So, also in faith, there is the whole tradition of Christ, God, the Spirit at work in the other – what’s different, what’s strange. And that’s a very common theme in Scripture.”

My story is one of becoming 

Unrecognisable.

I was a home schooled child of the 80’s who went to church three times a week and was the star of Sunday School.

I was a teenager of the 90’s who went on an international mission trip every single summer and lived for church and youth group. 

I was a Bible College student/missionary/youth worker in the 00’s who got married for all the wrong reasons and ended up in a very unhealthy marriage but was able to gloss over that, because I was a successful full time church worker with two gorgeous children, a well-loved worship leader, with a passion for women and families and pastoral work. 

My church loved me and the sense of belonging I got from being in that place managed to eclipse what I viewed as temporal earthly problems. 

Image used with permission.

I clutched my ministry career close to my heart and held on to it with all my strength because it was the one thing that made me feel like I wasn’t a failure.  It was a massive validating factor in my life filling it with purpose and providing a portal to joy that I did not have at home. I felt so grateful to God for giving it to me, because it felt like it was saving my life, and for many years it did. So as I worshiped and sang and prayed in the euphorically spiritual environment of a massive well-loved worship event one summer evening, Spirit showed me how hard I was gripping, and told me to open my hands and to let it go. I was scared, but I took a deep breath, and physically opened my hands while on my knees. In that moment I heard a whisper to my spirit. “I want you to catch babies”. Just like that. Out of the blue. I knew I was being called to Midwifery. I was scared. I didn’t want to leave the ministry, but I couldn’t ignore it. 

Two weeks later my marriage imploded for the final time. It took me 9 months of agonisingly processing with friends, a therapist, myself and God to make a decision. Leaving had never been an option before, I had always thought one day God would do a miracle and our marriage would be an amazing testimony. However I came to the realization that God loved me more than He loved my marriage and that it was time to go.

The freedom and experiences I had within the first few months of leaving blew my world wide open and fast tracked my deconstruction journey. I found myself traveling down to London to see Rob Bell speak, not because of what he had to say but because I wanted to see for myself how completely at peace he was with where he was at after leaving the fold of evangelicalism. I started devouring not only his Podcast, but the Liturgists as well and anything else that resonated with where I was at and what I was experiencing.

I continued working for the church while quietly keeping my deconstruction journey to myself, however there were those who had been watching me closely, suspecting, wondering, and waiting to catch me out. All it took was one unguarded Facebook post about an inspirational teacher I’d been following and learning from who was outside the lines, and it triggered the beginning of the end for me and my relationship with the church. I came under intense attack. I was confronted under the guise of a friendly catch up, and told all the work I had been doing for the church was tainted by “new age influences”, that I was clearly “being deceived” and that I was becoming a dangerous influence because I practiced yoga. I had intended to gracefully exit my life as a church leader, but instead it was a messy exit, full of pain, betrayal, and lost friendships. There were still people in the leadership who loved me and wanted me to “just ignore” what was being said, and to carry on being part of the community, and for a season I tried. However I then experienced the second wave of pain which was realising that once I was no longer in leadership or involved in the inner workings of the church, I was invisible. People didn’t seem interested in really knowing me anymore. My midwifery training was full on and I very quickly become ‘out of sight, and out of mind’ and friendships I had counted on to see me through this transitional time seemed to fall away. I felt my worth as a friend had diminished perhaps because I could no longer be who I used to be. This broke my heart. 

Since then, my deconstruction journey has been characterised by the loss of my reputation as a leader, a friend, and a Christian. I’ve felt spiritually lost for a lot of the time and simply taken comfort in the voices of those who were further along like Rob Bell, Science Mike, Michael Gungor, Nomad Podcast etc. 

Recently I have started to rebuild. I’m nearing the end of my University course and will be a qualified midwife soon. I look forward to a new career, but am taking care to not make it my sole identity like I did with my church work. 

My journey has also been characterised by much beauty and new life. I’ve experienced new love, and a deeper connection to nature. A year ago I turned 40 and spent the day on the island of Iona, completely connected to the earth, feeling as though the Island itself was loving me as I laid in the grass and stared up at the sky. I danced on the beach there and prayed over my future. A week later I was in Rome on a Sacred Feminine embodiment retreat when I found the strength to physically turned my back on the Vatican and walk away. I finally felt safe enough to admit to God that I was done. I no longer needed the established Church to give me my identity, to validate me, or as a place to find belonging. I told Jesus that if He wanted me, He’d have to win my heart back. It was a tremendously mystical moment in which I feel the person of Jesus actually appeared to me and sang over me as I walked away to freedom.  

Since then my world has opened up. I am discovering more embodied spiritual practices and exploring other traditions. Jesus makes an appearance in the midst of this, and I feel His presence and His unconditional love. I still feel pain over my loss of the Church community. I still fight bitterness taking root over the people who seem to have forgotten about me. Although I know the divorce was absolutely the right thing, there are inevitably ongoing consequences for my children that I have to face and work through. 

I have a new partner who is amazing, but the relationship is under a lot of scrutiny for many reasons, and I still get paralysed with fear that there is no way this could possibly be “right” and my ego is desperately wanting to retain approval from the outside world in order to feel OK, so I have to fight self-sabotage at every turn. 

I’ve made new friends though through University, and through the local Vegan Café that has a heart for wellness and community. I’ve enjoyed just being April….not “April from the local Church”, who is learning to just be, and experiencing the freedom of loving people without any agenda or judgment. 

I’m incredibly grateful for the chance to have a whole new life. I’m still early on in my journey, but I am become more “unrecognisable” every day. There is a grief to that, but also an incredible peace. 

– April Hunter

In this episode vicar of St. Martin-in-the-Fields Church at Trafalgar Square, London and professor of Christian ethics at King’s College, Sam Wells shares his belief that to live well is to improvise well. He defines improvisation in the theatre as “a practice through which actors seek to develop trust in themselves and one another in order that they may conduct unscripted dramas without fear.” And that, he believes, is how we should approach life. Building trust, overcoming fear, conducting relationships, and making choices – all without a script. The Bible therefore is not a ‘script’ but a training school that shapes our habits and practices. And living well is “faithfully improvising on the Christian tradition.” 

After the interview Nomad hosts David Blower and Nick Thorley reflect on how Sam’s ideas might shape their evolving faith.

Interview starts at 16m 30s. 

Image used with permission.

BOOKS

Improvisation

Incarnational Ministry

Incarnational Mission: Being with the World

A Future That’s Bigger Than The Past

Face to Face: Meeting Christ in Friend and Stranger

QUOTES

“None of us chose to be born. We can’t approach God or the state with a sense of, ‘I bought this life for big money and I want my money’s worth.’ We can adopt that attitude, but it’s nonsense. All of us are lucky to be here. We never knew there was such a thing as existence before we came out of our mother’s womb. It’s grace. It’s a wonderful sense of joy and grace. And it seems to me during this time of captivity – as it were – our role as churches and as individual Christians is to cultivate a sense of abundance rather than scarcity; a sense of the wondrous things in life that are still true and we’re more aware of, rather than the conventional things in life we’ve been deprived of.”

“Re-incorporating is a huge statement of abundance – that we have always got far more resources than we usually think of. Because we’re always looking for the new and the clever, we neglect what we’ve already been given.”

“To concentrate on ethics as simply dilemmas – as crises of decision – is to find yourself in the cave and say, ‘What do we do?’ without recognizing that how you resolve a situation is based on years of formation of character and training.”

In thinking about contributing something of my story here, I’ll admit to flinching a little when ruminating on the final three words of the Nomad catchphrase, “Stumbling through the post-Christendom wilderness, looking for signs of hope.” Given the current COVID-19 pandemic, a few years of faith deconstruction and a glass half-empty modus operandi, I wondered if I’d have anything hopeful to offer. As such, the timing is poignant – it has forced me to pause, reflect and to uncover signs of hope present here and now.

Image used with permission.

I expect my early life will not be unfamiliar to many of the readers here; I grew up in a white middle class home with a reasonably functional family unit attending our local Baptist (and moderately conservative) church. My life as a teenager and young adult revolved around church, youth group and being a good Christian kid – making sure not to (with mixed success) cuss, drink alcohol or look at pornography. During these years, my internal world was full of angst, shame and self-loathing as the consequence of an addiction to the physical objectification of people and the external manifestations of this: pornography and masturbation. Time and again I pleaded for God to take away the thorn from my side and time and again I was disappointed when my prayers were left unanswered. The Original Sin narrative; I am inherently broken and bad and in need of saving, was continuously reinforced by this pattern of addictive behaviour. I never felt sure of my salvation, I was fearful that I would never be free from this and consequently I could not move forward in the life that I thought God had for me. I cannot recall ever hearing a message at church or youth group speaking to any of these issues; there was inexplicable silence on a topic that statistics suggested the majority of people at this age were dealing with in one way or another; however I was in no way aware of this at the time – I felt wholly alone in my struggles. God’s love seemed conditional on whether I did x and not y and I felt utterly stuck in a perpetual cycle oscillating between sin, shame, repentance, and forgiveness – wash, rinse, repeat. Questions circled round and round in my mind as to whether I had not been praying the right prayer, not been genuine enough; could God not hear me because of my sin? Was I too far gone? 

My image of God was not the classic old white guy with a beard, although I did have a sense of God existing as a being in some sense, having consciousness and a will, and of a God who was all powerful, knowing, and present. I didn’t see a God who was angry with me so much as disappointed. Not until much later would I allow the questions simmering below the surface about God’s character and role in the world to burst forth.

Skipping forward a few years, I married Jaime (also a fellow Beloved Listener) and we moved to a new city, away from the comforts of our home church communities, drifting in and out of churches but never finding meaningful connection. Those experiences led us to explore what true Christian community should or could look like and it was then, around 5 years ago, that we happened upon the first Tom Wright Nomad episode – we had found home. Our journey (mercifully, Jaime and I have been in step with each other) of questioning and deconstructing has seemed to uncannily mirror Nomad’s

Last week whilst reminiscing over old photos my 7-year-old son saw a photo of himself asleep in his old cot, exclaiming, “that’s when I dreamed that God was gone.” Queue long pause: God. Was. Gone. I was struck then that God as I had known ‘him’ was also gone. Gone was the concept of God as a being of infinite power who orchestrates all and demands perfection – in its place an imprecise and at times nebulous conception of God as the creative, sustaining, and loving divine mystery for which words and concepts otherwise fail me. Amongst other new ways of seeing the world, gone now are the ‘shoulds and should nots’; gone is the concept that I am inherently evil; gone is the cyclical torment of self-loathing. I have instead found compassion and grace for the times when I fail and am less likely to wallow in self-condemnation despite still not fully having a handle on the way I view and objectify others. In short, I can now accept that I am a work in progress, knowing that I will never achieve perfection – and I am OK with this.

In circling back to hope, I recently read a Center for Action and Contemplation daily meditation in which Richard Rohr and Cynthia Bourgeault wrote that hope is vital to stave off our human propensity to despair. They distinguish between ordinary and mystical hope where ordinary hope is tied to outcome, an optimistic sense that things will get better in the future. Mystical hope, in contrast, is not tied to the future or having reference to external circumstances but is rather having to do with “the immediate experience of being met, held in communion, by something intimately at hand” and its fruit is “strength, joy and satisfaction: an unbearable lightness of being.” Richard writes, “the journey to the wellsprings of hope is really a journey toward the centre, toward the innermost ground of our being where we meet and are met by God.” For me, there is a striving towards this mystical hope, I am not there yet but have placed a foot on the path. Given the chance to stop and take stock, particularly in light of COVID-19, I see hope in a number of places: the new connections made with neighbours and connections re-made with friends and family; I see hope in the resurgence of wildlife and reduction in air pollution; I see hope in the way the vulnerable are being prioritised (at least here in New Zealand). In writing this and with the gift of retrospect, I can see how compassion and grace have been worked out in my own life and I am hopeful that we can emerge post-COVID-19 more aware of our interconnectedness, our need for compassion and grace for one another and the environment we inhabit.        

– Rhys Parry

During a lockdown tidy up, my husband came across some DVDs of old photos. Looking through them was like entering a portal back to the early 2000s: babies, bootcut jeans and, for my husband, a full head of hair. And there on the TV screen were people I hadn’t seen in years – mostly friends from the conservative evangelical church we attended back when we lived in another part of the country, miles away from where we are now. 

Image used with permission.

Watching the slide show of photos stirred up a tangle of emotions which has manifested often in me recently: affection for people with whom I once spent a lot of time mingled with the rawness of the realisation that this evangelical culture in which I was so steeped affected me in some negative ways. The people in those old photos were good, well-meaning folks. They worked hard to put on events, give money and provide support to people who needed it, and the sense of community was strong. When our first baby was born, we were provided with delicious meals and generous gifts. There was always someone to turn to.  

But there was the less than healthy leadership structure I accepted, the pressure to show up to everything and the guilt I felt when I hadn’t managed to engineer a single evangelism opportunity in the week between Sunday services. In spite of this, I was all in, surrounded by people who were similarly convinced. I was careful to do and say what I thought would please God, and I was constantly afraid of being ‘led astray’. I cringe now remembering how I viewed everyone I met outside of church as conversion fodder. I realise that I didn’t listen to those people because I was really interested in their lives, but because I hoped that opportunities might arise to shoehorn Jesus into the conversation – however clumsily.  As I write this, I realise that my church friends were my only friends. In spite of my evangelistic fervour, I had few meaningful relationships with anybody who wasn’t a Christian. I’m sure my conviction that we were the only ones with a valid worldview, and that everyone else was spiritually impoverished was no small hindrance when it came to forging genuine friendships with anyone ‘out there’. 

When we moved elsewhere, we found ourselves at another evangelical church, albeit one with a healthier outlook and a focus on missional communities. Once again, we got involved in church life. Over time, however, the wheels grew wobbly on my theological wagon, and a few years ago they fell off completely. I can’t pinpoint exactly what triggered it, but I wasn’t expecting it. All my life I had been told that we evangelicals had it right: the right doctrines, the right interpretation of the Bible, and the right way to behave. That certainty was what had carried me. Now, through podcasts, blogs and books, I was discovering that not only was it OK to pay attention to that niggling disquiet which dogged me on Sunday mornings, but that I wasn’t alone in feeling it. There were Christians who saw things differently. They didn’t seem afraid to ask what if? and why? They turned my world upside down, which was both shattering and liberating. 

As the dust of deconstruction has begun to settle, and my once unassailable certainty has diminished, so I have found that my openness to others and my willingness to learn from them has grown correspondingly. I no longer feel anxious about entertaining questions; instead, I feel curious. I am beginning to see how changes to my outlook are bringing new benefits. When my faith first began to shift, I started to grieve the opportunities for friendship and learning I had missed over the years because my convictions – and, I realise, fears – wouldn’t allow me to engage. This grief is slowly being healed by the new connections I am making as I unlearn old habits. Since I stopped seeing people as projects, I am seeing them as people. I have learned to appreciate them as beautifully made image-bearers of God. It occurs to me that being less certain means that maybe these days, I am able to perceive people with more Christlike eyes. I have learned that they are not spiritual vacuums. I have seen the beauty and truth in other faith traditions which I wish I had been able to find whilst I was at university, where RE was part of my degree. 

The ongoing impact of this still new, more expansive way of living is simultaneously unsettling and delightful. Loss of certainty has been uncomfortable, yes, but it has also freed me to explore and receive in many ways. This newfound freedom catches me unawares. I might be reading something, watching a film or chatting with a parent or child at work. I find myself fully entering into whatever I am doing, catching glimpses of the Kingdom of God in whatever or whoever it is I am encountering, and then marvelling at this flash of divine beauty I have witnessed, at this holy gift presented to me. I also find myself acknowledging that once, I would probably have thrown that gift  away. 

Looking back at the person I was in those photos, I have a difficult time reconciling who I was then with who I am now. If I had met future me back then, I would have been very concerned about my dodgy ideas! I am growing more comfortable with unanswered questions, with just not knowing.  There is a beautiful song by The Brilliance, called Give Me Doubt. The first line has become a sort of prayer for me of late: give me doubt, so I can see my neighbour as myself. This is so completely the opposite of what I would once have asked of God and yet it seems just the right kind of request now, so I shall keep on asking. I am looking forward to seeing where doubt leads me next. 

– Kim Eames

We felt these unprecedented times deserved an unprecedented episode of nomad. So for the first time we recorded a remote episode, with Jemimah beaming in from Cardiff, David from Birmingham, and Tim and Nick from Nottingham. 

To help stimulate the conversation, we thought we’d ask the Listener Lounge for questions. 

So tune in if you want to know how we’re coping with the pandemic, what signs of hope we’re seeing, whether we still believe in God, what prayer means to us, the most significant thing we’ve learnt from the nomad journey, the most cringe-worthy thing we’ve said during an interview, the funniest things our kids have said recently, and much much more!

Images used with permission.

BOOKS

Letters and Papers from Prison

The Challenge of Jesus

Your Brain on Porn

QUOTES

“I think there’s huge amounts of encouragement and comfort knowing that other people are asking similar questions and struggling with similar things and deconstructing things. But then also realizing that some people are doing that within church, some people are doing that post-church, some people are on the journey having never really gone to church. So, I think that commonality but also the diversity within that is both comforting and reassuring and interesting and creative.”

“Eleven years ago, I’d have told you very clearly who I thought God was. I’d have probably talked about the Trinity, and their different roles, and how I related to them, and that sort of stuff. But now, I don’t really think about God as a being that I can identify or define – it goes beyond all that. I feel like my experience of life is my experience of God. But I do still think that’s rooted in the Christian tradition, because I still find Jesus a really compelling figure who I find really inspiring. I just don’t attempt to define God anymore – it just kind of is life.”

“Every day when I pray, in a way I’m asking the same two questions: Why is there so much senseless loss; why so much pain? And then the other question is: Why do I get to be here? Everything is beautiful, everything’s wonderful. I get to be in another day. And those two ‘whys,’ I think they’re always there. I remember asking them as a child – why am I not a rock? Why do I get to be a conscious being? It’s amazing. But they’re not questions that are asked in search of answers. The questions are the answers. To be with the questions is to be with God in some way.” 

In this final meditation of the series, Anna reflects on the power of the greeting that Jesus gave his disciples when he met them in the upper room on Easter day. She considers what Pádraig Ó Tuama shares about this greeting in his book In The Shelter: Finding a home in the World. She then leads us in a stilling exercise followed by an Ignatian style meditation, using our imaginations to enter into the scene in the locked room as told in John and Luke’s gospels. Anna then finishes with a short examen and closing prayer.

David Blower responds to the meditation with original music and ambience.

If you want a meditation like this one each month, then visit either our PayPal or Patreon membership page.

Image used with permission.

BOOKS

In the Shelter: Finding a Home in the World

Celebration of Discipline: The Path to Spiritual Growth

In this meditation Anna Robinson reflects on our struggles with fear, anxiety and distress. She looks at how Jesus himself felt great fear, particularly at this time of Easter. Then, drawing on the wisdom of James Finley, Anna leads us through a stilling exercise and meditation where we can bring our deepest fears and distress to Jesus. Through this we hope together we can find freedom from our experience of the tyranny of fear.

David Blower compliments the meditation with original music and ambience.

If you want a meditation like this one each month, then visit either our PayPal or Patreon membership page.

Image used with permission.

BOOK

The Road Less Travelled: A New Psychology of Love, Traditional Values and Spiritual Growth

WEBSITE

James Finley – Sink Into the Taproot of Your Heart 

I feel like my story is very boring. I went to a kid’s club outreach by a local Baptist Church. I grew with them and decided to take my faith seriously when I was a teenager. I left school and spent about 3 years working with a missions organisation overseas and in the UK.

I went to university, began work as a teacher, moved to London, met my husband, had our children and here I am. I am happy, sometimes quite funny (although my teenager might deny this), busy and occasionally creative.

This is what it looks like on paper and to those who know me. I am very content and grateful for everything I have.

While no more or less bereaved than most people my age, this story maps a few deaths that, in their own ways, shaped me.

Image used with permission.

As a teenager I was bullied – much like many teenagers were. One incident took place on a school bus that went from the town to the villages. A boy on the bus thought it would be funny to stop me getting off the bus in my village and keep me on until the next village. I couldn’t be late home and I decided to fight my way off the bus. With the help of my unkempt fingernails I made it off just in time. The next day, the boy came up to me at school and accused me of scratching him. He told me that if I was ever on the same bus as him again, he would make sure I never got off.

For months, I would hang back and make sure he got on a bus first so I could decide to get on a different bus.

One evening, this boy was trying to get high by inhaling the fumes from an aerosol can. He died.  He was fourteen. Our school went into shock. He had been popular. I felt sad because I knew that it was sad  My life would go on and his would not. There were 600 kids from my school at his funeral. I was not one of them. At the age of 14 I knew I was not going to pretend to be someone I was not.  I learned that I couldn’t claim to be the friend of someone that had caused me anxiety but at the same time I did not need to wish them ill or glory in their death. I struggled with the sense of relief I felt at his absence though and never shared that with anyone.

There was a man I had hoped I would marry.  We were together in a long-distance capacity for a couple of years and had decided to finally meet again for a make-or-break trip together. A month before we were to meet up, he took his own life quite violently.

I worked really hard to make Romans 8:28 fit this particular situation but I was fooling myself and everyone else.  Accepting this and not trying to find any holy meaning behind it was very liberating.  My experience of Christianity so far had everything wrapped up into neat little ‘God’s will’ packages and this did not fit any of them.  And I learned that this was okay.

My dad died about 8 years later. It happened fast – he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and told he had months to live but he spent those months just dying.  He had never fitted into the evangelical mould that I had adopted and watching him die made me rethink what I believed. I knew he had sincerely searched for God, for meaning in life. He hadn’t found it in the ‘evangelical’ way – did this condemn him to hell?  I increasingly began to think not. I wrote him a letter to tell him about all the times he had made me happy. We had not been particularly close but he had been a good dad. This was a cathartic activity for me. I never regretted telling him how much I loved him. No one deserves to die without knowing how much they are loved.

Between the births of my two children were the two I never got a chance to meet. They lived briefly inside me and were clothed in hope. This was the death of my hope, the plans I had for my family and the shape I wanted it to take. This was such a private grief as the friends around me grew their families and I wanted to be happy for them.  Every morning I go into my little garden where there, among clutter are two pots, each planted with a tree to remember them.  The world is cluttered with private grief and unfulfilled hopes.  Mine might look like they are brushed neatly under a rug – I want to be mindful that so do those of many others.

My mum died the day before my family and I were due to go to Greenbelt. We still went. It was a surreal experience walking around this festival where everyone was mixing happily – oblivious to the fact my mum had just died. I remember sitting watching the band ‘Why.’ They sang ‘Old Time Religion’ – a song my parents used to sing together. I dropped my phone on the ground just at that moment. It smashed and I started to cry. My husband put his arm around me and said, “It’s ok, you can get the screen fixed.” I was sobbing too much to explain the real reason for my tears. But the powerful surge of memories at that moment was a gift to me. Now, when I see a sad person in a happy place, I tell myself, “Maybe their mum just died.” 

As a teacher, I now work in a service that provides education for children in hospital and those ill at home. Most of my students do recover. But I have the privilege of drawing alongside families who fear and face the worst. Every day, especially in these strange times, I am acutely aware of the anxiety the parents of these children must be going through.

At work I get the chance to bring a bit of joy, normality and distraction into the lives of children who otherwise get poked and prodded, who feel pain and fear. I get to tell their parents, “Take a break, have a cuppa, have a moment.” Or I get to just sit and let them sound off at me about everything they are going through.

I love life  I love life more for the moments I have shared in death. Knowing that agonising separation cannot be brushed away with a platitude. Grateful for the warmth and support of those who have drawn alongside me and pulled me powerfully through to the next stage. I want to be that for others too.

I love life.

– Ailsa Betts

In this contemplation, Anna Robinson considers the significance of acknowledging how we are feeling in these uncertain and unsettling times. She considers the importance of kindness and compassion to others and ourselves, recognising our shared human experiences. Anna then leads us into a stilling exercise to help us become fully present, after which she guides us a Loving-Kindness meditation that fosters feelings of compassion and kindness and enables us to feel more connected to those we love and those around us during this time of isolation. 

David Blower compliments the meditation with original music and ambience.

If you want a meditation like this one each month, then visit either our PayPal or Patreon membership page.

Image used with permission.

WEBSITE

The Centre for Nonviolent Communication

Dr. Kristin Neff – Self Compassion

Rather than an interview based episode, we felt these strange times required something a little more meditative. 

Each month for the last year Anna Robinson has been producing some wonderful meditations for our patrons. So we asked her to produce a short series for our main podcast feed, called Meditations for Isolation

In this meditation, Anna reminds us we are not alone in finding ourselves weighed down by worry and concerns. Anna will lead us in contemplating divine presence and peace. We will then be led on an imaginative journey where we are invited to acknowledge our fears and concerns and give them to God. We will then be invited to rest in this peace and presence and receive what it is we need at this time.  

David Blower compliments the meditation with original music.

If you want a meditation like this one each month, then visit either our PayPal or Patreon membership page.


BOOK

Consenting to God as God Is

I grew up in a Christian family. My childhood and early teens experience of the church was of a Pentecostal church until I was 12 and then a small brethren chapel ran by my uncle. Both of these churches were evangelical, they were led by men and believed that women’s role was to be caregivers and homemakers. The awkwardness in both these churches was that my family didn’t neatly fit. My mum had Bipolar and a lot of the time she was unable to care for us. My Dad was a policeman and juggled a stressful job with looking after the home, his wife and two young daughters. From a young age I realised that men were caring, loving, and perfectly capable of running a home. The other challenge for both these churches was they believed my mum’s Bi-Polar was either due to demon-possession (Pentecostal church) or as a result of her sin (both churches) and that she wasn’t healed due to her lack of faith. As a child and young teen, I believed that I needed to pray for mum’s healing every night, and when she became ill again I thought this was due to me not praying enough. 

Image used with permission.

At 17 I went along to a friend’s church called St Matthews in Bath, which was Church of England. The first service I went to, the vicar’s wife was preaching about Christian feminism. She was an artist with dyed hair talking about women in leadership, she discussed how Jesus was radical in the way he treated women with respect, she also challenged the patriarchal sexist church environment. I felt so excited and stunned to hear this. Over the weeks and months of attending the church, I realised the church was full of artists, poets, writers, philosophers, musicians, teachers and social workers. The firm belief was that we all had unique skills and gifts from God and we needed to figure out what they were and get on and use them. Nobody was concerned about your age or gender being a hindrance, the expectation was that you would get on and use your skills in the world. Another view of the church was that the idea of certain jobs being more important (e.g. the preacher or missionary) was total rubbish. All skills and gifts were unique. The underlying theology of the church was a Reformation theology characterised by a belief that the whole of life belongs to God. What this meant in practice was we didn’t have to only do ‘God’ things, ‘God art”, sing ‘God songs’, write about God. God was interested in how we teach, how we sweep the roads, how we make a pot, how we figure science theories, how we are fully creative.

I look back and I am so grateful for this experience at St Matthew’s. I met my husband Iain there, and made many wonderful friends, most of whom we are still in contact with. Of course, there were difficulties along the way in the church, not everything was brilliant. However, the experience at St Matt’s showed me that God was interested in me as a woman, that I have a voice, I am beautifully and wonderfully made and my skills are God-given and I need to nurture them and help them to flourish. It also helped me to understand that my mum’s Bipolar had nothing to do with demons, sin, or lack of faith.

Because creativity and questioning and try things out were big emphases at St Matthews, a few of us wanted to experiment with how we ran services. With the vicar’s blessing, in 1998 Iain and I and two friends started an alternative worship service called Sanctuary  We were interested in stripping back church services, as we felt the common model of worship, preach and prayer didn’t work. We started with a monthly worship service. We wanted to challenge the idea that worship was singing led by a band/worship leader. We wanted to create a worship space that invited reflection, participation, thinking and questioning. Space where people could be curious, engage and discover, rather than space where people were told what to think. Initially the four of us coordinated and curated the services. Three of the team were artists (I was the one who was not!). The services were very experimental and creative but they were always participative, this was key, enabling everyone attending to actively take part. Over time Sanctuary grew to around 40 people of all ages. After a few years others became regularly involved in curating and planning services. We tried to set it up in a way that encouraged and enabled anyone in Sanctuary to be involved in curating and planning the service if they wanted. The other key part to Sanctuary was that it was all age. I strongly felt that church should be a community/family and I wanted children to be fully part of the community. The way we managed this was to mostly have stations in the services, spaces where there were things to do, things to think about. We would organise these so they were layered, like a good Pixar film, things that worked across the ages and abilities. Over time (we ran for 16 years ) Sanctuary services increasingly explored more contemplative spaces in the services and contemplative practice became an increasingly key part of mine and Iain’s practice.

Sanctuary closed around 5 years ago. It came to a natural end. This felt like the right decision. Contemplative practice has became my main way of connecting with God. Along with this I felt increasingly drawn to experiencing God through nature. Two years ago a friend started a forest church, which we supported. She moved away and we ended up curating and coordinating this. It’s a stripped-back experience of church, it is loosely planned, with a simple participative, spacious invitation to try something, for example making prayer out of the things we find in the woods. It is about community, experiencing God whilst being in the woods, sharing food, having a fire, playing, talking, being creative, having times of silence.  It’s a small group, mostly families, a number of the children are on the autistic spectrum and find being inside hard.

I have learned over the last few years that the sensory experiences of being outside are where I encounter God the most. There are certain experiences where I have a deep sense of God, some of these are whilst barefoot walking, being in the woods and cold water swimming. This winter Iain and I have kept up a practice of wild swimming without wet suits. There is something about the shock of the cold that forces you to be totally in the moment, totally aware of how you feel and what is around you. For me, that is where I meet God. 

– Sonia Mainstone-Cotton

For just a few weeks we’ve all been living in a very different world. Sociologist and Baptist Minister Sally Mann reflects on how her community in London’s East End are adapting to the coronavirus pandemic, and where she sees glimmers of hope amidst the grief and isolation.

Imaged used with permission.

WEBSITE

Bonny Downs Community Association

BOOKS

Looking for Lydia: Encounters that Shape the Church

QUOTES

“It sounds like crisis, but also good news. And I think that’s what I’m experiencing. You know, real adversity but unlikely heroes just being the key to get this whole thing moving. And for me it’s an example of ‘soft power’ in our community. So, we are very used to harnessing the skills of people that may be overlooked in terms of offering solutions – I call that ‘soft power’ as a sociologist. It’s often those people at the grassroots, when they’re able to contribute and not just seen as people who need care, that we see the wheels turning again.”

“I’m kind of hoping and thinking that maybe some of the more helpful social policies which reinstate a sense of community – a sense that we need to care for the vulnerable – might happen at the end of this crisis.”

Mike McHargue is the host of the podcast Ask Science Mike, co-founded of the The Liturgists Podcast and author of Finding God in the Waves. He’s a public educator who weaves together insights from science and faith to help people figure out what it means to live well.

We ask Mike the question that scientists, philosophers, theologians and self-help gurus have wrestled with for thousands of years: why do we do the things we do? Or rather, why so often do we not do the things that we want to do?! Why, for example, do we binge Netflix when we know taking a walk outside would be better for us, or why do we scroll Facebook when our real friends live just down the street. Drawing on science, personal revelation, and spiritual insight, Mike shows us how to live more at peace with ourselves and the world around us.

After the interview Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Nick Thorley reflect on how Mike’s ideas might shape their evolving faith.

Interview starts at 16m 47s. 

Image used with permission.

BOOKS

You’re a Miracle (and a Pain in the Ass): Understanding the Hidden Forces That Make You You

Finding God in the Waves: How I lost My Faith and Found it Again Through Science

WEBSITES

Ask Science Mike

The Liturgists

QUOTES

“Unfortunately I don’t think – until very recently – my faith was a positive influence on my mental health. The version of Christianity I grew up in is exactly what trained me to be co-dependent, it is what trained me to avoid my feelings, it is what trained me to participate in more toxic forms of masculinity, and is something I’ve spent a lifetime trying to unlearn and unprogram.”

“I don’t have any sophisticated answers to faith questions. I simply love and experience God, and that experience makes me feel whole in a way that I can’t articulate to people. But when I’ve tried to get away from it because of frustrations about philosophy or epistemology or these really multi-syllable terms, somehow God always finds their way back into my life.”

I threw my Bible away recently. Actually, I threw away six, in three different languages. That’s what a good missionary I used to be. The only ones I kept were the beautiful gold-edged King James version I was given for my christening and the Russian one given to me by a woman whose house I stayed in for a while, shortly after the end of the Soviet Union. It is worn and the marker ribbon is transparent from use, but she’d kept it through years of pressured faith and I couldn’t part with it. But I threw away the others, including the one which was marked up and underlined and colour-coded and annotated and highlighted and everything else you can possibly do to a book. It was crammed with so many notes on loose pieces of paper that a friend once referred to it as the New Exploding Version. And I remember clearly when I bought it and sat in the garden doing a spot of colour coding as the thought went through my head, “Do I really have to do this for the rest of my life? Can’t I ever just arrive?” Of course, I banished the thought immediately, apologised to God and berated myself at length.

Image used with permission.

What strikes me now is the sense of striving that went with all of that – the unease that I would never be good enough, never know enough, never do enough, never keep the rules enough. No wonder I burned out and spent three years with M.E., having spent the previous three years living – sorry, ‘serving’ – in a community thousands of miles from home, with serious issues of poverty, domestic abuse, gang violence, endemic HIV, TB and alcohol and drug abuse, in a culture very different from my own, functioning in a language I hadn’t spoken a word of when I arrived. I often wonder now if I was in the wrong place, despite feeling at the time that I had clearly heard God tell me to go. I’m still not convinced I was wrong, but the way I went about it was problematic. If anyone had suggested a need for some kind of theology of suffering, or of rest, I’m not sure I could have taken those on board at any more than a theoretical level. Either way, I continued to work for mission agencies and/ or a tangled web of mission, law and politics for another 16 years, coming close to burnout a couple more times.

Perhaps part of it was a need for approval. Perhaps it was my inability to fit my blurry-lined, shades-of-grey thinking into a black and white theology (“But why is that a sin?”). Or perhaps it was a genuine sense of anger at injustice and poverty and exploitation. 

There are things I’m still angry about, still make me want to throw something (or someone). I am angry with those who controlled, manipulated and shamed others in the name of God: I remember the public shaming of a friend whose sexuality was forcibly outed. I had trained as a professional dancer, and yet was made to feel ashamed of my (very covered up) female body, lest I cause the poor men to stumble. That body – that ability to move – gave up when I became ill. I was told I had a ‘spirit of rebellion’ (it’s always a ‘spirit’, isn’t it?) because I questioned my leadership and failed to even notice hierarchies, and that I would never find a husband (the ultimate goal) because I was too strong and independent. When I did get married, I went into it not having a clue about myself in relationship, taught only about a form of marriage which simply doesn’t apply to 21st Century UK, yet feminist enough to have solemnly promised my beloved that I would never, ever do his ironing (so far, so good). I am angry with myself, at times, for taking so long to see through the bullshit that had nothing to do with God and for spending decades feeling like a universe trapped in a matchbox.

And yet… how much better off would I have been outside the Church? Aren’t there also unhealthy relationships and warped views of sex; controlling people; chronic striving; sexism; othering and, in this age of identity politics, the terror of breaking the rules of this new sort of purity culture? Maybe not so much justifying it by taking God’s name in vain…

I notice the two Bibles I kept have something in common: I kept them because of the people who gave them to me. And the reason I still don’t think I was in the wrong place was the people who gave to me: those who loved me in deeply sacrificial ways, who exposed me to the richness of other cultures, who sent me to bed when I wasn’t well, who noticed and stood up for women when they were being overlooked or ignored, who introduced me to feminist theology, who I can still turn to. Also the group of friends who went after the man who attacked me, and beat him to a pulp. Don’t we all need those kinds of friends from time to time?

I threw the Bibles away because I needed a fresh start. I needed not to be reminded of the angst every time I looked at them, or to cringe at the certainties I once flung at others. For a long time now, I’ve felt like a snake sloughing off its old, dry, itchy skin. The new skin is sensitive, but it feels fresher, healthier, a relief. There are times when my faith seems like Schrödinger’s cat – can it be alive and dead at the same time? I know there are those who would say it is stone dead: I’ve had the slippery slope, all heart and no head (that one had more than a hint of misogyny about it), woolly liberal, heretic discussions, and I probably would have said the same once upon a time. But I’m not so sure I like the binary nature of that cat any more than the binary nature of the rules, the judgements, the othering. Maybe it’s a whole different kind of cat.

A few years ago, I began to wonder what happened to that dancer, so I re-trained as an actor. These days I’m learning to let go, to love uncertainty. I listen to Russian Orthodox music rather than worship bands and read more Mary Oliver than scripture. The first lines of her Wild Geese

You do not have to be good.

You do not have to walk on your knees

for a hundred miles through the desert repenting.

You only have to let the soft animal of your body

love what it loves.

…blend into the last lines of The Summer Day:

I don’t know exactly what a prayer is.

I do know how to pay attention, how to fall down

into the grass, how to kneel down in the grass,

how to be idle and blessed, how to stroll through the fields,

which is what I have been doing all day.

Tell me, what else should I have done?

Doesn’t everything die at last, and too soon?

Tell me, what is it you plan to do

with your one wild and precious life?

Does anyone know of a good, modern Bible translation?

– Olivia Jackson

In another break from our usual interview format, we listen in on a conversation between Jemimah and Joy as they reflect on their experiences as women who grew up immersed in evangelical Christianity. Unpicking some of the messages they absorbed over the years, they examine what it means for them to move away from repression and reconnect with their embodied and internal experiencing. Learning to value their own voice, they also explore the responsibility that comes with agency and privilege within their respective communities.

Conversation starts at 4m 30s.

Images used with permission.

QUOTES

“The message I grew up with seemed to be having strong opinions was not ‘submitting’ in the way that we should be. I think it undermines confidence in listening to yourself, in valuing how you respond to something. If you’re troubled by something and yet told that actually this is how it is – and the leaders and the men or whoever is creating it have done it like that – and you feel a bit troubled with it, it turns the issue around onto yourself. You become the issue, rather than actually maybe I have something to offer here that could help. And maybe actually I should be valuing how I’m responding.”

“What happened in that story that I described didn’t feel like I was finally able to be a ‘true woman’; it just felt like I was able to be who I was created to be – a human. And I feel like the things we’ve been describing – systems that suppress certain aspects of our humanity – is applicable to everyone regardless of gender.”

I don’t see myself as particularly special.  I have not been involved in any conspicuously important or miraculous events.  My faith journey has been a gradual one, without significant drama.  Yet in many ways I know I am not your average early-50s white Anglo-Saxon ‘Protestant’ (more or less) cisgender heterosexual bloke who works with computers.

Image used with permission

For starters, I was a missionary kid for the first 12 ½ years of my life, after which I was a pastor’s kid here in Australia until I finished high school.  Six months later I went back overseas for a 2 year ‘short-term’ mission program, most of which was spent in Cairo, Egypt, where I became moderately proficient in Arabic.  But that was way back at the end of the 1980s, almost a lifetime ago.

My ‘MK’ (or to use the more general term, ‘TCK’ – Third Culture Kid) experience was not bad for the most part, I got to travel a lot (my parents had supporters in both Australia and the U.S.A.), I made some great friends at boarding school, I had a much more interesting culinary upbringing than the vast majority of other “Western” kids of my generation. In comparison, my high school experience in Australia was far worse, the saving grace being a strong and supportive youth group at our non-denominational ‘community’ church.  But my mostly positive childhood overseas, combined with the outlook I inherited from my parents that mission is the pinnacle of Christian service, resulted in that being the course I always expected to take as an adult.

By the end of high school, however, there were already a few flies in the ointment of that plan.  Firstly, my personality: it turns out that I’m the kind of person that questions everything I am told, no matter the authority, and I prefer to find my own way instead of following the well-trod path.  And though the latter is a metaphor for my in-built approach to life, it is also quite literal – on the many walks in forests and parks my family went on while I was growing up, I would invariably be the one bashing through the trees or scrub or field or whatever, 5 or 10 metres to the left or right of the path everyone else was using.

A second thing was an experience that has had a fundamental and profound impact on my life in every way.  Not long before my 16th birthday I was going through a period of angst about a girl who had broken up with me, exacerbating my deeper teenage struggles of feeling unlovable and insignificant.  One day I was with a friend from church and I was pouring out all my sadness and pain, and he stopped me and said, “Let me pray for you.”  I don’t remember a word of his prayer, but while I was sitting there with my eyes closed, out of ‘nowhere’ I was enveloped by an overwhelming assurance of the reality of God’s love, for me, that very literally changed my life, and has never left me. Little did I know that the deep and unshakeable certainty of God’s perfect and unconditional love that was planted in my soul in that moment would eventually upend almost all the Christian doctrines I had been taught growing up.

Perhaps the first significant step in that journey of disrupting my childhood faith was something said by an Indian man during a conference at the beginning of the afore-mentioned short-term mission program. While acknowledging the benefits that foreign missionaries can bring, he said that it is actually the Western church that needs the non-Western church far more than the other way around, to help return them to the perspective of the ‘underside’ of power where the Christian faith began.  That simple yet profound assertion changed my perspective on mission in an instant, and though I completed the two year program successfully (whatever that means) and for a long time afterwards still held onto the goal of returning to overseas Christian service, the vitally important goal I had always been taught, to ‘save the nations’, was irreversibly spoiled.

It was in my 20s, though, that I really started questioning the belief system that had been instilled in me. The major problem I encountered was both personal and communal.  I grew increasingly frustrated by my inability to change, in particular to stop doing the things I “knew” I shouldn’t do.  But in church I saw the same thing all around me, people who may have gone through rapid personal growth just after their ‘conversion’ but then stayed pretty much the same for the next 40 or 50 or however many years until they died. I realised that the ‘Christianity’ that I knew was essentially impotent when it came to real and deep change towards maturity. All it offered was ‘more stuff to do’, the ‘path of discipleship’ synonymous with spending more and more time in ‘Christian service’, the pinnacle of which was to be a pastor, or even better a missionary.  But with few exceptions the elders and pastors and missionaries I knew were no more mature at a character level than most of the other people at church.

A large part of the problem, of course, is the belief that all that really matters is getting to heaven when you die, so once you’ve got that ticket there’s not much else to do except hang around and don’t ‘backslide’. But another significant issue is that the only model for change in that system is a sense of guilt (heartily amplified by many church ‘leaders’) and your own willpower. Neither of those things worked for me, or most others I observed, and they didn’t seem right either, being too moralistic and focussed on human effort, and far far too conducive to pretending that you’ve got your life sorted out when you’re around other Christians. If that’s all that was on offer, I really didn’t want to be a part of it.

But yet, I knew my experience of God’s love was real, and continued to be foundational for my life, so I couldn’t abandon everything. I found some wonderful companions to help me along the journey, in the books and authors that challenged and fed me: C.S. Lewis, George Macdonald, G. K. Chesterton and Teilhard de Chardin; smatterings of Eugene Peterson, Philip Yancey and N. T. Wright.  A significant book for me early on was Brennan Manning’s “The Ragamuffin Gospel”. Through it all, my experience and certainty of the unfailing love of God (much reassured and strengthened by Macdonald I must say) has anchored me and given me the freedom to explore and ‘play’ without fear of punishment or retribution.

In the mid-2000s, exploring the new and exciting realm that was the blogosphere, I discovered that there were others like me who were questioning the theologies and doctrines once considered as bedrock fundamentals of Christian faith. One of these bloggers introduced me to the thought and writings of Rene Girard, and soon after that I discovered the great Catholic theologian James Alison.  It is the Girardian analysis of human culture and religion, profoundly worked out in Alison’s books, that I have found to be the most consistent and satisfying framework for understanding the Biblical story and God’s incredible plan to make us one in the freedom of forgiveness and self-giving love, but also and crucially for bringing about true, deep and lasting change to Christlike maturity in community.

There is one further aspect of my journey that I want to mention: since the age of 21, the soundtrack of my life has been the music of Canadian singer/songwriter/master guitarist Bruce Cockburn. His songs cover the full range of life experience, from faith and spirituality to love, politics, economics, justice and environmental concerns, and I wouldn’t want to imagine life without the companionship and beauty of his music and lyrics. One song in particular expresses and has informed my outlook and perspective, the wonder and gift of life and of each other:

Life Will Open

Waves can’t break without rocks that dissolve into sand
We can’t dance without seasons upon which to stand
Eden is a state of rhythm like the sea
Is a timeless change

Turn your eyes to the world where we all sit and dream
Busy dreaming ourselves and each other into being
Dreaming is a state of death, can’t you see?
We must live through who we are

If we can sing with the wind song
Chant with thunder
Play upon the lightning
Melodies of wonder
Into wonder life will open

We are children of the river we have named “existence”
Undercurrent and surface pass in the same tense
Nothing is confined except what’s in your mind
Every footstep must be true

If we can sing with the wind song
Chant with thunder
Play upon the lightning
Melodies of wonder
Into wonder life will open

(Lyrics by Bruce Cockburn, Copyright 1971, used by permission.)

–  David Roberts 

In this episode we speak with anabaptist, anarchist and Christian animist, Noel Moules. Christian and animism are perhaps two words you haven’t heard together before, in fact you may well think that animism sounds somewhat dodgy! Noel shows us though how Jesus himself held to this ancient indigenous worldview, where rather than matter and spirit being understood as dualistic opposites, the entire natural world is sentient, personable and alive. 

So we ask Noel how this revelation has changed the way he understands and relates to God. And how he loves his neighbour now his neighbour includes everything from birds to trees?!

After the interview Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Nick Thorley reflect on how animism might shape their own evolving faith.

Interview starts at 15m 16s

Images used with permission.

BOOKS

Fingerprints of Fire, Footprints of Peace

Christian Animism

When God Was a Bird

The Hebrew Bible and Environmental Ethics 

WEBSITE

Christian Animism

Workshop

QUOTES

 “Everything is alive, everything is sacred, everything is connected, everything is person, everything is nurtured, and everything is respected.”

“Personhood is an understanding which is above all things. And so human personhood, bird personhood, animal personhood, rock personhood is found as different expressions of personhood under the overarching sense of personhood. I find that really exciting and helpful.”

“The dominion that God has given us is that we are to image God in how we live our lives in the world. And when we do that, yes, we have this amazing capacity to have a huge effect. But that should be for blessing. And also, are we open for the huge effect that the rest of creation is to have on us? That to me is really, really important as well. And that’s why I find the word ‘stewardship’ difficult. I like companionship better.”

The garbled prayer call was barely recognizable in the din of the midweek market crowd. Four years earlier, I would have stopped and marveled at the droning of the “Allahu Akbar,” but now it was just background noise. I pushed an umbrella stroller in front of me, my son lulled to sleep by the motion and white noise. I was happy to be out of the house. I savored the smell of grilled onions and peppers. I watched a young covered woman guide her young child through the maze of people. Our lives were more similar than not. I smiled widely at the colorful stalls of fresh vegetables. I may have stared too long in the direction of one vendor. “Buyurun, efendim,” he called, “Come on in.” Little did he know that, right there in that crowded back street of Istanbul, I was having an existential crisis.

Image used with permission.

I had grown up in a loving but very religious home, the daughter of a Baptist pastor. I learned that to thrive, I must follow all the rules and please those in authority. I read my Bible every morning, went on summer mission trips, earned straight A’s in school, and developed an addiction to my parents’ and teachers’ approval. My external life was managed, but my self-esteem suffered, and I became so disconnected from my own internal compass that I could not smell danger right under my nose.

I moved straight from my dorm room at California Baptist College to the inner city of East Los Angeles, to “do the Lord’s work.” There I met my first husband, a young man who came from parents who were in street gangs, his father in prison for murder. My new boyfriend had struggled with drug addiction and had been arrested for violence just a year before, but Jesus had “saved” him since then, so who was I to doubt the Lord’s transformative power? 

A year into our marriage, we applied to be missionaries. We arrived in Turkey in March of 2002, bright eyed and full of dreams. We ran a small artist’s studio in the center of town and regularly socialized late into the night. There were signs of aggression here and there, but as long as I lived to serve my husband, all went smoothly.  Then I got pregnant.

I was extremely ill all through my first pregnancy. Suddenly, I could no longer use all my energy to care for my husband. I needed to care for myself and my growing baby. My husband resented this change and dealt with his disappointment through violence, frequently describing how he would torture and kill me.

About the same time, someone gave me a copy of Brian McLaren’s “A New Kind of Christian.” I reveled in the character’s ability to question how things had “always been.” When the leaders of our missionary organization found out, they forbid me to read the book. This was the beginning of a long list of things they caboshed – including attending the Turkish church. The only church they recognized as legitimate was the southern Baptist church (founded by American missionaries). When I gained the courage to reach out about the abuse in my marriage, I was told to have “grace” on my husband and to “be a Godly example.”

After three years in Turkey, our missionary organization asked us to resign based on “insubordination.” We decided to stay in Turkey but had to move to a poorer area of town. We lived on the fifth floor with no elevator. By this time, our first child was two and I was pregnant with our second. Life was difficult, but no longer being a “professional Christian” was freeing. I could think for myself.

That day in the midweek bazaar, I looked around and thought, “These people are doing their best, caring for their families, just like me. Yet, if what I believe about God is true, 99.9% of these people are doomed to eternal conscious torment!” This made me sad. I thought, “Eternal torture for one lifetime of ignorance does not seem just at all. I certainly would not condemn them. How could I be more gracious than God?” In that moment, I decided that either I could continue believing in this monster of a God and NOT worship him, or I could change my belief about God.  I decided to believe in a good God. This did not please my Christian tribe.

Soon after that day, my husband nearly suffocated me, and I arranged with my parents to fly home to California. My husband followed. I had no other means of supporting myself, and I had been taught that divorce was never an option. The next several years were a nightmare, a hell on earth. I lost faith in God – at least the one I had inherited.

This, however, freed me up to try on beliefs and practices I never would have allowed myself before. I began practicing mindfulness and self-compassion. I experimented with believing that I was innately lovable, and the fruit was so good, I never looked back. Previously, I decided to believe God was good. Now I was experiencing God as good. I began to grow in stability, health, and clarity, until one day I saw clearly that I needed to care for myself and my children by leaving my marriage.

Without constant abuse, my healing grew exponentially. Unfortunately, my first husband fell deeper into the trance of self-loathing. One year after I left, he took his own life. I was thrown into deep grief, but by this time I had the tools to offer my pain compassionate witness

Eventually, as I grew in self-love, I connected with Brian, a man full of kindness who values both me and himself. We have been very happily married for eight years and enjoy our six kids and two grandkids. One of our favorite activities together is listening to and discussing Nomad episodes. I now work as a mindbody coach for women, helping them heal from trauma (often religious) and (re)connect to their own inner compass. My husband is my greatest supporter and ally. I am now in heaven on earth.

I used to try to argue with and convince my religious friends that God is good, and we are innately lovable, yet this fell on deaf ears. Now, I give my attention to those who are already questioning their conditioning. I let them know that they are not crazy, and that there is life on the other side of reconstruction. God is Love, and when we are still enough, we can see the sacred in everything ordinary. 

– Christine Dixon

For more from Christine, check out The Ordinary Sacred

Ann Morisy is a community theologian, community worker and author who has researched and written on everything from the spirituality of public transport, through to the spirituality of ageing. Her works draws on a wide range of research and influences, including sociology, political science, economics and theology. 

We ask Ann whether in these increasingly troubled times, her community work and research are leading her to hope, what can get in the way of our discovery of hope, and what a genuinely hopeful Church looks like? 

After the interview Nomad hosts Tim Nash and David Blower reflect on how Anne’s understanding of hope might shape their own evolving faith.

Interview starts at 17m 2s.

Image used with permission.

BOOKS

Bothered and Bewildered: Enacting Hope in Troubled Times

Beyond the Good Samaritan: Community Ministry and Mission

Journeying Out: A New Approach to Christian Mission

QUOTES

“I’m of a generation that grew up with the presumption that it was normal for things to get better. And yet I think we’ve possibly got the first generation who are perceiving that their future will be less good than it has been for people in the past. That’s actually something that is really important to me about how generations provide for each other. Because if we unhitch a commitment to future generations simply by being preoccupied with the now and our own needs and desires, then that really is a measure of just how messed up the species is.” 

“I think a healthy religious environment can only ever be temporary; that decay is part of the story of existence. So, what is healthy will always decay, which is why accountability is so important.”

“I’m late to come to joy as being a powerful, transformational phenomenon. Joy is something quite profound. And you can’t guarantee it, it is not to be managed – cause if it’s been managed and manipulated, it’s something less than joy. And that joy really can only come from encounters with others. Joy is not a solitary thing. Something might come close with solitude. But joy, I think, is a relational phenomenon. And I think that our churches at their best are places which can multiply joy because of the acceptance of everybody’s contribution.”

As a child growing up in a very conservative evangelical church, we sang with gusto “It only takes a spark”. We were the sparks, and we were to spread God’s love by passing it on to everyone we met. It was a happy kind of love. The fire it started would be warm and glowing and people would, of course, gather round to experience it. Our church was good. We were right. How could this spark ever go out?

Image used with permission.

Fire is good.  

I loved the open fireplace with my grandparents, where my dad would blow gently on the embers to get the fire roaring, while we learned to play cards with my pa. But not on Sundays. Nana said cards were banned on Sundays which didn’t really make sense but it must have been in the bible somewhere – I just didn’t know where. 

Fire is confusing. 

As a teen, I remember my first personal connection to a bushfire, sitting in an irrigation paddock with sprinklers overhead while fire came from over the hills. Friends lost homes and livestock. 

Fire is bad. 

In my late teens and early 20s,  we used to make bonfires on the beach  and contemplate life over marshmallows, watching as sparks mingled with stars while silly jokes mingled with hopes and dreams. 

Fire is good. 

As I grew older,  we sang of the refiners fire. A fire that would make us pure and holy – “set apart for you Lord”. This fire was one which would bring growth and make us better than we were. 

I was “on fire for God” as I set off for the mission field. On fire for God was like a badge of holiness, and songs of fire were my spiritual soundtrack – Set my heart ablaze; Let The Flame Burn Brighter; We’ll Walk the Land, with hearts on fire; Shine Jesus Shine – blaze, spirit blaze. 

Fire is good. 

Somewhere along the way, amidst the monotony of life,  that fire grew dim, and the spark from my childhood was barely an ember. 

I was burned out by the endless church events in my life – the deacons meetings, worship leading, Sunday school teaching, home group leading. The petty squabbles and major conflicts. The hurt caused and received. 

I was burned out by life in general. Children. A home. Work. Family responsibilities. 

Fire is bad. 

A couple of years ago, I was standing in my church singing “All I once held dear”. I knew that the lyrics were supposed to be about leaving a worldly life behind but at that moment, I had a physical sensation that somewhere deep inside the spark of my faith had quite literally died. I actually felt it. The fire had gone out. 

There was no god. There was no faith. And Everything I once held dear was gone. 

Bridges had been burned. 

Fire is bad.

As I write this, the air quality in my area is registering at “hazardous to health.” My state and my country is burning. Over 6.3  million hectares of land in Australia has burned this fire season. That’s 1 1/2 times the size of Switzerland. More than 3 times the size of Wales. It’s hard to see more than a couple of kilometres down the road. The air smells so bad that even though it is a hot Summer day, I can’t hang any washing out because it will come in smelling of smoke. The wind which fans those flames is harsh and changes direction. These winds of change bring more destruction as they turn the long side of the fires into the front. People and animals try desperately to find shelter and a safe haven from the fire. This is not a warm, comforting fire. It is a horror. 

Fire is very bad. 

Where is God? Where is my faith? 

Everything so many once held dear is gone. Homes. Lives. Livelihoods. 

The Australian landscape regenerates after fire. Soon we will see new growth sprouting from the burnt trees and when the rain comes the green shoots will stand out in stark contrast to the blackened stumps. The scars of the fires will remain and the landscape will be forever changed. But there is hope for new growth. 

Scientists are suggesting that the regrowth after these fires will be slower. The effects of climate change are real and the bush has been more damaged this time. But there has to be hope. 

Fire is bad. Fire is also good?

My story with God has begun its regrowth too. In the last year I’ve left formal church entirely, spending more time reading and contemplating faith and God than ever before. Looking at the bible in a new way,  I’ve begun meeting with a very small group of like minded friends and discussing the questions of life and faith that were too hard to ask before.  I’ve engaged with Nomad Podcast and book club and thought more deeply about a range of theological issues once off limits to my mind. 

Fire is good? 

I’ve learned that unlike the black and white faith of my younger days, life, like fire, isn’t just good or bad, black or white. 

Fire is bad and good. 

And now, I’m  hoping for a new spark. A gentler, more contained spark. Gently warming a room and a meal. The charred coals of my faith burn in a new and different way and I’m learning to look for the little shoots of green amongst the blackness.

– Charmaine Clark

There’s a handful of guests that have appeared on Nomad a number of times, and Steve Chalke is one. Why? Because he keeps speaking and writing about really interesting things. He was one of the first high profile evangelicals to critique the penal substitutionary understanding of the cross, and to bless a same sex marriage. Not only that, but he founded and leads Oasis, one of the UK’s largest charities, whose volunteers, activists and professionals work in 36 communities across the country.

In this episode we speak to Steve about the Apostle Paul and why he has often been presented as the champion of exclusion, when, as Steve believes, he was in fact the great includer; a revolutionary who saw a new inclusive world dawning and gave his life to help bring it in.

After the interview Nomad hosts David Blower and Nick Thorley reflect on their own evolving faith and evolving relationship with the Apostle Paul.

Interview begins at 17m 49s

Image used with permission.

BOOKS

The Lost Message of Paul

The Lost Message of Jesus

WEBSITE

Oasis

QUOTES

“If pistis is ‘faithfulness’ rather than ‘faith,’ all of a sudden it’s not about me being able to intellectually ascent to everything all of the time without ever doubting – does God actually exist, did all those miracles happen, is there life the other side of death, am I a Christian? – it’s not about having faith that never doubts anything. It’s about living faithfully to a story. So, I’m relieved of the burden of thinking the right thoughts all the time or mustering the right level of saving faith. I’m just committed to live within this narrative, this story. Sometimes I find it easy, sometimes I find it hard, sometimes I’m doubting, sometimes I want to give up. But I’m living faithfully to this story, which I think’s a great release for people.”

“Paul never mentions Hell. Not once in all of his writing does he ever mention Hell. If he knew the word in terms of his Christian theology, he thought it was so unimportant that he didn’t bother to even make a note of it to any of the churches that he was writing to.”

It’s Christmas! And so we thought we’d share a festive Devotional episode with you all. Pub landlady, touring musician and anglican priest Em Kolltveit talks about community building and hospitality when there’s no room at the Inn.

We produce Devotionals like this every month. If you’re interested, you can access them by making a small monthly donation in $s on our Patreon page, or in £s on our PayPal membership page

Happy Christmas! 

Image used with permission.

PERMISSIONS

Veni Veni Emmanuelin Dulce Jubilo and In Dulce Jubilo from the album Of Kings and Angels are used with the permission of Mediaeval Baebes Ltd.

WEBSITE

Mediaeval Baebes

QUOTES

“The importance of our community buildings – our pubs, our churches, our cathedrals, our libraries – cannot be overstressed. When they’re gone, they’re gone for good. And when those buildings have disappeared and we’re cooped up in our shoebox offices and apartments – gorging on the algorithms that we are fed through social networking – I fear that the great hope of equality and justice for everyone, which I know many of us cling onto, will begin to fade. Why? Because every great revolution started in a tavern.”

“I really wonder how things are going to play out. I think, like many of us, who have at one time or another made the mistake of saying ‘no’ when we should have said ‘yes’ and met Jesus in that moment. I look to a future of justice where a global community cares for God’s planet and shares its bounty equally. And there are beds and hot meals for everyone at the inn. If Christmas is God’s conspiracy of love – as I believe it to be – if the birth, life and death of Christ is God’s plan to give us all the much needed time to reflect on what has been lost to us, then it is also about what can be found, what can be changed, and the kind of world we wish to live in. God’s world.”

The church I grew up in set the bar high for what I feel able to long for in community.  It was a tiny evangelical church in Trinidad and Tobago and one of a group of churches Canadian missionaries founded across the Caribbean region. My sense of God was grounded by expressions of togetherness that told me from an early age that I was loved and supported. From midweek prayer meetings to seasonal celebrations to youth camps, I felt held. I’ll always be grateful for that. 

Image used with permission.

Certainty of faith acted as a glue for that community as I think it does for many evangelical churches. When you’re in it, you feel secure and your life has an immense sense of purpose. On the flip side, if certainty holds everything together, it mustn’t fray. 

I became aware early on that there seemed little room for questions or rather that you could ask questions as long as you eventually arrived at the accepted conclusions. As life happened, I repeatedly suppressed doubts and internalised disappointment because I was afraid of losing not just my God but my community. 

This isn’t something that I could have put into language as a child and teenager because I was taught to fear my rebelliousness and to regard myself as incapable of good. I don’t blame anyone for that because the message was preached by people who were hemmed in by their own fear.

When I moved to Brighton in the UK for university at 19 I spotted an opportunity to discover myself outside the confines of church and figure out what I really thought about God. This was extremely short lived. Having moved countries as well as left home for the first time, the upset of culture shock sent me hurtling back toward the thing that felt vaguely familiar, church culture. I felt vulnerable and very much in need of God. 

I wound up settling into another tiny evangelical church that felt like family and met my husband who had recently started going to church and thinking about Christian spirituality. I remember liking that he wasn’t “too Christian” which may have been my subconscious telling me I wasn’t done exploring. 

The church we were in didn’t suit either of us. I couldn’t get on board with its complementarian gender politics and stringent views on divorce having grown up seeing women harmed by those beliefs. But there was love there and, actually, there was a lot of diversity of belief among the small congregation. 

We’ve moved further and further west since, each time jumping into a church straight away. I’ve felt progressively less connected to everything that was happening there, probably because I’ve felt that I couldn’t show up as my authentic self, that I had to hide what I was really thinking and feeling.  

Somewhere in the midst of that I had my first baby and found that new motherhood was a time when I was learning so much, feeling all the feelings and willing to put up with a lot less, which definitely exacerbated the situation. It was a period of highly accelerated growth.

When I tried to talk about my disappointment with church, I was encouraged to separate what I felt about God from what I felt about the church and to walk by faith not by feelings. I could see some merit in the former though there was and still is no clean demarcation in my mind. 

The latter, however, translated as a command to ignore my inner authority. I began to wonder whether God was really so unreasonable, so fragile. Why would God expect us to turn off our logic and intuition? In any other relationship, the demand for blind obedience would be considered abusive. 

The arrival of our first child was an initiation. We’d moved cities just before I conceived, I had trouble with mobility during pregnancy and I was working from home so I kind of had an enforced desert experience. Then once she was here, learning to live life with her, though full of every challenge, made me feel powerful in a way I’d never experienced before. For the first time, I could trust myself. 

There was also no doubt in my mind that God understood what I was experiencing. I could not be a better mother than God was. Nothing in me wanted to break anything in this little person I held. I just wanted her to know how much I loved her and wanted to know her. I wanted her to know that her value was unshakeable. If that was also true of God, I could bring to Her my questions and my creative, fumbling attempts at understanding life. 

Meanwhile, my kids were growing and I had to weigh up my desire for them to have the immersive community I’d enjoyed with the possibility that it could one day reject them. I answer their questions candidly and hope I’m raising them to think for themselves. I’m unwilling to teach them that they must make themselves small, quieting their own voices to be accepted. 

So we spent some time without a church. Sundays felt strange for a while – unmoored. For me it was the first time in my entire life that I’d not gone to church on a Sunday. For the kids too, actually.

At the same time, I was learning so much through reading, listening, having conversations with friends on similar spiritual journeys, and finding new ways of talking and listening to God. And my sense of church was expanding to include people who weren’t Christians and who had so much wisdom and love to share. I began to open up to ideas, practices and experiences outside the scope of the version of Christianity I’d grown up with.

We’ve since cautiously joined a liturgical church where there is, again, diversity of belief among the congregation but also softness from the front. I see it as just part of my family’s wider sense of community and just one of the places where I touch the face of God. Everything is so much more expansive now.

– Adele Jarrett-Kerr

Website 

Instagram 

Rather than our usual interview format, in this episode we host a conversation between Zoe Heming and Nick Thorley. Zoe is a priest in the Church of England and for many years has suffered with chronic pain, which often means she has to use a wheelchair. Nick works for Christian Aid and (as you may be aware) hosts Nomad Podcast. He has been visually impaired since he was a teenager. 

Zoe and Nick talk openly and honestly about their experience of disability, how it has shaped their life, faith, and experience of church, and how they’ve come to understand what it means to be whole.

It’s a challenging and inspiring conversation.

Conversation begins at 17m 25s

Images used with permission

QUOTES

“For me the kind of consistent theology that I know I can feel on firm ground with is God is here in the midst of this. When people say, ‘Why me?’ my natural reflex is, ‘Well, why not you?’ Life is how it is. And it’s a mixture of everything for everybody actually. And so the Christ figure Jesus coming and living in that and showing us that that’s not all there is and that that it’s not an end does feel like really safe ground for me. Because I’ve experienced that – God breaking into those moments when I dare to reach out when I’m in a difficult place…and nothing particularly changes, but that sense of God being with you is really transformative somehow.”

“I just think the way [Jesus] lived rather than the way he died is more interesting. And more helpful in terms of us as people trying to live a faithful life. But then the resurrection is kind of the next level of that really. So, the fact that he came back with scars means that the story’s never wasted and that our scars tell our story. That feels very real to me.”

Richard Beck is Professor of Psychology at Abilene University, author, blogger and leader of a weekly bible study for inmates at the maximum security French-Robertson unit. He’s also a big fan of the country musician Johnny Cash (who also knew a thing or two about prison).

David Blower (another Cash fan) asks Richard what we can learn from the faith of Johnny Cash, a man known for his deep empathy for the marginalised and who risked commercial success to stand in solidarity with them, but who also wrestled with deep personal pain and struggled for years with drug addiction.

After the interview, Nomad hosts David Blower and Tim Nash discuss what they can learn from the life of Johnny Cash and how this might shape their evolving faith.

Interview begins at 19m 28s

Image used with permission.

BOOKS

Trains, Jesus, and Murder: The Gospel according to Johnny Cash

Unclean: Meditations on Purity, Hospitality, and Mortality

Stranger God: Welcoming Jesus in Disguise

Story of a Soul: The Autobiography of St. Therese of Lisieux

WEBSITE

Experimental Theology

QUOTES

“A lot of us when we think about the cross think about it from a substitutionary atonement idea – that the death of Jesus saves us from the punishment of our sins. But another way – a supplemental way to think about it – is that the cross becomes kind of a compass. If we’re trying to locate God in the world – where is God, how do you find God? Well, if God is hanging on a cross as a convicted criminal – outside of the gates, as it says in Hebrews – then the cross becomes a way to locate God in the world. Where am I going to find God? I’m going to find God somewhere outsides the gates, and I’m going to find God – somewhat paradoxically – among the God-forsaken.”

“Solidarity’s harder, but it’s also human. It brings us into the human encounter. It’s a real relationship and real relationships are risky. Anybody who’s loved anybody knows that – to love is to bring risk. So, you can minimize your risk by just rescuing people. And I think churches do that, right? They would rather engage in charity, where it’s a one-sided giving but there is no risk in charity. That person can’t hurt me, they can’t disappoint me. But to enter into a friendship with somebody means that you bring in the risk of disappointment and disagreement and conflict. There can be heartache involved in that. But it’s worth the risk because you’re moving into the mystery of a deep, true human encounter.”

Two years ago, I went on a short trip to Venice with a friend to celebrate a big birthday.  As well as seeing some famous landmarks, I also hoped we could use our famously bad sense of direction to enjoy getting lost in this city known for its labyrinth of narrow streets. I was right and I was wrong, and it occurs to me now that this trip is a pretty good metaphor for my spiritual journey.

Image used with permission.

I was born a Catholic, no becoming, it just was. As well as church on a Sunday, I went to Catholic school both primary and secondary. It was a straight journey ahead; Christening, first Communion, Confirmation and, despite all the mystery within Catholicism, I don’t remember ever questioning any of it or being asked any questions about what I thought. It was normal life, the way things were. In terms of Venice, it was the Grand Canal; imperfect, winding and crumbly around the edges, but a direct route nonetheless. It wasn’t until my mid teens that a mixture of apathy and frustration saw me very quietly stop going to church.

With no plan I took a year off from religion, believing that it was it for me.  But then at a real low point in my life, I started going to a Pentecostal church and became a Christian, ‘for real’, so I thought. At the time I thought I was rebelling against my rigid Catholic upbringing and, that by getting rid of all the unnecessary religiosity, I could instead have something genuine, a relationship with God. I was introduced to the idea that what the Bible said was true and that its words contained power.  Over time I became more certain and believed my faith was getting stronger, yet there was still something missing.  I was using different words and singing different songs but essentially I still had a clear cut faith with little room for questioning and other opinions. Different gondola, same Grand Canal.

At the same time as I was believing for the best and holding onto promises, illness was slowly invading my body and my life. At first it was mostly exhaustion, meaning that getting to church on a Sunday was never a given and going to both services took most of the day and made for a gruelling Sabbath. It also meant that going to church was now forever tied in my mind with drivenness and disregarding my own physical needs. I gradually worsened and it was ironically on a Sunday after I’d pushed myself to go to church that I collapsed into bed and woke up with what I term ‘full-blown’ M.E. My life would never be the same again.

Silence and darkness of every kind followed. Many in my church now didn’t even know me, or had given up on me, and a rare few tried to support me but couldn’t understand the crushing tiredness their visit would cause. I was churchless once more but in a very different way. For the first time, I had a faith but nowhere for my faith to call home. Unable to leave the house, my ‘church’ was every Christian book I read, every sermon or talk I listened to, every Christian friend I made online. There were evangelicals, contemplatives, Catholics and Protestants of most if not every flavour. There was rich wisdom and large kindnesses, mixed in with some harmful and graceless theologies. In many ways, I was freer, and I explored that freedom, discovering for myself who I believed God was when there was no-one else but us. In the solitude, the despair and the hope, in learning to appreciate the small joys and in seeing what was truly important when life is stripped bare. Yet for all my thoughts of slowing down and being kind to my own body, my focus was still on pushing through to get better. I was still trying to make my way back to the Grand Canal.

It’s hard to pinpoint when this part of my journey fell apart. I had a relapse a decade after becoming ill when I’d believed I was getting better. There were losses and heartbreaks over several years after that. I no longer knew what to make of God, or my faith, but I couldn’t deny my way of living was not working. There was a time of grieving the faith I’d been so certain of. But then I realised, through everything falling apart, I was once again strangely free. Which brings me back to Venice.

In our wanderings we came across a wide canal we’d never heard of. The simplicity of sitting in early March sunshine on plastic chairs, watching life pass on the Giudecca Canal seemed a world away from the crowds and tourist traps we’d escaped. And there were other discoveries, the gondola boatyard, fruit markets and book sales in unlikely corners. Again and again it only took a few turns to enter pockets of astonishing stillness, or unexpected liveliness. My greatest discovery though was that, without an agenda or real expectations or a definite place to get to, it was in fact impossible to get lost. That if you take away the binary decision to go this way or that and replace it with openness and curiosity, what had been labelled a wrong turn became an opportunity. Before I’d been frightened of straying from the Christian path and now I was discovering meditation, Buddhist practices of self-compassion and acceptance and more. And instead of leading me away from faith, these practices helped me discover afresh what I’d always believed deep down. I was even able to revisit the Catholicism of my youth in a deeper and richer way. It is as if what was once a rather black-and-white faith was now becoming magnificent technicolour.  

Although I don’t know exactly where I am, I no longer feel lost. And I no longer see others coming from a different direction to me as lost. I find peace in the saying that a maze is a puzzle to be solved but a labyrinth is a path to be walked.

– Jenny Simpson

In this episode we speak with writer, speaker and researcher, Vicky Walker. Vicky conducted a survey with nearly 1500 people about their experiences of the changing nature of relationships and how, if at all, their faith and churches have helped them make sense of this. It turns out (spoiler alert!) the Church hasn’t always been that helpful. So where do we look for signs of hope in these confusing times? 

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash, Jemimah McAlpine and Nick Thorley discuss how the evangelical faith they inherited shaped their view of sex and relationships, and how these views have changed since their deconstruction.

Interview starts at 14m 5s

Image taken by Katie Garner. Used with permission.

BOOKS

Relatable: Exploring God, Love & Connection in the Age of Choice

Do I Have To Be Good All The Time

QUOTES

“I think that relational approach is probably the thing that will revolutionize the conversation, because it will just stop meaning ‘this one thing or failure,’ which is where I think a lot of people have felt pressured themselves.” 

“What we expect of church probably needs to change…we shouldn’t look to church to be the thing that fixes all of our relational needs…it shouldn’t misrepresent them either, or demand a loyalty to something that can’t work.”

One of my earliest memories is of sitting by the fire on my grandmother’s lap, hearing about inviting Jesus into my heart. As I grew up, I always had a sense of God being with me. My grandmother had come from a non-churchgoing family but chose to become a Christian in her teens. She attended a traditional rural Anglican church, was active in the Mother’s Union, read her bible, prayed a lot and shared her faith with those whom she loved. Her faith sustained her through being widowed at the age of 50 and having a daughter with severe bipolar affective disorder, my mother.

Image used with permission.

My parents were involved in the Charismatic movement of the 1970s and my father was ordained. In the muddy fields and marquees of charismatic camps, I learnt that God does not make people better, however fervently people told me that He can. And also that Christians can behave in really weird ways, which sometimes seemed to be connected with my mother ending up in a psychiatric hospital.

In my teens I found relative safety in what I now realise was a conservative Evangelical church, where head knowledge and obeying rules won the day. A large youth group was good for me in many ways, but the teaching did not help me make sense of life. A close friend, another vicar’s daughter, was killed in an accident. I learnt that bad things happen to good people and that God does not keep you safe.

At eighteen I arrived at university, unsure of what I believed, but I still sensed God’s presence. I remember being invited to join the Christian Medical Fellowship, but I was unable to sign up to their doctrinal statement. I went to the Christian Union once and knew that I did not belong. Then I found a book called ‘Am I still a Christian?’ written by a ‘liberal’ and from this I learnt that there is more that one way to be a Christian.  However, I had been warned about ‘woolly liberals’ and ‘slippery slopes’! I then discovered David Adam’s Celtic prayers which resonated with me then and have continued to be a source of strength when times have been hard.

My husband and I both inherited a faith where weekly church attendance was the norm, so we have always chosen to belong to a church community. From attending church with my grandmother, I was familiar with the Book of Common Prayer and traditional hymns and I still have a love for the richness of liturgical language. In 2004 we left a church due to a new incumbent’s particularly graceless evangelicalism. Being repeatedly told from the pulpit that you are evil is not good for anyone. At this time we found our current church which initially felt like a spiritual home. It was higher church than I was used to but I liked the greater emphasis on the different seasons and on symbolism.

Greenbelt has been an important part of my faith journey since I was in my teens, exposing me to a wide variety of Christian traditions and beliefs. It was there that I learned that the sky doesn’t fall in when women preside over communion. This seems so normal now, but at the time it was mind blowing. At Greenbelt, my husband and I heard Dave Tomlinson speak about his book, ‘The Post-Evangelical’. It was a significant moment for us; we had found our clan.

I have continued to question and attempt to make sense of life as I have encountered a variety of challenges and losses. Experience has taught me that deep love for family and a strong faith in God do not prevent depression and suicide, and that prayer does not keep someone alive; conception does not necessarily equate to the start of human life; sometimes you have to choose which is the lesser of two evils; love between two people of the same sex is beautiful and natural and not an abomination. Observation of the natural world and human behaviour has taught me that for life to exist, some pain is necessary and that the experience of joy is inevitably linked to suffering. 

About two or three years ago I was struggling with changes in our church. Again, I frequently found that the teaching was not answering my questions and I had an experience that was completely new to me. God was absent. Even in the darkest periods of my life, God was present and sustaining me. Even when, in my head, I questioned God’s very existence, He was there. But this experience was in my heart or soul, and at that moment, I felt utterly alone. 

This was a significant turning point for me; I knew that I had to act. I have discovered podcasts, in particular the Bible for Normal People and Nomad. I had struggled with much of the Bible all my life, feeling the disconnect between what I read (or how I read it) and real life experience. My evangelical beginnings cast a long shadow, but now I am finding new ways to understand and engage with the Bible. And Nomad has been like Greenbelt throughout the whole year for me. It has been a joy to hear such a variety of people discussing their faith and the many ways in which they live this out in their lives and communities. I have long been drawn to contemplative prayer and the resources on Nomad support this. 

My community is where I live out my faith. I continue to take an active part in our Church where, over the past two years, I have gained in confidence to speak out. I am passionate about the issue of LGBTQI equality and want to play a small part in making a change in the church. In the secular world, I work with people who have dementia, but in a service that recognises the importance of spiritual well-being. 

In church services, I am the one at the back with my hands in my pockets avoiding demonstrations of emotion, but alone at home I have discovered more music that helps me connect with God and occasionally I even dance! My journey continues. 

– Erica Bailey 

In this episode Jemimah speaks with Irish poet, storyteller and theologian, Pádraig Ó Tuama. It’s a profoundly wise and insightful interview, touching on themes of language, story, gospel, power, community, sexuality and religion.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Jemimah McAlpine reflect on Pádraig faith journey and ponder how the lessons he’s learnt might shape their own evolving faith.

Interview starts at 16m 10s

Image taken by Trevor Brady. Used with permission.

PERMISSIONS

This episode features poetry from Readings from the Book of Exile and Daily Prayer from the Corrymeela Community, which is used with permission by Canterbury Press

BOOKS

Readings from the Book of Exile

Daily Prayer from the Corrymeela Community

QUOTES

“Poetry is the capacity to sacramentalize things you wish you hadn’t experienced, but by approaching them with courage and with tenderness and vulnerability – poetry puts language around something. And so, poetry for me is a practice of courage.”

“We are storied and ‘storifying’ peoples…we have an inherent narrative intelligence, where we use one’s story and use that as a doorway to go into another story to begin to make sense of our lives, and to begin to use caricature and character in order to play around with the possibility of meaning, resistance and safety and shelter. And that’s a glorious thing to do.”

Raised in a Christian family, I was an earnest and passionate teenager, listening to Newsboys and ready to be God’s hands and feet. I threw myself into exotic and sacrificial adventures for the Lord. In my early twenties I was offered a job co-ordinating short term missions trips for young people – it would have been my dream job just months before. But around that time, my experience of Christianity broke. It felt as though the ground had fallen away and there was no sure footing. I believe God was behind that spiritual experience, but it was painful and scary. All that remained was a sense that God was real and God was good – and vaguely ‘the whole Jesus thing’. Everything else was suddenly up for grabs and any simplistic or narrow answers just made me angry. I didn’t go to church much at all for the next five years, and when I did it was problematic and painful. I listened to Rob Bell sermons at home and trusted that me and God were still ok. Gradually the anger subsided and I felt ready to reconnect somehow. 

Used with permission.

Seven years ago, my husband and I decided to root ourselves in a low-income community, start going to a church in walking distance and invest our energies locally. We found a church that seemed to be everything I was hoping for – small, welcoming, rough around the edges, full of good-hearted people of a variety of ages and backgrounds. The church is still the same, although it’s grown. I’ve grown too. 

As I have reconstructed faith and am more sure of what I *do* believe, not just what I no longer believe in, I have found it more and more difficult to fit in. (Thanks, Nomad Podcast.) I am grateful to have a few good friends who are on the same page, with whom I can speak freely, talk theology and life, and be myself. But outside of those safe spaces, it’s a different story. I’m naturally diplomatic and although I will readily speak my mind on politics or other issues, I’ve been cautious about rocking the boat when it comes to church. So over the last few years, I’ve held my tongue when I’ve felt that my different perspective might be confusing or unwelcome. After all, as I keep reminding myself, it isn’t my job to change anyone’s mind. Leading a house group with some very conservative evangelical members, my tongue-biting strategy became unbearable. I realised I had a deficit of integrity. I was fractured. 

In other areas of life I found myself to be more integrated, my faith flowing into my work and friendships in a different, more comfortable and natural way as I embraced a wider view of God and began to trust the glimpses of Christ I recognised in others. But at church, not allowing myself to be truly honest with anyone was taking its toll. I often wondered if it would be easier to stop going or to find a church full of like-minded people. The less I ventured my opinions, the more I imagined the entire church to be a homogenous bloc who all agreed with each other but not with me. Which, surely, is not the case. 

I have yet to find out. But I’ve decided that I need to be honest. I sometimes dream of a dramatic outburst: “…well I don’t agree with penal substitution and I’m gay affirming and the planet is literally on fire and we are all complicit and God has no gender and perhaps I am a universalist after all and WHAT OF IT?”. On reflection, I think a gentler approach might be more appropriate. I hope to become braver in answering questions honestly, offering alternative ideas when I’m faced with theology that I believe to be damaging, being more openly myself and hoping that people will deal with me kindly. They might not, of course, and I’m aware that many beloved listeners have shared painful stories of rejection for not following the party line in church. 

But I believe something powerful happens when we live fully from the depths of ourselves, knowing we are loved, ready to love others, bringing our unique gifts and perspectives to the world. I want to leave judgement of others and fear of being judged behind. I want to live kindly, gently, with conviction and integrity. I want to show up to life with my whole self, whether that be at church, at the school gates, at work or online. I’m nowhere near arriving at that goal, but I have to start somewhere. 

One more thing. A good friend of mine, with whom I did not always agree completely, died suddenly last week. I no longer care about the differences in our theology. I can only mourn the good friend that I have lost; the caring, compassionate, fiery woman that she was. I’ve realised that while I was holding my tongue, she didn’t hold back. She was the same person to everyone who knew her, never hiding her faith or opinions, and yet never pushing them on others. Surely what matters most is not what we think; not our current position on theology or politics or anything else. It’s how we live. We can choose to live with integrity, accepting ourselves as we are, extending grace to ourselves and to everyone around us. We can be brave and loving and free. Maybe that’s the gospel. 

– Becky Matyus

When Jennie Hogan was 11 years old she had a brain haemorrhage. Then at the age of 14 she had another one. This devastating experience left her with a brain injury that would transform her life. 

So we met up with Jennie at Goodenough College where she is a chaplain, to talk with her about how her experience of trauma, illness and disability has caused her to reflect on how she relates to her body, what an embodied faith means to her, how she’s learnt to live with uncertainty, and about the emergence of a new identity through her experience of brokenness.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Nick Thorley reflect on Jenny’s faith journey and ponder how their own experiences of disability and brokenness have shaped their evolving faith.

Interview starts at 17m 17s

Image used with permission.

BOOKS

This is My Body: A Story of Sickness and Health

QUOTES

“I think the Christian faith is the most embodied faith, and yet we don’t live it out because I think we’re afraid of our broken bodies. We’re afraid of our bodies. We’re afraid of each other’s bodies. They’re frightening, aren’t they? Cause they’re messy and frail and fragile. And we don’t like that. I think if we think about the church being Christ’s body, well then we shouldn’t get so worked up about it being a mess, should we? Cause it is chaos, it is frail – and that’s okay.”

“If we think of the broken body of Christ, we have to also recognize that we are broken and we can’t always be fixed. And does it mean that because my sight hasn’t recovered means that I’m any less valid or human, or that the church has failed, or that God doesn’t exist? The notion of being fixed is a fantasy. Why can’t we just live with the brokenness and the frailty and let that be healing?”

Author, speaker and activist Brian McLaren knows a thing or two about navigating an evolving faith. He was raised in the fundamentalist Plymouth Brethren tradition, but is now a passionate advocate for “a new kind of Christianity” – just, generous, and working with people of all faiths for the common good.

He also knows a thing or two about raising children, with four of his own, grandchildren, and he’s the author of the children’s book Corey and the Seventh Story.

So he seemed like the perfect person to talk to about how to raise your children in the faith, when you’re not sure where your faith’s at. 

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Nick Thorley reflect on Brian’s experiences, and ponder how they might shape the way they raise their own children at a time when their faith is evolving.

Interview starts at 17m 1s

Image used with permission

BOOKS

Corey and the Seventh Story

The Great Spiritual Migration: How the World’s Largest Religion is Seeking a Better Way to Be Christian

QUOTES

“It really is a very harmful statement – that many of us were taught – that the Bible is so simple, a child could understand it. That just shows that the grown-ups don’t know what they’re talking about; they don’t understand it.”

“We have to make sure every question is allowed. And one of the things I think we can do for our children that is honest and good is when they ask us a question, before we give them our answer, to ask them what they think about it. And show them that we respect them as members of the interpretive conversation.”

Soon after graduation from the academy, my family and a group of ten, took off from Cape Canaveral. We were part of ‘the new mission’; 25 vessels in all. We were all full of excitement. The overall mission coordinates were set by the academy; they determined the what; our ships determined the where and how. 

Image used with permission.

The exhilaration of light speed was powerful. However, soon into the mission, we experienced turbulence that never went away. I slowed the ship down gradually, but was concerned it would separate us from the convoy. The turbulence continued and was having a negative effect on the ship and all those on board. I hailed the lead ship and suggested that they take the other ten families off of our ship, onto theirs. A week after the others moved off the ship, leaving just our family there, I signalled the lead ship and suggested we shut the ship down for a period of time, so I could investigate further the root of the turbulence. “No, you risk the mission. This is normal. You have come this far. Keep going. This is not for the faint of heart. Continue.” His words bounced around my head. The turbulence continued, our family came under more stress, so one day, I signalled the lead ship that we were shutting down the engines and shutting down our communications. He was angry, but I knew in my core that we needed to do this. Something told me that I could not resolve this mysterious turbulence while in communication with the others. 

I would spend days looking at the ships engines and electronics to find the root problem, and at night, we would spend time as a family, talking, laughing. Life in the Academy had kept me so busy I had lost the art of rest. After dinner, we would look out the window, at the stars and just sit silently, floating in space. Night after night, we would sit there, suspended in space, between earth and our destination, lost, floating. “Do you think the ship is making a choice for us?” my wife asked me one night. “What do you mean?” “I think the ship decided something for us. It made a decision for us; one we were not brave enough to make on our own. I’ve noticed your desire to find the problem is lessening. You used to spend most of your time trying to find the problem. Now you spend most of your time, looking into space, reading, writing, talking to us. It’s as if you wanted this to happen.” “That’s ridiculous,” I said. But I knew she was right. 

Why wasn’t I trying harder to find the turbulence problem? Why wouldn’t we just go back to earth, very slowly? That would be so easy. She went to bed and I looked out the window. That’s when the truth came to me. “I can’t go back because I don’t fit in there anymore. I can’t go forward because I’m questioning the academy’s coordinates. The truth is, I wanted to be here, floating, because I couldn’t go back and I couldn’t go forward. But floating was for losers they said. The last place you want to be is lost in space, floating. That’s dangerous they always said. But it was what my heart needed and wanted. 

I turned on the communicator one night. There were many messages from the other ships, and from earth, concerned about us. I sent back messages that we were fine, but did not give out our coordinates, lest they rescue us. It’s lonely out here, floating, but I found I’m not alone. I found a frequency where there are others like me, floating. Their stories are similar to mine. Some of them have been floating for a while, some talk about the academy and their missions, which were to other galaxies. Some have just recently started to float. It’s funny to listen to them as they frantically try to repair, but you can hear in their voice, how much they long to float. One woman spoke of her struggle; to call a rescue ship to bring her home but not wanting it to turn up. What makes floaters unique is that they are quick to listen, and slow to speak, something we all learned at the academy, but rarely saw in practice. Most academy graduates were quick to be right and slow to listen; quick to give answers to all questions and doubts. I somehow know that if we went home, or continued on the original coordinates, there would be no judgement from the floaters. 

Our floating has taken us away from our regular routines and festivals we once attended on earth. We all feel the ache of their loss, the empty space that now fills them. I’m not sure how much I actually miss these routines but I just feel the empty space. Someone created a ‘floaters channel’ where we can speak in real time. We often just share our observations of the stars, but we also talk a lot about home. It’s a time with no agenda, no arguments.

The other night a rescue ship from the academy showed up on my radar. I happened to be awake at the time. It was 3am earth time. I did the strangest thing, without a thought. I cloaked the ship, making us invisible to them. I watched them pass in the distance. I zoomed my camera in on their cockpit. As they circled the vicinity of where our ship had recently registered, I could see the panicked look on their faces. I felt bad hiding. I understood their panic and appreciated their concern, but they didn’t have to be concerned. I could have been him. The biggest fear in the academy was to become a floater. We had heard stories of them, heard about the high percentage of those who ended up floating for years. Every life was to be lived between earth and the mission’s end, never to be caught stalled in the middle of the two. Yet, here we were in this strange place I call a terrible beauty. 

– Brian Ralph

Fr. Greg Boyle is a Jesuit priest, who in 1986 was appointed pastor of a church in one of the most deprived areas of Los Angeles, in a church that sat between two large public housing projects, which had the highest concentration of gangs in the country. 

Amidst shocking levels of violence and murder (Greg has personally conducted the funerals of some 229 young men), Greg slowly began to make connections with the gang members, and eventually established the largest gang rehabilitation and re-entry program in the world. 

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Nick Thorley reflect on Greg’s experiences and wonder how it might shape their evolving faith journey.

Interview starts at 16m 12s

Image used with permission.

BOOKS

Tattoos on the Heart

Barking to the Choir

WEBSITE

Homeboy Industries

QUOTES

“I just find it peculiar of human beings that death is the worst thing that can happen to us, which seems pretty odd given the fact that it’ll happen to all of us. And so I don’t really get it, you know? For me, I really do have a weird sense of it’s just like birth – we’re all born and we’re all going to die. And I don’t find that a difficulty. Because you want to be anchored in the things that are more powerful than death, and you don’t want to cling to anything.”

“We don’t want message. It’s not about message and it’s not about messenger. It’s about cherishing. Can you let yourself be cherished and can you cherish? And once you do that, everybody’s returned to themselves. And if that’s not Christ, then I don’t know what it is.”

There is but one journey towards both the authentic God, and the authentic self.

I was born in Central Scotland in 1952, and raised in fairly conservative Christian churches – Brethren (the ‘Open’ variety) and Baptist. As a child and teenager I felt strongly the pressure to be and to become the person my parents and churches seemed to expect of me. I neither knew myself, nor had a sufficiently robust inner confidence to begin the journey of self-discovery.

Image used with permission.

The expectation was that I would be ‘converted’:  an apparent turning-point which, from the ‘testimonies’ I heard, would be both emotional and transformational.  This experience repeatedly eluded me, and when I was about 15, asked yet again if I had been converted, I said ‘Yes!’, lying, naming as the occasion the most recent of my secret wrestles with an unresponsive heaven.

This lie led to anguish in my late teens and early 20s, an anguish triggered by my proneness to anxiety and depression, which it in turn nourished. I feared that the Lord would come, and I would be left; I felt comfortable neither among Christians, nor those whom my upbringing had led me to see as being on the ‘outside’; I had no skills in building relationships.

I thought if I confessed my lie, my hypocrisy, someone would help me, and was devastated when, having eventually done this, I was not believed.  The devil was unsettling me, I was told.  What terrible act, I wondered, did I have to commit to persuade them that I was not a believer?

When I was 22, I was blessed with a conversion experience, which did bring whispers of joy.  This new breath of life led to me buying a  Revised Standard Version Bible; I immersed myself in the Reformed theology of Martin Lloyd-Jones and entered his theological cosmos; I helped at a Scripture Union summer mission team where, for the very first time, I felt loved and accepted as I was.

I supposed I was now on the ‘inside’, but there were still twinges of sadness, and confusion when books I read – on prayer, for instance – did not resonate with my own experience. What, I wondered, was wrong with me?  Why was I not the John God was surely calling to me to be?

Through timidity, I lived with my parents until I was 31. They loved me enormously and generously, but I still felt the burden of their expectations that I would be someone I did not feel I had it in me to be.

My anxiety persisted; the doctor experimented with various drugs; I withdrew from psychotherapy because my mother (who herself struggled with not-truly-acknowledged mental health issues) could not bear the sound of  relaxation tapes in the house.

I found the courage to move to a church other than the one I was attending with my parents.  The friendship and support I found there empowered me to move into my own flat. But still, God seemed generally absent, though there were ‘Yes!’ moments of insight, joy, givenness.  I immersed myself in intense busyness at church, seeking fulfilment in roles, while still feeling ‘on the outside.’

I must seek the Holy Spirit – the Spirit would surely lead me in. I sought this experience, was prayed for, the demons of suicide were rebuked, but the longed-for Paraclete neglected to descend. And then I realised – or God prompted the realisation – that the Holy Spirit I longed for so much had always been with me and in me, and would perpetually accompany my future.

I learned in my 30s relationship lessons which most people acquire as teenagers. Though there was much sadness and rejection, there was also a discerning that nothing would ever be the same again. I read books through which I was reminded in ‘given’ moments of clarity that I was loved by God, accepted.

When I was 38, my doctor tried a medication which significantly moderated the symptoms of anxiety and depression, and I have taken this ever since.  This drug, combined with a hope which I believe was God-planted, gave me the courage to go abroad for the first time, and to meet Lorna through a Christian introduction agency. We were married in 1992, and have two adult daughters.

But still, I felt on the outside, still journeying towards a sense of authentic identity.  In the 1990s, I began to question the assumptions of evangelicalism. I remember the alien thought, listening to a sermon on Jude’s epistle, that there was a hollowness behind the preacher’s loud, eloquent words. 

I puzzled over teaching about gay people; I was unsettled by contradictions in the Bible; I came to think that Systematic Theology was a threadbare thing, an intellectual robe painstakingly woven to conceal our unknowing.

I read books like Dave Tomlinson’s Post-evangelicaland Alan Jamieson’s A Churchless Faith. There were ‘Yes!’ moments in the kitchen. I joined a pre-social-media group called Spirited Exchangesa go-to place for nomads of the early 2000s.

I had been standing in the darkness, looking through the window of the cosy cottage of evangelicalism, watching as they sang worship songs around the blazing fire, wanting desperately to enter, but unable to find a door which would yield to me. Now I looked up, and saw no longer darkness, but the vast dome of a bigger place, home to all of us who call on the name of Jesus.

For years, I called myself a ‘complicated evangelical’, sitting on the fence, forever drawing back after I had taken a few tentative steps on the forbidden side.  I envied those who could walk away from evangelicalism seemingly unscathed.  Only in 2017 did I realise that I must say ‘I am no longer an evangelical’ (in the sense of holding many of the beliefs of evangelicalism), and so took my stand in a broader, inclusive place.

Throughout my life, there have been friends through whom God’s loved reached me, and I found more friends in Nomad. 

I was helped by Richard Rohr’s work, and by Jung’s concept of self-actualisation, and of living with the shadow.  I realise that in welcoming God, you are in fact welcoming yourself, and that the more you become the person God has made you to be, the closer you draw to God. I realised that the dark stuff in me is not the enemy; it is part of me, to be acknowledged, though I do not choose to let it live me. And as I learn to welcome, indeed to love the darkness in me, so its power is diminished.

I remain prone to anxiety and to troughs of sadness, but I seek to choose joy, not pretending to be joyful, but recognising the pain, while resolving to act in the light of a joy and love which I do not, for the moment, experience.  And yet there are also moments when it is as though God knocks on the front door, and when I open it, says ‘Hey, do you want to come out to play?’

My faith now is pretty minimalistic. I believe in a Great Love which grieves over our brokenness, and summons the whole of humanity into its embrace.  I am a follower of the Jesus in whom this Great Love was most evident.

I have many questions, but loved with such a love, I do not need to know the answers.  To me, faith  is not so much about what you believe, as how open you are to the Love, and how fully (if imperfectly) it is expressed in all your living.

I know now that there is no ‘inside’, no ‘outside’. We are all  beloved daughters and sons of the Great Love, who summons us from light to darkness.

– John Dempster

Instead of our regular show we’re treating you to a Nomad Devotional. Community development worker, Simon Jay reflects on life in his neighbourhood and his discovery of urban walking as a form of prayer and community building. David Blower responds with music and ambient sounds.

You can enjoy devotionals like this every month, along with Nomad Contemplations and access to our Listener Lounge. Simply donate $5 a month through Patreon or £4 through our PayPal membership page.

Image used with permission.

QUOTES

“If instead of driving through the main [road] arteries we were to walk to our church, no matter how long it took — and whilst walking we intentionally crossed the different boundary lines and went through different neighbourhoods — I wonder if most of us would ever reach our church. Not because it’s too far, but simply because we come across communities and neighbourhoods and stories that compel us to stay there.”

“Walking is prayer, for me. A lot of people, when they practise prayer, they speak — but for me, the very act of walking is prayer. When I walk, particularly when I am walking intentionally…I ask God to reveal himself to me within the very fabric of those places and spaces. I have this quite profound and moving encounter, of seeing God emerge through the most unlikeliest of places.”

“All healthy religion shows you what to do with your pain…If we do not transform our pain, we will most assuredly transmit it.” – Richard Rohr

My spiritual journey has certainly been shaped by pain.

Image used with permission.

The point from which we as a family tend to measure all time is 8am on November 16th 2003, when we discovered our young son Ethan had died in his sleep. Unknowingly to us he had contracted septicaemia while he had been ill with the flu.

That date, and what rapidly unfolded after it, shapes – to a greater or lesser extent –  everything we do as a family and frames the way we see everything. So I tend to always begin with this event, and the feelings that have anchored themselves to it, as it looms large over all that has happened since and how my theology and faith have been shaped.

I am from a large, loving Christian family. I fell in love with Mark, married and started our family when I was 24. Ethan came along and slotted into our busy lives as we carried on serving in our local Pentecostal church. Our second son, Jonah, came along surprisingly quickly and we found ourselves beginning to struggle to keep all the balls in the air. Leading, running the youth group, singing, and helping out in various other ways left us little time to nurture our small family. I started to resent the expectations being placed on us as capable and willing young leaders.

I suspect we were heading for classic burn out. But then our trajectory got thrown completely off course when on that Sunday in November 2003 everything changed.

Slowly we began to piece back together the fragments of our relationships and family, and return to work. My spiritual journey was the last thing I could focus on. The questions I had for God seemed too big and I wasn’t sure I actually wanted the answers. It would be two years before I felt able to start picking up the pieces of my faith from the wreckage.

At this point I had drifted away from church. A new pastor had come along and things had changed. The culture of our church – future-focused and celebratory – gave little room for sadness or lament. 

Fortunately, I found a more open and honest space in a mums bible study at a local toddler group.Over the next few years I began to explore what my faith really meant. I was drawn to the Northumbria Community’s Rule of Life, especially the focus on being authentic and vulnerable. This resonated with me as a grieving mum. I wanted real, authentic friends and conversations, and I truly believe that God put those very people in my life. They were Jesus to me, letting me be myself and giving me space to wrestle with questions and struggles.

Meanwhile our home church was going through its own trials and many of our friends were caught up in the hurts and fallout from this. We remained but drifted further away as I was left feeling disillusioned by the way people had been treated. And I felt that I needed to take responsibility for my own spirituality rather than rely on the church to feed me.

I began reading and searching for different ways to do church. It was during that time that I stumbled across Nomad Podcast. It was so refreshing to listen to the talks and not feel so isolated. I started reading books and exploring different expressions of church. Thin places and quiet days, Celtic spirituality and new monastic rhythms of life all allowed me to sit with my feelings, and helped me get through some of the harder days now that we had another baby. 

Looking back, it was quite an intense but joyous time. The mums group I was part of was a real sanctuary. We explored creative prayer and I began to have a greater capacity to give out again. I started to volunteer at a local food bank and became a befriender for a bereavement charity, offering peer support to other parents who had lost children.

I began to realise that my grief and spiritual journey were intrinsically linked. Earlier on in my grief I often felt very alone as Mark and I grieved so utterly differently. Once I realised that it was totally normal for individuals in couples to grieve in different ways, I began to relax.

I now realise that God really was holding me during that time. I’ve now felt able to become part of a church community again, but with very different boundaries and spiritual practices that have helped me be myself and to own my own story.

It gives me a real sense of hope when I come across other people who have walked the path of pain and have been transformed and reformed by it. No longer the same person, but perhaps a more whole person. Vulnerable, alive and rich in compassion.

This has given me a desire to see Jesus in everything and everyone, and it has been an enriching experience. Elizabeth Barrett Browning sums this up beautifully.

“Earth’s crammed with heaven, 

And every common bush afire with God; 

But only he who sees takes off his shoes…”

So now I rest in the knowledge that the mystery of faith is OK. We don’t need all the answers. God meets us in our pain, often by bringing people alongside us on our journey, people who speak life to us. God is in everything and everyone, we just need to slow down, take a look around and maybe take off our shoes every once in a while.

Rachel Huskisson

How do we face change? How do we move through suffering? How do we receive joy? And how do we mature in service? According to psychologist, spiritual director, liturgist and author Alexander Shaia, these four questions are the central questions of our lives. They are universal, sequential, and cyclical, and are recognised by every major religious faith and school of psychology and forms the very heart of Christian belief and practice. In fact, Alexander made the startling discovery that each of the four gospels were written to address one of the four questions. So if we long for transformation, then we need to join the gospel writers in wrestling with these questions. 

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash, Jemimah McAlpine and David Blower reflect on Alexander’s discoveries and discuss what they might personally take from it.

Interview starts at 15m 30s

Image provided by Alexander Shaia. Used with permission.

BOOKS

Heart and Mind: The Four-Gospel Journey for Radical Transformation

QUOTES

“…when we’re facing an abyss, when all of our tradition seems to be in doubt, when everything has been deconstructed or demolished, the first thing to know is that this has not happened as an indication that God has left us.”

“The deepest suffering is from those family and friends around us that we would most like to support us or to accompany us. And unless someone has really walked this deep journey of transformation, they are not likely to be able to appreciate, applaud, or accompany when we’re on this journey.”

“I have no idea where I am going,
I do not see the road ahead of me,
I cannot know for certain where it will end.”
– Thomas Merton

We were a group of malcontent teenagers. Think the churchy version of those hooded youths loitering outside of Sainsbury’s late on a Saturday night. Dissatisfied with the status quo, we ran our own early morning prayer meetings, emailed around our Bible study notes and spent after school evenings running Youth Alpha courses for our friends. For fun, we memorized Scripture and cleared gardens for disadvantaged families. We revelled in the intensity of Christian summer camps but secretly suspected most of the adult members of our small-town New Frontiers church congregation weren’t ‘real’ Christians. Where was their zeal? 

Image used with permission.

Underpinning our earnest efforts was a potent combination of excitement about faith, a relentless pursuit for an unidentified more, and a need to be history makers in this world. Christianity was absolutely central to my life. It was a pretty positive teenage obsession as they go. 

Yet here I was, now in my twenties, roaming the damp Welsh hills around a small Christian retreat centre. I was looking for answers. My faith had undergone some seismic shifts since then. I found more inspiration reading Wendell Berry novels than the Bible. My church was a natural ‘cathedral’ of Beech trees where I sat alone on a Sunday morning. Most of my friends wouldn’t identify me as a Christian. I’m not sure I would have, either. But prayer was a habit I kept up instinctively, firmly rooted in a decade of diligent practice. I certainly didn’t want to return to the frenzied faith of my teenage years, but I still found myself looking back longingly on those times. 

It was a grimy Welsh day but I trudged uphill across boggy heathland towards the high point marked on my map. As I climbed, a thick fog settled around me, so dense that I could barely see 10m ahead of me. Walking through the heather with no path and no sightlines made me nervous. How could I know if I was going straight? I felt utterly cut off from the world, alone in a foggy soup, half expecting to see a mythical beast emerge through the mist. My eyes scanned constantly for where the next weathered signpost would appear, beckoning me on in the right direction.

As I climbed, it occurred to me that this was exactly what my life felt like at that moment. Hard, uncertain and lonely. I had no idea where I was going, every blessed signpost a reassurance that I hadn’t altogether left the path of faith.  A clear direction and destination, companions along the way, assurance that I was actually going somewhere. These were the luxuries I missed from my teenage faith.

My faith journey up to that point had taken me across some varied terrain. The flat tarmacked paths of evangelicalism had given my fledgling faith as a teenager an easy, speedy start. It had given me much reverence for the Scriptures, for good character, for morals. There I learnt to be proactive about faith and to always ask whether my beliefs meant good news for others, too. But it left me with a suspicion of the unknown, with an unhealthy need to know the right answers and a desperate need to be ‘in’. In my blinkered self-righteousness, I was embarrassingly disparaging of other faiths and denominations. Fear underpinned my fragile faith in many ways. 

I dipped my toes into charismatic streams as a University student and found some affinity there. Wading through those waters was thrilling and terrifying; it felt like taking my faith to the next level. I was intimidated and inspired by the people I met here, people who fizzed with a holy joy and seemed to have constant communication with God. I learnt from them to value and engage imagination as part of my spirituality. Sharing prophetic words, praying for healing, speaking in tongues…I jumped in with both feet. But whatever I experienced, it was never enough, and deep down I had an inkling that I wasn’t always being honest with myself about my spiritual experiences. The language and practices of charismatic Christianity often felt uncomfortable and forced; I was the actress playing her part. 

A rocky year of full-time church work sent me off on my own wilderness paths for a while. My wandering found me in the pews of the local Anglican church, surprised by the refreshment I experienced there. Here I found quiet meadows of freedom, permission to be myself without expectations or requirements. The liturgical rhythm carried me through having no words of my own. Mystery was welcomed and suffering acknowledged. But I lacked companions for the journey and a sense of belonging. It was a resting place but I wasn’t home. 

Where next? At 25 years old, I had reached a dead end in every area of my life: faith, work, relationships. So, I did what I have always done when I need some direction in life. I took myself off to the remotest part of the country I could access and headed for the hills. The foggy, boggy Welsh hills as it turned out. Maybe God would speak to me here. Or maybe I was just getting more lost. 

Signpost by signpost I ascended the hill. It seemed to be taking too long. I wondered if I should turn back while I still could. But then suddenly it appeared a few meters in front of me, dark against the misty white backdrop: the mounded stones of a small cairn. As I stood there, at the top, wind spraying rain against my cheeks, my uncertainty gave way to exhilaration. Wild and wonderful, mysterious and magical, the beautiful gift that I alone was here to experience this moment. I was alive. I was glad to be on this part of my journey, even if I didn’t know where I was or where it would end. I didn’t need to. My only task was to keep walking. 

Five years have passed since then. My path has taken some unexpected twists and turns, landing me back in the small town I grew up in and married to a friend from my youth. Now raising our own small children in the church of our teenage years, we have become the lacking-in-zeal adults we once criticized. Faith for me now is less fraught than it was then, even though I have fewer answers and more questions than ever. Certainty is not equal to security.

For the first time in my life, I am content, not striving for more or anxious for the next step. There are a lot of things I have left behind, at least for now. I still love the Scriptures, still love to sing together on a Sunday morning, to whisper a bedtime prayer with my children, to share communion with my family. Although it isn’t easy, I have finally found a home where I can belong to a community of people, despite differences, and begin the difficult work of learning to love one another. For that I am thankful. 

I still don’t know where I am going on this journey.  But the mist has lifted and the view has opened up spectacularly. I am able to look back with thankfulness about where I have come from and look ahead with hopefulness about where I am headed. The terrain will change again, no doubt, but I am not afraid of the uncertainty. I only need to keep walking.

Kandace Burnhams

Episcopal priest, professor, theologian and author Barbara Brown Taylor, joins us on Nomad.  In the early 2000s Barbara left the ministry, an experience she described in Leaving Church, the first of a trilogy of books about redefining her faith. But it’s what Barbara got up to after church leadership that we want to talk about.

Barbara spent 20 years teaching world religions, and forming relationships with local leaders from a variety of other faiths, a journey which she describe in her latest book Holy Envy. So we quiz Barbara on what she’s learnt about finding God in the faiths of others.

After the interview Nomad hosts David Blower, Jemimah McAlpine and Tim Nash reflect on Barbara’s journey and chat about what the lessons she’s learnt might mean for their own evolving faith.

Interview starts at 18m 16s

Image used with permission.

BOOKS

Holy Envy: Finding God in the Faith of Others

Leaving Church: A Memoir of Faith

QUOTES

“One thing I always ask a community is, ‘What would I have to do to get kicked out of your community?’ And they’ll say, ‘Well, what do you mean?!’ And I say, ‘Well, if there’s nothing I could do to get kicked out, then what does it mean to be in communion with you?’

“I do – when I read the New Testament stories about Jesus – see him quite often interacting with religious strangers with no requirement they become other than who they are. I think we put spins on the stories about him that make it sound that way. But I’m a biblical scholar, and I don’t find it there when I actually crawl through the text. So, I still feel pretty Christian in all this; that Christianity may be the way that’s open to all other ways if we can learn how to be better theologians and biblical readers about that.”

In this episode we bring together London based sociologist, pastor and community theologian Sally Mann and Philadelphia based social activist and author Shane Claiborne. Shane had crossed the pond to join Sally and others in launching Red Letter Christians UK. So we took the opportunity to quiz them about the state of evangelicalism in both the UK and US, what lies at the heart of their faith, their concerns about post-evangelicalism, and why they see signs of hope in the Red Letter Christians movement.

After the interview Nomad hosts David Blower, Jemimah McAlpine, Tim Nash and Nick Thorley reflect on their own experiences of evangelicalism, their subsequent deconstructions, and where they are seeing hope.

Interview starts at 12m 30s

Images provided by Sally Mann and Shane Claiborne. Used with permission.

BOOKS

Red Letter Christianity

WEBSITES

Red Letter Christians UK

Red Letter Christians US

QUOTES

“People hear the word ‘evangelical’ they think anti-gay, anti-women, racist, pro-guns, pro-military, anti-environment – so many of the things I think would nauseate Jesus…I found that the deeper I fell in love with Jesus, the more I found myself at odds with evangelicalism.”

“The real place that I think Christianity is best defined is as a ‘minority report’ within a community – not people that hold coercive power. I think we need to let go of that idea that we can dictate moral programs to the nation. I think we need to embrace the idea that we are living a counter-cultural movement – which will probably always be on the edge – and to embrace the idea of small can be very effective. Small authentic community can be mustard seed, can be wheat, can be yeast. I think giving up the idea of having a kind of institutional power – a right to institutional power – it’s healthy that we’re being shaken free of that.”

When I think of the word “Nomad” I think of how it can include the idea of being a misfit and I relate strongly, and fondly, with that idea. I experienced events early in my life that mean I shall forever feel like a misfit.

Image used with permission.

As a child, my internal life was crushed, pulled part, and scattered in places that I’m still struggling to find almost fifty years later. There is hope, lots of it, and that is what I hope to convey.  

I became aware of Jesus’s presence in my life at the age of four, and the profound nature of that experience still amazes me to this day.

I would say that Jesus has pursued me all my life, but please don’t read that it a sentimental way. I would often try to avoid this reality, thinking that life would be so much easier without him.  

After the traumatic events of the early years of my life I went numb internally for almost a decade. It often felt like I was pretending I was human. Then I searched out counselling and stuck with it over twelve gruelling years, until it was abruptly ended when the therapist lost his license for having an affair with a client. All of a sudden I was alone with all this partially processed junk in my life. All I felt I had was this Jesus who continued to pursue me. He remained kind and gentle, and I made it. I went to nursing school and have worked with children for the last eleven years.

So this is what I would like to convey about my journey. My life seems to be about Jesus. I just cannot seem to shake him off. I don’t think I’m ever going to fit into a church, feel like I own a particular theology, or even have a clear sense of what it means to be a Christian. All I know is that there is a kindness that keeps whispering to me, that asks me to sit and be aware of how much I am loved. Jesus is with me and asks me to hang in there.  

I adopted a prayer I heard from someone, it goes “Father, help me to know your love so well that I cannot help but love others.” I use this prayer as a mantra for my life. I try to view myself and the world through this lens. It’s challenging though because it continually asks the question, where is God’s love within any experience I may be having. But it’s led to me listening to life in a different way. I hear the pauses, the sighs and the laughter throughout the day. It’s helped me to hear Jesus more clearly when I am with others. I recoil at feeling obligated to mention my faith to others but find myself compelled to fill the gaps, pauses, and sighs I hear throughout the day with kindness. When I step into those places I find Jesus. And I often experience that odd paradox that I feel loved while trying to express love towards others.

I work on a hospital acute care unit that has kids who want to either hurt themselves or others, or both. I will leave you with something I wrote as an attempt to process a difficult week with a difficult patient. I believe these words would not be possible had I not been pursued by Jesus.

Whispering Into Cracks

Cracks. They represent pain, vulnerability, and an entry point for disease, when viewed by a nurse looking at a patient’s skin. I sat at the feet of a patient with cracks all over his feet, abrasions over other parts of his body, and swollen hands from punching people and walls. This patient was described as a monster by numerous people, for numerous reasons. I sat on the floor at his feet to apply medicated cream and thought about my co-worker whose jaw he broke. I tried to push away a sense of fear. As I started to apply the cream I heard him try to communicate some feeling of gratitude. But I only heard the tone. A beautiful whisper that was full of appreciation. The cracks looked painful and angry, like the anger he expressed toward others that brought him to this hospital.

His short life has been full of rage and he described later how he, his siblings, and meth-addicted parents resolved all conflicts by ‘knocking the shit out of each other’. Knowing this made his whisper of gratitude all the more profound. My soul whispered gratitude too, despite the brutalities of this world. 

I massaged the cream into his feet for as long as I could, hoping he would experience both this whispered kindness and gratitude, which I assumed he had been deprived off for much of his life. 

There is a whisper of kindness in this world, and I hear it more and more. This kindness sits at my soul’s feet, washes them and applies a healing ointment. There is no other response to give but gratitude. This kindness lingers and draws me deeper in. Every fibre of my being wishes my patient could hear this whisper. I believe this patient, with so many cracks, vulnerabilities, and openings for a disease to enter into his young soul, has the ability to know love, and to whisper gratitude. I believe this to be true for him, me, and everyone else living in this broken world. There is a love that whispers into cracks.

Miche Spring

Cynthia Bourgeault is a mystic, priest, and author, who is committed to teaching and spreading the recovery of Christian contemplative practices. So she’s the perfect guide for nomad’s ongoing exploration of contemplative practices.  

She’s been a long-time advocate of the meditative practice of Centering Prayer, and so that’s what we quizzed her on.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Nick Thorley reflect on their own relationship with prayer – pre and post-deconstruction – and ponder what place Centering Prayer might have in their evolving faith.

Interview begins at 14m 30s

Image provided by Robbin Whittington. Used with permission.

BOOKS

The Heart of Centering Prayer: Nondual Christianity in Theory and Practice

QUOTES

“In centering prayer, you don’t have a focal point for your attention – you’re not focussing on the breath or on a word or on an image of God. We do use a word in centering prayer to help release thoughts when we get stuck with it. But it sort of serves the function of a windshield wiper on car – it just helps sweep the screen clean. It’s not something to focus on; it’s not something you replace a thought with.” 

“A lot of people think that belief and trust are synonymous – they’re not, they’re wildly different. Belief is signing on the dotted lines to rational or irrational premises. Trust is a basic attitude of opening to life, being able to go through it – not like a little turtle with your head drawn into your shell, but like a turtle full out basking on log on a sunny day.”

How do you feel about almonds? Personally, I love them in every single form, from the marzipan that covered the wedding cake my husband shockingly made us to the milk in my cereal this morning. The thing about almonds is that they come from very thirsty trees.

Image used with permission.

The thirsty nature of these delicious, life-giving nuts featured in a years-long drought plaguing California, where 80% of the world’s almonds are produced. Successive years of insufficient rain and aggressive industrial agriculture shrank the aquifers California depended on. But it wasn’t just almond trees that needed the receding wellsprings; so did the thousands of people living in rural communities across California who depended on household wells to supply water to their homes.  As the rain stopped falling and the agriculture industry sucked up what was left, California wells ran dry.  Although industrial farmers could afford the heavy machinery to drill down deep enough to keep the world’s almond supply afloat, your average person could not. 

Before hearing this story, I didn’t fully understand the metaphor “to plumb the depths.” A cursory understanding of the way plumbing works doesn’t capture the total desperation of a dry well. A ton of effort and money is expended to dig wells deep enough to sustain households indefinitely, then uncontrollable circumstances come along and dry them up. No matter how far you dig, you can’t quite tap the water deep in the depths. The thing that once sustained you is out of reach.

Last spring, California’s drought came to an end, for the time being; Instagram feeds filled with super-bloom selfies as evidence. Yet, as her wells began to replenish, 3,000 miles away, mine were beginning to run dry. There was no shortage of water in New York City; our taps were predictably delivering copious amounts of fresh Catskills water into glasses and bathtubs and the dough for the best bagels in the world. Rather, it was the wellspring of my spirit that was quickly draining her reserves. 

“My soul thirsts for you, in a dry and weary land where there is no water.” Scripture is full of metaphors of thirst and drought; the people who wrote it knew what it meant to live in an arid place. Yet, I found myself asking, how does the river of life promised to Christians become a dry and barren place? 

I was raised in a Pentecostal church, where songs of ever-flowing springs were sung with raucous praise and congregants would dance in circular loops around the sanctuary like Hassids on a holy day.  There, the favor of the Lord resulted in material wealth and a victorious life, a reward for obedience. In this theology, if your springs were running dry, you were probably being punished or tested. For a young girl prone to anxiety, the nearness of hellfire was ever-present. My fail-safe was to serve the church relentlessly and remove any temptation to sin. Because of this, immense guilt followed benign things, such as enjoying a ‘secular’ song or having a crush. Some parents worried about their children rebelling…my parents pleaded with me to go to a party sometime. 

Those intense years of Christian perfection were a struggle; I felt like a dry riverbed that reflected a verdant mirage to others. Even worse, I believed the emptiness and sadness I held proved a lack of faith, and I was terrified someone might find out. All the pretense and effort caused that little 17 year-old girl to burn out, and my mother encouraged me to take a step back from serving. I experienced my first panic attack while resigning from my posts, the guilt of disappointing the church and God was so strong. I lived in that shame until one July day the following year. I was at a Christian festival I didn’t want to attend, sitting alone in a field far from the throngs. I don’t remember my exact thoughts, but I remember the heat, the long grass, the ridgeline of trees in the distance, and the sudden voice of God speaking to my heart…“ You can stop trying, you never needed to try. I love you as you are, regardless of what you do.”

It is one of the moments in my life I am most grateful for. Whereas many of my Christian friends spun out from the legalistic clutches of our culture into chaos, I fell into the arms of a God of love, who saw me as I was and found it to be enough. For the first time in my life, I had my own well of fresh, living water flowing within me. 

A few months later, I headed across the country to Los Angeles to attend a non-denominational Christian college; It was as far from home as I could get on the continental United States, and a place where I’d experience another kind of Christianity. A staunchly evangelical institution, the Spirit of Love often rebelled within me against the strictures some of my classmates and professors imposed on the faith. Whereas I had once been taught a dry well was a sign of sin, I was now taught that dry and weary seasons were anticipated as a normal course of the Christian life. It was not what one ‘felt’ that made them Christian, it was the right beliefs they clung to, regardless of feeling. One simply travelled through the desert place and trusted.

It didn’t take long for me to head down a spiritual road less travelled by many of my fellow evangelicals, finding solace in liturgy and centuries old texts, exploring alternate methods of biblical interpretation, finding beauty in other traditions, and questioning assumptions. The path I walked became a genuinely verdant one. While my ever-expanding view of God’s love occasionally came into conflict with American evangelical orthodoxy, I always seemed to find my people along the way- fellow travellers not afraid of big questions or satisfied with easy answers. Early on, a mentor told me that “sometimes you have to come up to the cliff of what people think is heresy and look over.” I took on a view that a genuinely seeking heart would always be caught and that God was not threatened by ideas. My perspective mirrored what Thomas Merton called “a submarine life in which faith sometimes mysteriously takes on the aspect of doubt, when, in fact, one has to doubt and reject the conventional and superstitious surrogates that have taken the place of faith.” For nearly two decades, this approach to a life of faith has served me well.

However, something that stuck was this sense that one had to muscle through dry seasons in faith. I thought I’d done it, from time to time in a low point here or there. But you see, I had only experienced a temporary lowering of water levels in my well; the rain always came to refill it, until for too many days it didn’t. My theology explained the obvious; a faithful life was not necessarily a pain-free life; in life struggle was often par for the course.  The thing it did not explain was how one could get so bone-dry in the first place. 

In this arid place, I looked around my interior landscape and saw a metaphor in the almond trees. I saw how, in a season of little rain, something that otherwise might bring joy and life could suck your reservoir dry. There were so many thirsty things in my life drawing from my spiritual reserves; challenges in my spouse’s ministry, constant change, and the toxic spiritual and political climate in the home country I had only just returned to. It feels like, right now in America, there is no safe space for people of faith. From every corner, some vested political interest is co-opting ‘god’ for their own ends, damming up the rivers of life with special interests and campaign slogans. 

I realized I had been knuckling down, trying to bore deeper and deeper through the bedrock, while all the noise was leeching the water out from every level. All I could do was put aside the drills and wait for the rain that just wouldn’t seem to come. Meanwhile, I was hoarding my reserves, cautiously sipping from the remaining canteens, resentful of anyone who asked to share for fear I would run out. 

Can you guess how the residents of rural California survived the drought? Government agencies and nonprofits provided a steady supply of water, carried in from outside sources. Bottles, jugs, and big water tanks that could be replenished at filling stations. Reflecting on this has been a revelation; when my spiritual well is empty and the rain is not falling, I can find God in the filling stations, in the gifted bottles, in the water tanks. 

More explicitly, the lesson I have taken is: humble yourself, and fill up where you can. Just like I have balked against someone presenting a political litmus test for membership in the Christian community, I have realized I must not present a spiritual litmus test for others, but instead find God where I can in their midst. I have learned my thirst can be quenched in a catholic mass or a mega-church or a podcast or a conversation with a fellow traveller, no matter which road they’ve come from. I’ve learned that I don’t need to sign up to all the particulars to realize that in each place there is something they’ve got right about God’s nature and what it means to be human. So, I fill up my tank, and a couple extra bottles to share and I continue to wait for the rain, but I do it less alone.

In the opening pages of the Universal Christ,Richard Rohr references “..the Full and Big Tradition, by which I mean the perennial tradition, the Wisdom of the entire body of Christ…” In some ways, it seems that figuring out what this is has been the great lesson of my life so far. I know I am not done learning it, and I have no idea where it will take me. But I think I see some rain clouds in the horizon…and maybe, was that perhaps a little drizzle?

Liza Cucco

Christopher Collingwood is an Anglican priest – Canon Chancellor of York Minster, no less. And…he’s a Zen teacher. So clearly he knows a thing or two about navigating an evolving faith, and the pushback that can come with it.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Nick Thorley ponder how, if at all, Zen can help them on their our journey of faith deconstruction and reconstruction.

Interview begins at 16m 30s

Image used with permission.

BOOKS

Zen Wisdom for Christians

QUOTES

“What Zen shows you fairly quickly is that all those ideas that we have – all those concepts, those constructs, and so on – aren’t the reality themselves. So, Zen really takes you to the reality of life. Life as it is and not as we think it should be or would like it to be.”

“If we affirm that you’re only really who you are when you’re thinking, then we would be brought to a point at some stage where we would be inclined to say, ‘Oh, well that person clearly is no longer a person.’ And yet in every other respect, they may show all sorts of signs of what it is to be a person. So, Zen takes us beyond our identification with our thoughts and our thought processes.

Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Jemimah McAlpine sit down with fellow host David Benjamin Blower to talk through his new album – We Really Existed and We Really Did This. It’s a conversation in which David wrestles with faith and theology, and searches for signs of hope in the increasingly chaotic times we live in. As you’d expect from David, it’s a classic, full of deeply reflective, insightful and challenging observations.

Interview starts at 4m 25s


BOOKS

Sympathy for Jonah: Reflections on Humiliation, Terror and the Politics of Enemy-Love

WEBSITE

Bandcamp

QUOTES

“It’s an album about living in a moment of history which feels like after one paradigm has collapsed, and before another one’s begun – a paper thin moment between worlds. There’s a sort of weird eye of the storm calm about this moment in some respects. It’s also a time of massive tension. It’s a moment of history. The demands of the past (that’s collapsing, and doesn’t want to collapse) are raging at you… Meanwhile you’re also being pulled in the other direction by the demands and imperatives of what the future’s looking like – the huge problems there are and the ways that we’ve created and done things that make the world work completely differently. You can’t dis-invent that. It’s the weird, eerie, quiet stress of this moment in history.”

“When the world doesn’t work like it used to, I think we freak out, we have this existential crisis… you have this big lurch to the right… to try and hold on to a past that’s ebbing away. It’s trying to resuscitate something that’s dying in your arms. Meanwhile the future becomes networked and integrated… and the shadow that looms over all this is that… we’ve created a climate situation that changes everything. We can’t predict what it’s going to do. We’re not sure that we can stop it … so you’re in this frozen panic moment. You’re not compelled to move yet because it hasn’t hit the fan but you also know that it’s upon you so you don’t feel able to carry on with life as normal. That’s part of the picture.”

“You can’t really have newness and life if you won’t have lament… you do hear a lot of talk about it these days… there is this sort of emotional imbalance gradually created over time that we’re not making space for sadness to happen.”

Natalie Collins is a gender justice specialist, who speaks, writes and trains on issues of violence against women and wider gender injustice.

In trying to make sense of her own experience of domestic abuse – and the fact that over the course of a lifetime over a quarter of women experience domestic abuse – Natalie began to ask questions about the patriarchal nature of our society (and Church) and how this shapes the way men view women and themselves. 

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Jemimah McAlpine reflect on their own experiences of patriarchy and how it has shaped their faith and lives.

Interview begins at 10m 44s

Image provided by Natalie Collins. Used with permission.

BOOKS

Out of Control: Couples, Conflict and the Capacity for Change

WEBSITE

Natalie Collins: Talking & Writing about Abuse, Exploitation & Gender

QUOTES

“So much of Christian perspectives on forgiveness are about denial. You know, Jesus says we should ‘count the cost before we follow him.’ And I think ‘counting the cost’ around forgiveness is really important. Unless we have fully acknowledged what someone has done to us, we’re not really in a position to go on that journey of forgiveness.”

“I think it would be great if we could have about 2000 years where we generally – as a consensus – all Christians decide that God’s a woman for a couple of thousand years. Then we could maybe even move onto ‘gender neutral’ God after that.” 

In the beginning, I had a box. It started out small, in black and white with hard edges. As I grew and experienced new things, my box grew too. I decorated it with colour, and as I pressed against the walls, they moved outward. There was room to breathe, to expand. I grew to be happy with my box. It was safe and secure. Everyone I knew and loved was in the box too. We rejoiced in our box-ness. We felt sad for those who were outside the box. The box wasn’t perfect, but it was ours – everything I had ever known. 

Image used with permission.

But one day, the bottom of the box fell out from under me, and suddenly I was, for the first time, outside​. I didn’t want to be outside; I had loved my box. I was angry and afraid, disoriented. I tried to go back inside, but it didn’t look the same anymore, and it felt claustrophobic after the expanse of outside. I didn’t want to stay in the box as it was, but I didn’t want to be outside either. And so I sat, half in and half out, wondering if I’d find another box that would fit. 

I can pretty much pinpoint the exact moment that my box started to break. Or perhaps more accurately, it was a crack in the foundation, which eventually, with pressure, caused the floor to give way. The hospital room was dark as I stared up at a screen and saw a tiny baby with no heartbeat; I should have been three months along. It was a moment where everything shattered, one of those defining moments that alters the trajectory of your life. That trauma ushered in a period of intense pain, an anxiety disorder and ultimately the dismantling of my faith as I knew it. 

To begin at the beginning, I grew up conservative evangelical-ish, my formative years spent at a Baptist church in Southern Africa before moving to England in my early teens. My early Christian years taught me about the goodness of God and the kindness of community – but also who was in and out, the rules to follow. It was later on in my teenage years, through experiences like Soul Survivor and going to a small, vibrant church at university, that I really felt the ​presence​ of God. Being a Christian then, felt inspiring and exciting. It gave me purpose and belonging and life made sense. 

Yet it was suffering that changed everything, years later. As I battled anxiety and grief over my lost baby, I felt God’s presence so closely around me. Yet it didn’t change my circumstances. And it was ​that ​that changed everything​– ​when prayer didn’t work and didn’t seem to make a difference, when all the answers I had no longer made sense to me. I felt an intense anger that cut me to my core as I raged at God, at church, at Christianity. 

Once I pulled that thread, everything else started to unravel. I listened to new voices with different theologies and suddenly I wasn’t so sure about anything. Questions which had never bothered me about life, the universe and everything felt more prescient. ​Why ​did God create us? Did I believe in hell? Was Christianity the only truth? Some days I wasn’t 100% sure I believed in God at all. I still miss my box – my easy, comfortable, has-most-of-the-answers faith. I get mad at the box, at the people who have never left it. I know plenty of others who have experienced intense suffering but have not deconstructed their faith. If anything, it’s made them more sure, and I envy them. But at the same time, I’m not sure I’d change anything. My faith is different now, but it’s still there. There’s a new depth to it, despite the uncertainty. I love my church and there’s plenty that I love about Christianity, but I don’t feel fully ​in it. It feels as though I’m still in the in-between, half in and half out of the box. I don’t pray a whole lot, and I don’t read the Bible. I’m still angry in ways that I can’t completely understand, angry at things I believed that I no longer hold to be true. But after everything, it’s my experience of Jesus that has remained. I’m not sure about much else, but Jesus I’m pretty sure about. When I walk into my garden or I’m out in nature, I feel the wind blow against my skin and I sense the Spirit. I long for a world and a self made whole, without suffering, all things redeemed and restored. 

Catherine Gale

Rather than based around an interview, this episode is in the style of our Nomad Devotionals, which our patrons enjoy each month.

Ruth Wilde of Christian Peacemaker Teams reflects on the practice of “getting in the way”, and John-Philip Newell reflects on a spirituality deeply rooted in the material creation. And we ask what does it look like to become peace makers between humanity and creation? David weaves these reflections together with readings, music and songs.

Image provided by Ruth Wilde and John Philip Newell. Used with permission.

BOOKS

The Rebirthing of God: Christianity’s Struggle for New Beginnings

Listening for the Heartbeat of God: A Celtic Spirituality

WEBSITE

Christian Peacemaker Teams

Martin Newell is a catholic priest who has been arrested over twenty times. His crimes range from criminal damage, trespass, and burglary, for which he has been to prison several times.

All of this has been the result of Martin’s non-violent protests against the arms trade and more recently the government’s inaction on the climate crisis. He believes that now more than ever we need to resist the rules and authorities, as the future of the planet is at stake.

Not only this, but Martin has formed a community with destitute asylum seekers.

After the interview Nomad hosts David Blower, Jemimah McAlpiine and Tim Nash ponder when it’s right to say no to the rulers and authorities? Would they go to prison for their convictions? And how would they go about modelling a community that points to the world to come?

Interview begins at 11m 1s


Image provided by Martin Newell. Used with permission.


WEBSITE

The Passionists

QUOTES

“Poverty, chastity and obedience are disciplines in relation to power, sex and money. And all of us need to engage with those disciplines, I think: obedience to God, chastity in whatever our life situation is, and poverty – at the very least I try to live simply so that others may simply live.”

“As a Christian, for me it’s not about avoiding the suffering of the world, but about putting ourselves – as Jesus did, as God did in Jesus – putting ourselves in the middle of it in order to try and bring some kind of redemption to the world.”

I’ve always lived more inside my head.  Things just felt safer and looked more hopeful in my imagination.  I grew up in the Christian tradition, with those stories of hope, yet it became harder and harder to reconcile them with the world I knew.  Spirituality became an escape from the world rather than a way to be part of it and so my two ‘worlds’ diverged.  Half laziness on my part, and half heavy burden on my shoulders from the obligation of my faith tradition’s beliefs.  It was the beginning of the end.

Image used with permission.

When I emerged from the ashes of the empire I created as a young man, there was a desperate hunger for something real.  I had gone as far as I could with my escape from reality and I could see where it was going.  It was going towards despair, isolation, and loneliness.  It was very tempting at the time to double down on that. To simply let myself slip away into the shadows and be forgotten by a world I didn’t know if I could ever trust or love and just live for the moment.

It has not been a quick process.  Absolute beliefs were easy signposts of where to go but they also allow you to bypass others for whom that road is not a good fit. In finding compassion for my own failures I’ve been surprised to also discover compassion for others.  In acceptance of my own limitations I’ve become more tolerant of the limitations of others. My head was used to being in charge so it was a new experience believing things with my heart as well. But it feels like peace to me when my wild and unruly heart is comforted and invited into choices rather than forced by the domineering logic of my mind.  It just takes time to teach the procedural memory of your body that it can live another way.

I don’t know why I felt compelled to make the choices I did.  Others seem to thrive by following road maps.  All I can assume is that they are trying to find a different place than I am. If I was going to describe it I’d use the same words you might use for exploration.  I learned to sail a boat not to just catch fish, or trade goods, but to go to the places no one had yet been.  I became curious and went off the beaten path into the bush to find God.  I learned a faith there that was not dependant on following instructions but which was more about learning my limitations and discovering my potential.  I’ve seen something there that was more beautiful and healthy than the road maps of others could promise.  A place that is worth staying in.

Since then my faith has become more mystical in nature.  More enchanted and magical.  But it isn’t like the magic I imagined in my youth.  The kind of power that changes the world to suit you.  Instead it feels more like the kind of magic that changes you so that you can enter into the true world and know that it will not hurt you in the ways that matter.  I’m becoming more a part of the world rather than trying to escape it and that feels like getting bigger somehow.  More connected to God through others and through the trust forged by my unique self-imposed wilderness adventure.

It feels good to know where I belong but it also feels good to leave the places I don’t belong.  The sense of freedom to go wherever I desire is very satisfying.  It gives my curiosity freedom to create which is another way to talk about hope.  The sense of choice and the confidence in my power to shape a beautiful yet imaginary future by being more firmly rooted and alive in the present moment.

What do I hope that will look like?

That I can be angry and yet choose how I express it. That I can be sad and feel freedom to let it be heard.  That I can be silly and not be embarrassed about how it looks.  That I can feel hatred and let it go.  That I can feel love and attraction and make healthy choices about it.  That I can do things I’m not good at and my failure will not erode the excitement of trying something new.  That the hard work is becoming more like hard play in that my inner compass directs me more quickly each time I fall apart so that I’m starting to enjoy the journey itself more.

This hope makes my life more fun because it speaks to me of being uniquely qualified to be myself and a part of this world we live in.  Now I would say that my faith is equally defined by my practices as it is by my beliefs. They critique each other and encourage each other to make me feel more real and permanent in this world.  How could I not feel hope when my heart and mind tell me I am an eternal creature slowly becoming more alive as the fear of death subsides. It’s just exciting to watch myself and the world around me change and wonder what it will look like tomorrow.

When God inhabits the place I’m in it’s like we experience the world together.  Today I was in a church leadership gathering and there was an invitation to contemplate where Jesus was meeting you in the Eucharist and it was instantaneous. I best saw Jesus manifested in a small but vocal Filipino girl, not the crowd of older white men who had the power.  I tried to play it cool and give it a little time but there wasn’t really any question about it.  If you are invited to the table and you get the chance, you jump at the opportunity to give Filipino Female Jesus some bread and wine because you’re just excited to be in the same room.  I’m not looking so far ahead to find God any longer and maybe that is why I’m finding God more often on the path beside me.  When your eyes change, the view just seems more magical.

– Chris Peters

On this episode we speak with theology professor and climate change activist Timothy Gorringe about the climate crisis. Towards the end of last year the Intergovernmental Panel for Climate Change released a pretty bleak report. In summary, the report said that the situation is much worse than we previously thought, and unless we reduce global carbon emissions to zero by 2050, then by the end of this century the earth will be a very hostile place to live. 

So we ask Prof. Gorringe how we are meant to respond? How can we as individuals radically reduce our carbon footprint? And how can we put pressures on government to move towards creating a carbon neutral society? And we ponder the theology of the potential collapse of human civilisation.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Nick Thorley try to process everything Prof. Gorringe said, and figure out what all this means for the ongoing evolution of their faith and lifestyle.

Interview begins at 22m 50s


Image taken by Tim Nash. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The World Made Otherwise: Sustaining Humanity in a Threatened World

MUSIC

The Soil

QUOTES

“There are lots of people who think I’m right about climate change who think that denial is the key thing. And if you’re in denial, that stems from the fact that the problems are so overwhelming that there’s nothing you can really do about it, so you put your head in the sand. I’m skeptical about the denial proposition, actually. It seems to me that these other things – the priority of pleasure, the inability to understand the magnitude of the crisis that we’re facing – those things are more significant.”

“What’s incumbent on us to find ways to live co-operatively rather than competitively. As a society – as an economy – we’re organized around competition. So, the idea is that competition is good for all of us. A little bit of competition – races in primary school and perhaps even at the Olympics – [is] not such a disaster. But by in large, human beings thrive with co-operation.” 

I like words. I rarely find myself stuck for them. Words have been my friends all my life. I like to talk, to say what I think, to express how I feel through them. I lose myself in books, I love learning languages, to wield new vocabulary like a weapon, testing the heft and the hew of it.

Image used with permission.

And words shaped my faith, the Word of God, I was told, sharper than a sword, contained in the thousands of pages of a book called the bible. Millions of words were written about this book, and thousands of sermons spoken. It was ‘God-breathed’ and ‘useful for instruction’, verses memorised as if the words themselves had magical powers. Prayer was primarily verbal: I was taught to ask, to present my petitions, to confess. When faith was tested, it was to see if you could answer correctly: did you know the right words to speak? Did you have the right verses memorised? Sometimes it seemed we thought God were a puppet master who answered us if we spoke well enough, if we just laid claim to the outcome we wanted with enough vim and vigour, enough urgency, knocking, knocking at the door like the woman with the unjust judge.  We prayed for so many things, and so few of them, if we were honest, ever came good, at least not in the way we asked, despite all the claims to the contrary.  Wars still happened, people still got sick, people still died (because everyone does, in the end).  Miracles that happened, little signs of hope, serendipities and co-incidences, everyday graces, seemed to bear no relationship to what was asked for. Words, words and more words.

At some point in my thirties these words lost their power. Two things happened: Firstly, we went through hard times. Everybody does. Things happened to me that up until then had only happened to other people: serious things that I desperately wanted good outcomes for, but did not dare pray for. What if I prayed and it did not happen? What if my prayers, like so many others, were not answered? I became superstitious about it: to pray overtly might be to invite the opposite of what you wanted to happen. And words became dangerous – the way people prayed could be alienating or hurtful even if their intention was good. Like the time my husband needed an operation for a brain tumour and someone prayed, Lord we don’t need surgeons, we just need Jesus. And I thought, actually, I’d rather have the brain surgeon.  I began to find listening to other people’s prayers unbearable. Words stuck in my throat, and before long I was not praying at all.

Secondly, I began to seriously question the ‘Word of God’ as having authority in and of itself. I think for some people this can be terrifying; for me, this was actually exciting. Rather than trying to squeeze the bible into a doctrinal box that had to be correctly understood, I finally began to read it as I read other books: literately, not literally. I felt there was no end to the richness of what you could unpack if you thought about what was written in terms of when it was written, by, and for whom, what kind of text it was, how radical it was for its time, and how it had been translated. I noticed how the idea of God changed over time. I stopped expecting to find consistency, only stories, and the meanings of these stories began to multiply until they became, for me, big mystical concepts, so fat, and underpinning, I literally Ran. Out. Of. Words.

The good thing is, everything got very quiet. I began to notice the noisiness of the church community I was part of. The restless moving from one item to the next, with barely a pause for breath. The five-piece band, the keyboard pads, the drums, even our prayer underpinned by a constant twanging of guitar. Slowly, slowly I could feel Love pulling me outside, drawing me away from the crowds. Love also tipped me out of my old ways of living: the rush and the bustle and the full list of tasks, and the salary, and pre-occupation. I took redundancy, like a prickly gift – a chestnut if you like, hard to hold, but with a sweet kernel inside, if only I could let it grow. I learned to accept a new diagnosis for a life-long illness, and it made me cherish everything that I still have and can still do.

I suddenly had a lot of time on my hands, and for the first time in my life I discovered what it was like to find a place where I could meet with God. For me it was on the floor between the bed and the window, hidden away. There, I learnt how to spend time in both the absence and the presence of God – to not pray at all, but just to sit. I often imagined myself by a river, a mindfulness exercise where you imagine your thoughts as leaves drifting away, and I wondered, where is God? And then I began to notice the feeling of Jesus sitting right next to me, watching the river with me. So that’s what I do now. I sit there, and I put things in the river, before Jesus. No one can see or hear me do this. Sometimes I just do it in my mind, but I have found it liberating to actually use gestures – to place whatever it is, with my hands, in that imaginary river. Sometimes the thing is so heavy I can hardly lift it, sometimes it’s something I’m angry about and I can hurl it in, or it’s sticky and I can’t get it out of my chest, I have to tug at it, or pull it off in layers. Sometimes doing this will give me a picture of who or what I’m praying about: the time my daughter was anxious about her first school trip away from home, I placed her very tenderly like a tealight in a paper flower and watched her float away.

The Loving Kindness meditation originally found in Buddhism (thanks to The Liturgists for bringing this practice to me) has also become profound for me. I find it overwhelmingly beautiful.  The format is simple. You sit for a while and centre your breathing, and then slowly pray through the same prayer, each time with a different person in mind, starting with yourself, and then moving to someone you respect deeply; someone you care for; someone who is a stranger; and someone with whom you have trouble.  They are like five movements in a symphony, each one building on the last.

Each time I pray this way, God brings different people to mind: people from my past, and people from my present. Praying for the complete stranger, the sandwich seller or the homeless person I walked by that day, has been humbling. It is growing compassion in me. One time, I felt the ‘one with whom I have trouble’ was my grandpa who died several years ago, a rather cantankerous individual. In that moment I found myself wanting and able to forgive him, letting him go. Greeting him in my mind, and holding him there, looking him in the eyes as if he were still alive, was deeply moving, and I felt a relief from a burden I hadn’t realised I was carrying.  I feel I could pray like this for ever.

There is a song I grew up with that went, “let me have my way among you; do not strive, do not strive”. So, if any of you have, like me, run out of words, may you know that God is always with you, anyway. And if you wonder if prayer changes outcomes, please know that I’m also still not sure. The only thing I am sure of is that prayer changes me. But that’s worth a start.

– Alice Huntley

Rather than our usual interview format, in this episode we’re hosting a conversation. We’ll be listening in on Chine McDonald and Azariah France Wiliiams as they discuss their understanding and experience of blackness and how that has shaped their identity, their place in society and the way they relate to God and Church.

It’s an authentic, moving, and inspiring conversation, and it was a real privilege to be able to listen in.

Interview begins at 10m 


Images provided by Chine McDonald & Azariah France Williams. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Reconstructing the Gospel: Finding Freedom from Slaveholder Religion

I’m Still Here: Black Dignity in a World Made for Whiteness

Natives: Race and Class in the Ruins of Empire

White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism

Is God Colour-Blind?: Insights From Black Theology For Christian Ministry

White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack

Why I’m No Longer Talking to White People About Race

Brit(ish): On Race, Identity and Belonging

Learning to be White: Money, Race, And God in America

Enfleshing Freedom: Body, Race, and Being

QUOTES

“I spent a month on the island of Nevis working with the Anglican church and all the priests are Black. And so…when you’re the majority group, you just think of yourself as you. You’re just free to be a human. I was just free to be Azariah then with my other priestly colleagues. Whereas here, I do feel like I’m ‘Azariah the Black priest.’ And I’ve got to work against things.” 

“People talk about ‘code switching’…how we adjust our language, our postures to who we think is the dominant in the setting. And so I’m just aware of how often I’ve been shifting myself in order to accommodate what I perceive to be the cultural norms of a setting instead of feeling at ease and free to bring my whole self.” 

Janet Williams joins us to discuss apophatic theology and spirituality. I know, it doesn’t sound like the most riveting topic. But trust me, it’s essential listening for anyone who’s been through some kind of deconstruction, faith evolution or dark night of the soul, anyone who’s interested in mysticism, or who’s gown tired and disillusioned with the Church’s obsession with trying to tightly define God.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Jemimah McAlpine reflect on Janet’s experiences and insights and ponder whether they shed new light on their own evolving faith journeys.

Interview starts at 11m 32s


Image provided by Janet Williams. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Seeking the God Beyond: A Beginner’s Guide to Christian Apophatic Spirituality

QUOTES

“We’re not saying that there is no truth in ideas about God that we might have to go beyond. Of course there’s truth in them – but it’s partial. And we need to be really careful about getting stuck on partial truth, because God is dynamic. Augustine calls Him, ‘Ever ancient, ever new,’ and we can lose that sense of newness.”

“Almost certainly, the shoes that Moses was wearing were the skins of some other animal. And so my understanding of, ‘take off your shoes because you’re standing on holy ground,’ is you have to stand before God in your own skin – not covered in somebody else’s. And an awful lot of those certainties about God…they’re like somebody else’s skin, aren’t they?”

I have a confession: I find it infinitely easier to find God in fiction than I do in church. It may sound obvious, but a book doesn’t have to be by a Christian author to be able to strike at heart of what Love is. One of the most compelling stories of relationship I’ve read recently was a science-fiction work called the Dreamhealersby M.C.A. Hogarth, where two aliens establish a telepathic emotional bond. This is just one example of many. Other favourites include Marilynne Robinson (Gilead, Home), Stephen Lawhead (Empyrion, Pendragon), and C. S. Lewis (Narnia, Till they have faces). All these works manage to convey the compassionate and frustrating love of a God who demands authentic relationship and submission, whereas my experience of church has frequently, although not always, been a little lonely.

Maybe I find God in fiction because, like the divine, a story is a nebulous thing. You might think it would be easy to grasp onto, to carve up, identify, categorise. We divide it into plot, character, setting, and talk about first-person narratives, poetic structure, and underlying ideology. But whatever attempt is made to cement meaning, it is almost always immediately frustrated. My own experience of academia has given me insight into the sheer volume of conclusions that can be drawn from a single written work. Arguments rage between scholars as to how we should receive a text: is the author dead, or does their intent still remain within ancient words awaiting discovery? (Frequently ignoring the, perhaps, more prescient question: does anyone care?)

I, for my own part, am interested in what happens in the space between the words being uttered and their reception by another. My doctoral thesis consisted of 85,000 words on a single epic poem, Statius’ Thebaid, its premise being that interaction with others, loving or violent, is what makes an individual who they are. Isn’t that what all story is? An attempt to close the impassable “gap” between our “selves” and an “other”? Perhaps that’s why I find telling my own story so difficult – I am anxious that my words make it safely across. I don’t wish to be misunderstood.

I wonder if God feels the same?

If you’ve got this far into my meandering thoughts, thank you. I think what I’m trying to begin to talk about is this: being a Christian is really all about how we negotiate the space between ourselves and others. One of the ways this has played out in my own life is, rather embarrassingly, my inability to pray for someone without crying. I simply need to put my hand on someone’s shoulder and the tears begin to build. Soon I am rendered a soggy mess whilst the person on the receiving end is in all likelihood absolutely fine. This is particularly infuriating as I really dislike displays of emotion. When I was a young teenager I used to judge girls who would cry in school, deeming them emotionally manipulative. Yet, for some annoying reason the single most frequent way I experience the Holy Spirit is through a debilitating wave of compassion. Crying makes me vulnerable, it leaves me exposed.

However, as fearful as I am of the space between the ‘I’ and the ‘non-I’, I am even more afraid of those who ignore it. When we refuse to acknowledge the difference between ourselves and others we can end up erasing the other entirely. It is far better to be misunderstood than to destroy. Sometimes I have been on the receiving end of an imposed idea of what a Christian should look like, made to soften and change in order to fit an ideological mould. When I refused it seemed that relationship was no longer available. Yet, my hope lies in the fact that more and more it seems that small pockets of Church seem to be embracing expressions that seek to maintain difference. It is with friends whom I trust that I can be myself without fear. In small gatherings I can allow myself to love others and share my story, just as God, whom I find in the stories of others, loves me.

– Joscelyn Cole

It was 10 years ago that Nomad first uploaded an episode. 10 years!! So to celebrate we’d like to give you a gift as a thank you for all your support and encouragement. But what to give the beloved listener to mark such a special occasion? How about a 3 hour 40 minute Q&A marathon episode with the whole gang, Jemimah McAlpine, David Blower, Tim Nash, Nick Thorley, and Dave Ward.

If you’d like to give a gift back to us, why not leave us a nice review on whichever podcast app you use and on our Facebook page.


Images taken by Dave Fry. Used with permission.


QUOTES

“I do massively overprepare. But you gotta remember, it’s not just about preparing for an interview. I’m trying to figure out, What does this mean for me? I mean, that’s kind of the essence of Nomad, really. How do I want to live my life? How am I going to respond to this? So that’s why I put so much effort into it. I want it to be a good interview. I want people who listen to benefit from it. But actually, it’s shaping my life as I go through that process as well.” 

“If I could afford it, I’d send everyone noise-cancelling headphones. I don’t spend hours editing this stuff so that someone can listen to it with earbuds on a treadmill.” 

“I feel like most people, if you talk about deconstruction, talk about their faith as really positive, exciting, discovering new things – I mean there is that dark-night-of-the-soul experience of everything kind of unraveling or the rug being pulled from beneath your feet, but then there’s also – simultaneously, often – an opening up or a discovery.”

“I don’t want to say that I’ve changed my mind on something because that implies that I’m certain about something, like I’ve changed my mind from ‘this’ to ‘that.’ It’s more like the whole way of looking at it has changed and I’m much more holding things loosely and wanting to practice rather than sort out my beliefs.” 

“When I think back to ‘Tim’ ten years ago, I just wasn’t a very good listener. … I think I kind of had my beliefs and I defended those beliefs. I think one of the big shifts for me in doing Nomad is just learning to listen to people, to hold what you believe lightly and to really listen … to think, what’s the truth here, what’s God saying here, what can I learn here, how can this move me on?”  

My body has been through some difficult times already. There came a point where people began remarking: “Of course, this happened to you. If it’s extreme/random/unlikely, it’s going to happen to Ashleigh.”

Now, this looks harsh written out. At first it didn’t feel harsh; it felt true. And the people who say this do not mean to be hurtful AT ALL. In fact, I think they are trying to offer a kind of witnessing. They are not wanting to dismiss that, in some lights, I’ve had more than my “fair share.” [Although there is no “fair share”, in reality.]

Image used with permission.

And I can’t blame them. I have lived with an attitude toward my body that ranges from resignation to infuriation. When I was 11-12, I developed a mysterious infection that turned out to be a kind of pneumonia transmitted by cats.… The year I was 18, I had a series of concussions from skiing and sports that culminated in a camping concussion and resulted in an extremely difficult head injury. I had to put off university for a year because I couldn’t make simple decisions or make sense of a computer screen. [Thankfully, my brain fully healed with the exception of number retention: a VERY minor although often humbling blip to live with.] Just before Jordan and I got married, I developed mono: a totally typical thing for a college student living with how many?—four?—other young women in a two bed apartment and not getting ANY sleep. BUT. Wait for it. My liver and my spleen swelled up to such extraordinary sizes that my stomach collapsed, and all sorts of specialists paraded through my room to poke and prod and look at my “most unusual case.” Our wedding was postponed and we took a wheelchair on our honeymoon. Each of my pregnancies has involved HG, to increasing extents. My second trimester with Nienna was complete bedrest because there was a growth which made losing our baby the likely scenario (thank God, she is now a thriving eight year old! I have not had to experience that searing, unbelievable loss.) During my pregnancy with Cressida, I developed kidney stones. Again, not uncommon during pregnancy. But mine blocked my ureter, causing my left kidney to rupture, and I was close to being septic. [Don’t do that. It’s really hellish.] When I was at the end of my second trimester with Skandar, I had an appendectomy, which, amazingly, is not super uncommon.

Neither is cancer. Cancer is very, very, common. We are all living so close to it.

However, I am part of a new cohort of otherwise healthy men and women in their twenties and thirties developing colorectal cancer. I fit none of the risk factors. In the past, the profile of someone with my type of cancer and stage would be at least a couple decades older than myself — until recently, when people like me began showing up in higher numbers, raising many questions in the medical community.

Now that you have a litany of my strange medical issues, you can see why someone might say, “Of course this is happening to Ashleigh.”

The unintended side-effect of that attitude is that I began to feel this shame towards my body. I began to feel an unhealthy resignation. Rather than flexibility and adaptability, this kind of observation began to make me feel like giving up.

Child-birth and running were two of the first things that began to help me change my perspective. Not only could I come face-to-face with hard things — I could choose how to engage them, and I could kick ass. Ask my older brothers: there has always been this side to me that just won’t give up, even when all the chips are down and it’s clear I’ve lost. [Such as when a boy 4-6 years older than me was sitting on top of me, pounding me, and I’d still be trash-talking.] When I started giving that side of me its voice, I began seeing all these things as things I’ve overcome and I began to see myself as strong, rather than as weak and shameful and not enough. After Nienna was born, the subsequent health issues each began teaching me and leading me towards a lot of beautiful truths and experiences. Even as they totally tore me down. I am NOT saying I floated blissfully through these events. These beauties are the beauties that come out of engaging with the pain, and letting others join me.

In the first weeks after dropping the bomb “I have stage IV colorectal cancer” on my dear ones, our little family was flooded with so much kindness and support. Some of the first face-to-face encounters that stand out to me include those, who, like my father-in-law, have seen me walk (or army crawl) through health storms before. He hugged me and told me, “You are brave. You can do this. You are one of the strongest women I know.” There were other types of first responses that also have really helped and stood out, but, the ones that relate to my strength and courage are the ones that touch on this new thing:

Compassion for my body.

You see, one of the side effects of seeing myself as strong and brave, is that I can look at my body from a position of agency and strength, rather than of resignation and shame.

Our dear friends sent Jordan and I to a day at Thermëa Spa (oh, heaven!), and my sister-in-law provided child care. One of the spectacular gifts of Jordan and I both identifying as Nines on the Enneagram, is that we can really relax together. Towards the end of the day, Jordan asked me how I was doing. I told him that what kept reverberating around my heart and head was, “My poor body,” along with other sentences of kindness, compassion, and gentle-heartedness towards this cancerous, toxin-filled body.

Since then, I’m trying to make this a discipline; to have my inner dialogue be filled with compassion for my body. If I can’t muster it in my own voice, I hear that of my Jordan, my dear friend Karla, and my dear friend Anna (especially when I want a little attitude with the compassion.)

It took a long time and a lot of struggling to get to a place where I can meet my flawed, hurting, sick, failing body with compassion and kindness. To see myself as having strength beyond the confines of health issues I cannot control. I would ask you to try to see yourself— whatever that struggle — with compassion. It doesn’t make the problems go away, but it does help sustain us through the hardship. I hope it can make me look a little more like the God of Love who died for this body of mine.

– Ashleigh Dueck

Edwina Gateley is a mystic, and a social activist. Her life has been a rhythm of extended periods of prayer and solitude (including 9 months of silence in a caravan in a forest!) and activism (including establishing a mission agency that has sent hundreds of people into missions work around the world, and working with prostitutes on the streets of Chicago).

Through both her radical activism and deep contemplation Edwina’s understanding and experience of God and Church has been radically challenged and reshaped.   

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Jemimah McAlpine reflect on Edwina’s journey, how they now understand Church and mission, and how they now describe and relate to God. 

Interview begins at 11m 50s

Image taken by Tim Nash. Used with permission.

BOOKS

In God’s Womb: A Spiritual Memoir

I Hear a Seed Growing

There Was No Path – So I Trod One

QUOTES

“Our calling is to journey on faithfully and as we do that, God grows. God gets bigger until our definitions are no longer big enough for a divine presence that we can’t even begin to understand.”

“I think we’re all here for our own conversion – wherever you are, whatever you’re doing. We’re not here to change anyone. We are not able to change anyone. We’re only able to change ourselves. Our task here, I believe, on this globe is to grow into God – is to grow into a reflection of God’s presence here on Earth. And that means that we must constantly be open to being stretched, to allowing God to give us a deeper vision – a wider vision – as Jesus had.”

It was the mid 1990s. A new teen, Jonathan, had joined the church youth group. He was cool; he had a black leather jacket. Jonathan was clean cut, held passionate opinions and was sensitive. We became friends. He was different to my other friends. Even though I was only 17 I was one of the junior leadership team. Jonathan asked if he and I could have a chat. Mum and I invited him for dinner and after the meal he came up to my bedroom which was my hang out space. I put on some music and we both sat on the edge of my bed, though I could see something was weighing on his mind. He sat, head in hands for a while, then looked up and said, ‘I think I’m gay.’ I immediately moved from the bed to a chair.

Image used with permission.

I was fairly spotty and a little overweight, but my first thought was, ‘does he fancy me?’ I was horrified. I felt revulsion. He remained frozen and afraid. Jonathan continued to describe the realisation of liking other guys. I was out of my depth. He had come to me for help but I had no help to offer. I dug through my mental archives for something useful.  I had heard it preached that ‘God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.’ That didn’t feel fit for purpose. No I was now in full defence mode. I thought his sin would lead to contamination, not just of me but of the youth group and the church. I saw him as an interloper.

If I had taken a breath perhaps I would have seen he was looking for God’s assurance. He was overwhelmed by thoughts and feelings and wanted some guidance, or some normality. I advised him to talk to the youth pastor about it. I was struggling to know how to (cliche alert), ‘hate the sin and love the sinner.’ Twenty five years later, that moment still plays on my mind. He didn’t stay with our youth group for much longer. The gossip of his sexuality began to enter our conversations around the tuck shop. There was a celibate gay man in the youth group. He, however, was revered as a different species. He had tamed his desire, overcome temptation and had chosen to bear his cross. By contrast, Jonathan was lost as he seemed unrepentant. Once he had left we could breathe easily as we were safe. He would not be a problem anymore.

Skip ahead a number of years. I was a church planter, and known within a large church network. I had found myself beginning to question the traditional evangelical view of marriage being exclusively heterosexual. The church I had planted was part of this network and I had been absent from a number of gatherings. My doubts, and desire to avoid conflict had led to me slowly backing away without explanation. A member of the network had been sent to find out why I wasn’t showing up. We went out for coffee and she began a familiar script I’d heard before. She said: ‘Churches in this network are like family and friends, and you and your church are definitely family.’ She had a warmth to her tone. I decided to take a risk. I falteringly said: ‘I am unsure what I feel about same sex relationships.’ Without skipping a beat she said ‘Maybe you and your church are in the ‘friends’ category.’ In taking a tentative step towards her, she took a huge step backwards away from me. In a tiny way, my little identification with the ‘other’ made me into the ‘other.’ She didn’t physically move away from me, as I had done to the young man years before, but we realised the ideological chasm between us.

My uncertainty was born of shifting theological perspectives. I began to read scripture not as the last word on a theme but sometimes the first word. I encountered broader systems of interpretation of the Bible which led to me revising my view of the cross, sin, and scripture itself. The problem was that as a church leader people came to me for answers. I don’t think they expected me to have as many questions as they did. For the longest time I hid my personal civil war between holding a perspective of faithfulness to scripture, versus responding lovingly to those whose sexuality I had been taught and believed was sinful and deviant. I had sat in prayer meetings where normally kind characters would in prayer denounce the evil spirit of homosexuality. I heard same sex attracted people denounce themselves, in what sounded to me like deep shame and self-hatred.

Then, whilst ministering in my last church, a couple moved into an apartment besides the church. One man arrived first and I, being neighbourly, popped over and welcomed him to the area. A couple of months later he invited me to meet his partner who’d arrived from abroad. When I saw another man standing beside the first man hand in hand, and obviously in love, my theory and theology broke down in the light of the love I witnessed and felt in and from them. Over time, hearing their stories of rejection by the churches they grew up in shook the final doubts I had. Bible verses could be used to justify God’s displeasure at homosexual orientations. Bible verses could also be used to support faithful loving relationships between two people regardless of their gender. I decided to lean towards, learn about and eventually adopt the second narrative.

There is a cost. For a spell I was an occasional lecturer for a theological college. Their statement of beliefs sees marriage as heterosexual only. I shared my changing perspectives with colleagues. I learnt the college had a red line for its team. Their policy was that if I felt same sex marriage was something God might approve of I had probably moved too far away from the college ethos. Over my time of teaching there I came to see same sex marriage as equal marriage, and I stepped down. It’s painful to recount this as I deeply appreciated their welcoming me into the academic community, and believing in what I had to bring. I simply wish the welcome would have be extended even further.

I have a number of close friends who felt/feel me to be lost. Earnest friends who love me have tried to talk me out of my new position and I have felt a distancing from people I have known for years. I left the church I planted. I searched for another church where there was an openness to exploring a positive view of equal marriage. I sincerely hope to guide my new congregation towards becoming a member of the Inclusive Church network. The network have the following statement of intent:

“We believe in inclusive Church – church which does not discriminate, on any level, on grounds of economic power, gender, mental health, physical ability, race or sexuality. We believe in Church which welcomes and serves all people in the name of Jesus Christ; which is scripturally faithful; which seeks to proclaim the Gospel afresh for each generation; and which, in the power of the Holy Spirit, allows all people to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Jesus Christ.”

Postscript

Whilst writing this piece the heaviness of the anecdote of Jonathan in the youth group caused me to rifle through Facebook, sifting through friends of friends until I found him. We became friends on Facebook. I sent a message to him and asked his forgiveness. I was relieved to learn he didn’t hold it against me. I was delighted to learn he is in a loving partnership with another man. I hope in time he and his partner could happily attend a church I lead and feel at home in God’s and my love.

– Azariah France-Williams

Brian Zahnd is back on the show. This time we’re chatting with him about the themes raised in his book Postcards From Babylon. In it he takes aim at the toxic relationship between Church and Empire, and the religion that has emerged from it, which he calls Americanism. This religion has its own liturgies, gods and sacrificial systems, nearly all of which stands in direct opposition to how the early church understood what it meant to follow Jesus.

So how are followers of Jesus meant to respond? What does it mean to be Church? What spiritual practices can help us stay awake to what feels like an ever more toxic political and religious environment? What does it mean to be a Christian in the age of Trump?

After the interview, Nomad hosts David Blower and Tim Nash reflect on these and many other questions.

Interview begins at 16m 26s


Image provided by Brian Zahnd. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Water to Wine

Postcards from Babylon: The Church In American Exile

QUOTES

“There’s a difference between empires and nations. God loves nations – with their diversity and their cultures and their languages and all of that – but God is opposed to empire. Because the very thing that empires claim for themselves – divine right to rule other nations, manifest destiny to shape history according to their agenda – is the very promise that God has made to His Son. So, empires always – without exception – posit themselves to be a challenge and rival to the sovereignty of God.”

“I find it hopeful that I’m meeting a new generation of energetic believers who are content to do something small for Jesus. I grew up in the era of youth rallies. You know, ‘Go out there and do something big for God.’ How about, ‘Go do something little for God.’ There’s all that ‘change the world’ rhetoric. If we say that our primary task is to ‘change the world for Christ,’ then I think ultimately we find the temptation to reach for the means of coercion overwhelming.”

Glancing up at the screen I register the song lyrics – ‘You’ve never failed me yet’ – and experience a familiar surge of frustration and pain. I’m sat at the edge of the room with a notebook, so I start journaling:

There’s a part of me that would like to shout ‘bollocks’ to that…
And yet – you’ve led me through and out to a place that is better in every way…
And yet – the manipulation and bullying were carried out in your name AND YOU HAVE NOT DISTANCED YOURSELF FROM THEIR ACTIONS AND WORDS.
That feels like failing me.

Image used with permission.

This is me, aged 43, at the church I attend with my husband and teenage sons. If my younger self could see me now, she’d be concerned. I can imagine her puzzled frown as she tries to understand why I’m sat on the floor at the back of a church meeting, no arms in the air, no heartfelt singing – instead responding to worship songs with naughty words. How did a contender for ‘Most Enthusiastically Committed to all things Church’ get to this place?

I’m not always quite sure how I got here either. For a while the process was remembered in a mish-mash of frozen emotions and jumbled images. I’m still working on it in therapy but, a further four years down the line, I can put the pieces together much more coherently.

Since birth I attended charismatic or Pentecostal churches, enjoying shared faith and a profound sense of belonging. Eight years ago, whilst working for a church, I noticed my stress levels rising as I experienced unusual levels of conflict and drama with the relatively new leader of the church. Things built up until two years later, anxiety levels caused me to cry during a planning meeting. In the following days the leadership told me they believed God was asking them to give me the ‘opportunity’ to resign from my job. Exhausted, I agree.

We remained in the church and my husband began ministerial training. However, we seemed to be in a continual cycle of conflict and appeasement with the leader. During that time, I read a book on childhood and adult bullying and felt as if I finally understood what was happening. Looking for a way forward, I spoke with people I trusted with a view to raising the issues with the leader and working towards a healthier relationship… what could possibly go wrong?!

It turned out, quite a lot and approximately a year later my family and I left our church of 21 years. By then our friends, truly loving, wonderful people, were questioning my character and sanity. Some of them had rebuked me – ‘telling me ‘in love’ that I should ‘honour, respect and submit’ to the man I had begun to think was manipulating and bullying us. Others were no longer speaking to me. My husband was no longer training to be a minister and we had not been permitted to serve on any team for some months. I was terrified that I was ruining my sons’ spiritual and emotional lives. My mental health was plummeting, alongside my sense of faith in myself, others and, even though I desperately wanted to protect it, my trust in God.

During that final year though, I started training to be a counsellor at Waverley Abbey College. I was spending long weekends in a beautiful mansion in Surrey, connecting with like minds, exploring counselling psychology and the areas of interface with spirituality and faith. Combined with antidepressants and a mind-bogglingly supportive husband, I believe this ongoing learning experience prevented me from losing my life to anxiety and depression.

On the course were Christians with a wide range of beliefs, some of which I shared, but many of which I’d thought were incompatible with a ‘real Christian faith’. As we were being encouraged to critique pretty much everything, I started evaluating the legitimacy of terms such as ‘spiritual authority’, carrying on questioning, until even the existence of hell was up for grabs.

I was also delving into ethics, issues around power imbalance, and learning to truly respect and promote the autonomy and agency of another person. Why oh why, I wondered, was this something I had rarely witnessed in pastoral care and church leadership? And although my experience was on the milder end of the spectrum, I also devoured everything I could find about spiritual abuse, narcissistic leadership and recovery for those who had been a part of unhealthy religious systems.

And so, over the next few years, plenty of unravelling, learning and change took place. Whilst new friendships have emerged, I still grieve those I’ve lost and sometimes I long for the old security of evangelical certainty. My faith is fragile but somehow it exists and I’m hopeful that it will develop and grow in healthy directions. Mostly I’m hoping that I will get closer to understanding the nature of God’s love and what it means to be made in their image.

With that in mind I started to wonder what it would be like if God joined me…

We sit together with that sense of betrayal and it’s OK.
God’s not asking me to change how I feel and definitely not demanding I repent.
We can look at this together.

“Of course you feel betrayed. Why wouldn’t you? I know how deep that pain goes and I know it hurts just to look at it. You don’t have to, but if you want, you can express it all to me. Rant, swear, scream if you need to. There’s no rush. You don’t need to apologise. I’m not angry, but I understand if you’re angry with me. I’m so very sorry.”

What if that was God’s response? What if that was how S/He met with every abused heart? And what if there was space in every faith community for this sense of betrayal to be heard and accepted?

– Joy Brooks

It’s that time of the year again! So we thought we’d offer up a Christmas themed Devotional for you all. Brad Jersak talks a bit about how the Nativity is understood in the Eastern Church, we reflect on the feminine in the salvation story, and Danielle Wilson shares reflections on her time spent in a refugee camp in Greece. And of course, all this is woven together with music and song by David Blower.


Images used with permission.


WEBSITE

Global Aid Network

QUOTES

“The early church fathers would talk about how the life of God would encounter the curse of death in the human condition. When the two come together, instead of the human condition defiling God somehow, God heals the human condition in that first cell. And so, the saving event isn’t waiting for Jesus to die some day, it begins already in that moment when divinity heals humanity.”

“Amongst the hideous sights and smells around the camp — you’d often catch raw sewage or garbage — but amidst those smells, there’d be these beautiful smells of cooking [food], where people are eating and sharing food with one another. It’s the smell and taste of home that they’re recreating in the camp, creating community, and it was also a way that we saw they would create bridges with one another”

For many of us, the charismatic movement has been a mixed bag of bonkers and blessing. The danger is, of course, that we throw the blessed baby out with the bonkers bathwater! Especially for those of us who have been through some kind of deconstruction, we can easily end up rationalising away anything mystical.

So we asked Brad Jersak to help us think all this through. Brad is a member of the Eastern Orthodox Church and is deeply contemplative. But he’s also a charismatic. So we ask him what the charismatic and contemplative traditions can learn from each other, and whether contemplation can help take some of the crazy out of the charismatic.

After the interview Nomad hosts Tim Nash, David Blower and Nick Thorley reflect on their own experience in Charismatic spaces, and what they’ve kept and rejected as their faith has continued to evolve.

Interview begins at 17m 32s


Image taken by Tim Nash. Used with permission.


BOOKS

A More Christlike God: A More Beautiful Gospel

A More Christlike Way: A More Beautiful Faith

QUOTES

“Faith is about – first of all – the faithfulness of Jesus and us learning usually the hard way to trust that he’s faithful. And that is not drummed up in me. We come to believe that we can trust as we see the faithfulness of God in action. But it’s God initiating. Jesus shows us his faithfulness somehow and I begin to grow and trust around that. It’s not me getting enough faith to put it in the divine vending machine.”

“If God is good and life is random, what does this mean? It means that we still engage in prayer and we still step into ministries that will alleviate suffering in some way or another. But my posture in that is no longer triumphalism. It’s more contemplative surrender.”

I love singing, and have over the years developed a compendious knowledge of Hymns Ancient & Modern, through to a range of current (ish) worship songs.  However, I find myself struggling with a lot of the implicit or explicit theology, particularly as expressed in some of the accompanying graphics on YouTube where Jesus is wafting on clouds, surrounded by angelic hosts.

Image used with permission.

For the past decade or so, I’ve been involved with a charity in my city which supports Refugees and Asylum Seekers.  Service users are supported with advice, representation and hospitality. They range from 16-year-old kids who often have faced hell and high water to arrive in the UK from Calais, through to people whose Asylum claim has been refused and have now become destitute.  In between, there have been countless single people, couples and families escaping horrors we can’t even begin to imagine.  These people want what the rest of us want – a roof over their heads, an income, meaningful work, a future for their kids.  A chance to live free from persecution and bombs.  Once here, they are invariably struggling with innumerable obstacles and difficulties.  When the Home Office (under Theresa May) declared it was looking to create a hostile environment for migrants, they weren’t joking.  In fact, they’ve been extremely successful in this aim, condemning many to live in a climate of misery, uncertainty and fear. I know of one woman who has been waiting 18 and a half years for her asylum application to be resolved.   During most of that time she has had to be dependent on the charity of others, with all the inherent dangers of exploitation and abuse. The hostile environment has succeeded through a lack of care, and insufficient resources to act justly, fairly and humanely towards migrants.

Here I see people stripped down to their basic humanity, without any of the props of money, status or any of the markers we use to identify who is above us and who below in the social hierarchy.  All they have is themselves, and sometimes, if they’re lucky, each other to carry them through each day.  To many they would appear worthless, not worthy of any respect or consideration in their powerlessness and vulnerability. Some will have had status and respect in their own country; some are professional people, but are now unable to practice their profession and use their skills.  All will have been loved by someone. Back home, they are some mother’s son or daughter, often having had to leave behind all family, dead or alive, and those they love.  Often, faith is hugely important, whatever they are calling their God.

Going back to where I started, I wonder, did Jesus put himself in this place, a place of weakness, vulnerability and dependency?   I think he did and for me this Jesus is the one who is the reality, not the King of Kings and Lord of Lords of traditional and popular hymnody.  For me, faith has become recognising this Jesus in others, and trying to work out how we respond.

– Maggie Jones

Enneagram trainer Liz West joins us on the show to talk about this ancient tool for transformation. You may have seen the rather “dodgy” looking enneagram symbol, but don’t be put off. This is an ancient treasure that goes right back to the fourth century desert mothers and fathers who began to discern the things that blocked our relationships with ourselves, with others and with God. And that’s what make the enneagram unique. It doesn’t so much reveal who you are, as the coping mechanisms you’ve developed that have become blockages to your transformation.

After the interview Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Jemimah McAlpine reflect on their their enneagram 5ness, and how it’s shaped their life and faith.

And if all that’s not enough to convince you, head over to patreon or our own membership platform where you can listen in on Tim getting enneagram-ed in a bonus Nomad Extra episode! 

Interview begins at 17m 9s


Image taken by Tim Nash. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Sacred Enneagram: Finding Your Unique Path to Spiritual Growth

The Road Back to You: An Enneagram Journey to Self-Discovery

WEBSITES

Enneagram Institute website

Enneagram Worldwide website

QUOTES

“I think we are encouraged to live in our outer world – what I think of as our outer world. It’s all about what we’re doing and it’s all about our roles and that seems to define our identity. But there’s so much more to us than our gifts and the way we choose to live. There is this inner world which I think needs exploring and the Enneagram is just one of the many tools to explore it. And the reason why it needs exploring is that there are very serious things in our inner world which get in the way of our relationship with God, with other people; and they cause us pain, which is why the desert fathers called these nine things ‘the passions.’”

“The Enneagram – rather than putting people in a box – actually describes the box that we are already in and helps us to get out of that box.”

The archetypal narrative of a Christian often begins with that remembered moment when they first welcomed Jesus into their life as a young person. However, what has instead become the most defining aspect of my life’s journey to date took place in September 2007 – when I was 27 years old and I discovered that my faith was precipitously waning. It was almost like having lost or misplaced something valuable that I once had; something that was deeply important to me, that defined who I was, and that I desperately wanted to find. And though I never fully stopped believing in the existence of God or in the teachings of and about Jesus, my progressively conscious awareness of a disconnect between theoretical doctrine and practical experience manifested itself in what I would describe as a decade-long existential crisis. If I had been doing anything other than full-time vocational ministry in the church at that point in time, I don’t know if I would have felt so conflicted and hypocritical. But the flip-side of being in such a predicament is that it forced me to wrestle through the dis-integration in order to salvage something workable with the negligible faith that remained.

Image used with permission.

Given that my inherited spiritual framework was profoundly Trinitarian, at the core of my unease was (and continues to be) not seeing God as actively involved in the world and our lives. It made me wonder if the divine silence I knew was my fault, or on the other hand, whether God for whatever reason had ceased to speak. After all, if God is presented to us in the Bible as a personal being – who communicated with language to people throughout the history of Israel, who became incarnate in the person of Jesus Christ, and who is said to relate to us still via the Holy Spirit – then one would understandably assume that a “relationship” with God is not only possible, but arguably normative for us as humans. But when prayer was consistently experienced as a non-conversational monologue, when requests for others to not suffer and die constantly went unanswered, when it became evident that other people’s “hearing from God” recurrently seemed to accord only with what they themselves wanted to hear, etc…the cumulative effect of such disenchantments facilitated the razing of my formerly held beliefs to the ground. And unfortunately, there is little room in most churches for open and honest dialogue about questions, uncertainties or even the consideration of alternative perspectives – especially for those in positions of leadership.

So, I largely kept this desolation to myself and assumed that my sense of feeling lost would eventually pass. But since I was still employed by the church, I was duty-bound to figure out some authentic path forward that both acknowledged my doubts and was nonetheless true to those inarguably core Christian principles of mercy, grace and love. It was around this time that I became familiar with the work of people like Brian McLaren, Rob Bell and Peter Rollins, whose writing gave me hope that there might be different yet valid ways of understanding the Judeo-Christian story. Coincidentally, I was then extremely fortunate to reconnect with an old friend from high school, who I spent many hours with over the next number of years – pints of beer in hand – talking through our mutual wonderings about the mysteries of life and faith. And since writing music has always been the most cathartic and genuine way for me to work through difficulties, many songs were inspired by and recorded during those dark days. All of these things helped me to not cross the line into outright apostasy. Yet, it was also quickly becoming clear to me that the necessary evolution of my convictions wouldn’t be well received. In other words, while critics of those who hold beliefs that aren’t entirely “orthodox” may fault so-called “heretics” for not taking the Bible or God seriously enough, though my faith was in flux, I was anything but apathetic – the source of my trouble was that I took my spiritual life very seriously.

As I wrote in one song a few years ago: “I guess nothing is what you need to truly start again.” In many ways, that seems to be where I find myself now – starting over. Or as I’ve more recently heard it described, perhaps this past season of barrenness since 2007 was the vanguard for what is termed a “second naiveté.” Because though I continue to find myself in a space of feeling in-between, unsettled and spiritually adrift, even so the overarching story of the Hebrew Bible and the remembered teachings/example of Jesus make sense to me. Day-to-day, I don’t unwaveringly believe – but I want to. More often than not, my faith in Christ today may sound to others and be experienced by me as much closer to existentialism or deism. However, if I’m honest, I find myself to be in a better place as a Christian than I’ve ever been. I’m less sure about more things and have fewer strictly held beliefs. Yet, this requires me to deliberately choose to have faith in God, which highlights the important notion that trust is not a feeling – it’s a choice. It’s not always possible to proverbially look on the bright side of life. I still do get discouraged and don’t quite know what to do with the practice of prayer. But what has been most encouraging for me in this age of interconnectedness – especially as mediated via podcasts and online communities like this one – is that we’re not alone. For that, I am particularly grateful and this motivates me on my better days to be willing with whatever strength remains to keep fighting the good fight of the faith.

– Mike Powell

Catholic theologian and priest, James Alison joins us on the show to discuss scapegoating. It’s a word we’re all familiar with, but as James explains, it’s through the violence of the scapegoating mechanism that civilisations are built. And, it is through the scapegoating mechanism that the cross heals. It’s a fascinating way of understanding the atonement, especially for those of us disillusioned with models of atonement that require a violent God.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash, David Blower and Nick Thorley try to get their heads round all these new ideas, and ponder how it might shape their evolving faith.

Interview begins at 18m 43s


Image provided by James Alison. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Jesus the Forgiving Victim: Listening for the Unheard Voice

QUOTES

“In any society, in fact we have learnt that our default is the same: there comes a moment in the frenzy of ‘all against all’ when – if we’re lucky – mysteriously it turns into an ‘all against one.’ And no one can quite tell why. No one can tell who’s going to get it. But somebody does.”

“What we have in the crucifixion is God saying: ‘I will come into the midst of your game – I will enter that place of shame, of agony; the place where you cast out other people; the place which the accuser has set up (the accuser being the whisperer behind the lynch) – and I will undo his power by showing that it’s the innocent one that you have killed…What does my love look like? My love looks like my stepping into that place so as to get you out of this bloody scratched disc going round and round and round and playing the same bloody game.’ This is not a non-violent understanding of the crucifixion. You couldn’t have a non-violent understanding of the crucifixion. But it’s an understanding of the crucifixion which attributes no violence to God.”

I’ve always felt that if I had to describe my life in terms of the tortoise and the hare fable, I’m the tortoise.  My spiritual evolution has been slow and steady.

I grew up in the seventies in a denomination where the only way to be saved was by immersion at some ambiguous “age of accountability” and even after baptism, you could fall away at any time.  Grace was seldom given more than lip service and the Holy Spirit was something you got at baptism and never talked about again.  On the most-emphasized sin list: instrumental music, un-submissive women, dancing and lust.

Image used with permission.

My mom believed there were many paths to God, and that dogma was baloney.  She made sure to debunk anything that needed debunking.  This feeling that it was OK to question anything and everything was a priceless foundation. I hear people ask all the time how they should proceed in raising their kids: church? doctrines?  I think about my mom and how none of that mattered nearly as much as the encouragement to question it all.

As a teen, I loved the things of god. My perspective on god and spirituality was broad and ecumenical, but I was a typical teen who wanted to change the world.  I fell in love with a boy from church and married at age eighteen because, well, it’s better to marry than to burn with passion.  We went into ministry in a pretty dysfunctional non-denominational church that felt “radical” and “sold out” compared to the church of my childhood.  During those years, I moved away from the open mindset my mom had raised me with and sunk deep into dogma, thinking that this was a spiritually superior way of being.

My marriage was awful. A counselor I saw gave me an assignment: no “shoulds” for two weeks. Do only what I wanted, with no regard for what was right or wrong.  In essence, it was a grace assignment.  I skipped church.  This seems silly to me now, but it was huge at the time (we were in ministry you see, so I was skipping work too).   My husband took our two girls to church and I stayed in bed.  It was heavenly.  The second Sunday, as I was luxuriating in bed, I began wondering how the people at church whom I loved were doing and wondering what my girls were doing in Sunday School.  I wantedto go to church.  Hm.  Interesting. Up to that point, I had been so focused on what was right, I hadn’t known my own wants and desires.  I was completely disconnected from my heart.  I thought if I removed the law, I would discover that my desires were sinful.  Instead, I discovered they were about the people I loved and the things I loved.   This was my beginning with grace and freedom and next it led to truth.

In my late twenties, I left ministry and became a licensed hypnotherapist and social worker.  My journey at that time was a journey of self-discovery.  Grace had given me the freedom to pursue truth.  I didn’t realize it at the time, but the truth was setting me free.   As I became more and more truthful about who I was, and what I wanted, my marriage fell apart.  After sixteen years of marriage, my husband revealed to me that he was a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, had a sexual addiction and had not been faithful.  It was an excruciating time in my life. I did the religious things to try to cope like prayer and fasting, but my marriage fell apart anyway.  I had done what I thought God wanted.  They had told me if I followed the rules (sexual “purity”, marry a “Christian”, service to god….) my life would be blessed.  God had failed and betrayed me. It was then that I realized that in thinking god had failed me, I obviously felt that what god was about was positive life outcomes.  I had been using god as a vehicle for control and security.  I had to decide if my faith was about control or about love.  I chose love, which meant choosing surrender.

My journey since that time has continued to be about grace and truth, and surrender.  As the years have gone by, life has upped the ante on surrender of control.  Over the last 15 years I’ve had to learn surrender when one of my children was diagnosed with mental illness, and one attempted suicide, and one was raped.  Each time life hits me over the head, I return to the idea of surrendering to the present reality instead of trying to fix it, and I find a freedom in it.   I’ve also been trying to surrender where knowledge is concerned.  I’m a huge questioner still, but I don’t think I’ll find the answers anymore.  I am learning to enjoy the adventure of unknowing.  I’m learning to walk on water, and put to death daily old ideas so new birth can occur.   I don’t know what THE truth is anymore, but I try to connect to MY truth.  I don’t know what god is anymore, but I know what god is to me.  God to me is the logic, the ultimate reality, the life force that creates and sustains reality.  I don’t really understandit, but my contemplative practice is the attempt to connect with the is-ness of this world and receive reality and experience grace in the midst of it rather than raging against it. In doing this, I find there is good wrapped up in evil, light wrapped up in darkness and life wrapped up in death.

I’m a scientist by profession now and love the connections I see between science and faith.  I’m writing about the parallel between evolution in nature and evolution of spirit.  In nature, it is the infinite capacity for error (mutations) on the genome that provides the raw material for life to evolve and thus continue through natural selection.  Spiritually, grace allows for infinite error (everything is permissible) and it is this error that also provides the raw material for human consciousness and spirit to evolve. And evolution is slow and steady.   At least that’s how it has been in my reality.

– Heather Reynolds

Elaine Heath is the perfect person to speak to about the emergence of new expressions of Church. She’s one of those rare people who understands and can navigate the institution (she’s former Dean of Duke Divinity School and an ordained Elder in the United Methodist Church), while at the same time has years of experience in small, experimental, missional communities. She’s a pioneer who through her writing, speaking and retreats, has opened up a space for many others to explore new forms of church a little more safely. So we took the opportunity to pick Elaine’s brain about the joys and heartbreaks of being a pioneer.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and David Blower reflect on the ups and downs of their own church journeys.

Interview begins at 10m 10s


Image provided by Elaine Heath. Used with permission.


BOOKS

God Unbound: Wisdom from Galatians for the Anxious Church

The Mystic Way of Evangelism: A Contemplative Vision for Christian Outreach

QUOTES

“What we’re after here is relationships that help each other participate with God and the world. And it’s not fundamentally about stuff – it’s not fundamentally about money, or giving stuff, or getting stuff. It’s fundamentally about helping people be faithful to God and love God and experience God’s love and be good neighbours – whether they live in an unhoused way or a house or whatever it is.”

“If we can come together around practices rather than dogma – if we can come together around spiritual practices of prayer, discernment, caring for our neighbours – and if we can come together around a spirituality of humility and recognition that we don’t know everything – the formal language for that is “apaphatic spirituality” (what we don’t know) – if we can come together and form some community around that, then…those kinds of practices and that kind of humility are what help us to actually love each other and to be willing to give each other benefit of the doubt. And we can actually be in the world together even if we have really marked differences in our theology and our doctrines. That could help us to get through this time of polarization and it could help to heal the polarization.”

The podcast I was listening to cut out halfway to my Aunt Hilda’s funeral. Like a switch being flicked, I suddenly saw my surroundings. I saw the greyness of the sky, the blankness of the white fields, the flatness of the landscape. Driving through the prairies in wintertime is like wandering the corridors of an abandoned school in summertime: everything is long, straight and empty.

The podcast was an incomplete download. Ugh. I was irritated. I was expecting to be bored in half an hour, but not now. I was heading back to the small conservative Mennonite town where my mother’s people started out. Grunthal, Manitoba is a sweetly named place if you speak German. In English it sounds rather sour. The “green valley” for which the place is named is not there. The name either refers to a ridge that was hauled away for gravel years ago, or it arose from the founders’ homesickness for someplace else.

Image used with permission

I’m not sure what exactly I was expecting of the funeral, but probably some tropes about “going home” that put all the colour someplace distant from here, from this life, this place. I must confess that I did not think of my Aunt Hilda as a colourful person, so I didn’t really believe that she had given her funeral officiants much to work with.

I was wrong on both counts. Aunt Hilda’s funeral blew me away.

My Aunt Hilda never married, and I see now that I had held this against her as something sad, something like a failure. This was a bit of stupid prejudice on my part. I learned at her funeral that Hilda’s singleness was not at a sad state. She had friends and colleagues who became her family and cherished her. She was known by them as someone who was happy, grateful and kind.

It turns out that Aunt Hilda knew how to celebrate life, and her funeral sermon was given by a preacher who knew how to celebrate her. It was the most powerful funeral sermon I think I have ever heard.

Because the preacher shares Hilda’s diagnosis. Gary Martens is a gifted preacher, and he has terminal metastatic colon cancer, exactly the same as Hilda did. Gary can joke, can quote scripture verbatim off the cuff, he can hold an audience and he can tell a story. He began his and Hilda’s story with Hilda’s diagnosis, and his visits to her as her pastor. The plot twist came eight months into Hilda’s treatment, when Gary got his news, and they started hanging out as chemo buddies.

When I die, I hope the homilist is someone who really was my friend, and someone who really knows how to preach. It is something to behold. There was respect, there was honesty, there was grief, and there was a contagious joy over a life well-lived in Gary’s sermon.

And then my people sang.

Say what you will about my people. We are obstinate, slow to change, suspicious of outsiders, often suffocating in our moralism, but we can sing. All the art we denied ourselves, all the colour we drained out of our church windows, all the fun we never had we sublimated into choral singing.

God, it felt good. It made me homesick for church.

It’s funny, you know, because I was looking forward to hanging out with a fellow church castaway after the funeral. Aunt Hilda’s funeral was only half the reason I made the road trip to Grunthal. I probably wouldn’t have gone if Grunthal weren’t also the home of a friend I recently made online via the Nomad Podcast Beloved Listener Lounge. Mike is a recovering evangelical pastor who could no longer toe the party line of the Baptist church where he had been ministering for the past fifteen years. His Instagram handle is closetjudas, which probably tells you most of what you need to know about that. Mike ended up in Grunthal because Grunthal is close to a Bible College where his PhD wife finally landed a gig, just in time for Mike to take a break and not go crazy from officially representing the faith he had been privately deconstructing for years. For now he is a stay-at-home Dad in a town where Halloween rounds with the kids have to be quietly pre-arranged via Facebook, because you don’t want to horrify the wrong neighbour with the fact that you and your three-year-old pink princess and your seven-year-old little superhero dude are out celebrating Satan’s birthday.

So Mike’s place was the cathartic encounter I was really looking forward to, and it really was a terrific visit. Thank you Nomad for helping me find a friend in Grunthal!

We talked about kids, and our stories, and we talked a lot about church. Can’t live with it, can’t live without it. For me and Mike this is not just a frustration of a desire to belong, but a desire to contribute, a desire to lead. Mike strikes me as a pastor of a church that doesn’t exist yet. It was interesting for us to compare notes and see that the hurdles for people like us are in many ways as high in churches on the liberal end of the continuum as they are on the conservative end.

On the conservative side, the admission requirements are drawn up mostly according to what I would call “content.” Does your statement of faith tick all the right boxes? If so, welcome to the club. Here is your mantle of leadership. Now just never change your mind about anything, and you have a lifetime gig here as an intellectual and spiritual guide to the faithful. On the liberal side, the gatekeeping is all about what I would call “process.” Mike and I have both explored the possibility of pastoral ministry in the United Church of Canada, the most liberal mainline denomination in the land. (For you non-Canucks trying to place this tribe, it is a made-in-Canada amalgam of Methodist, Presbyterian and Congregationalist denominations) The message of the UCC is: Everyone is welcome here, we have open minds and open hearts. And iron-clad protocol. That few members understand. So when some young outsiders come along without the proper paperwork, the UCC just doesn’t know what to do with them and their offer of pastoral involvement dies in committee.

In its defence, the UCC is trying to protect its congregations from hostile takeovers by zealots who have come along in the past to try to “save” them from their liberal heresies. And they are trying to protect their pulpits for the good folk who have gone through their accredited seminaries and find themselves competing for pastoral charges in an ever-shrinking pool of viable UCC congregations. Just like the glaciers we thought of as permanent to the Canadian landscape, liberal mainline churches are dissolving quickly in a rapidly changing climate. It’s a hard time to be hospitable.

So guys like me and Mike get together to lick our wounds and soothe our egos and figure out how in the world our love for reading theology and making music and meeting people in the most real moments of their lives could still be a vocation, and perhaps, please God, a livelihood.

In the wilderness in which we wander, podcasts like Nomad are manna. They feed us, and draw us together around a common,  if virtual, table. We may be homeless wanderers, but we are homeless together, and that is a life-saving difference. We are so grateful for the leadership and provision podcasts like Nomad offer us in this mostly leaderless, provisional time. But still, we ache for a land in which to settle, a place to grow our own crops and provide for others instead of living off of the morsels drifting down out of the sky.

When I was leaving, Mike lent me a book by Miroslav Volf, Exclusion and Embrace. It so happens that in the book, Volf asks the question of what it means to be a nomad. Does it mean a life where, as Gilles Deleuze says, “There is no starting point just as there is no goal to reach”? Volf suggests that rather than the life of a nomad, what Deleuze is describing is the life of a “vagabond” or “stroller.” Nomads are going somewhere, seeking something. They are “departing…without leaving,” according to Volf. He points  to the nomadic archetype of Abraham: Abraham’s “departure had a starting point – his country, his kindred, and his father’s house; and it had a definite goal – creation of a people” (40).

Here’s to being a nomad.

Marcus Rempel

Professor Tom Wright has got another book out! If you found the 1800 page tome that was Paul and the Faithfulness of God a little intimidating, then perhaps try his mere 500 page Paul: A Biography. Or failing that, how about a 50 minute Nomad interview to bring you up to speed with Tom’s new insights on the apostle Paul. And fascinating insights they are too. Did you know, for example, that Paul struggled with doubts and with his mental health? No, we didn’t either.

After the interview Nomad hosts Tim Nash and David Blower ponder these fresh Pauline revelations and ponder what it means for their evolving faith.

Interview begins at 9m 13s


Image taken by Tim Nash. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Paul: A Biography

Paul and the Faithfulness of God

QUOTES

“I think the main deconstruction comes through the cross. That nobody had seen – as far as we know – nobody had seen it coming; that when God would come in person to deliver his people, he would come in the form of a crucified messiah. And that is just utterly shocking. And unless we feel the shock again and again, we’re not really listening to Paul’s tone of voice, nevermind the actual words he’s saying.”

“There is no other example in the ancient world anywhere of a community that is trans-ethnic, trans-geographical, which embraces both genders, which embraces all social classes – rich, poor, slave, free, etcetera. The closest that you get of a trans-national community like this would be the Jewish synagogue community. But that’s trans-geographical but very specifically one ethnos – one ethnic group. And the closest example otherwise than that would be something like the Roman army or the civil service, where if you’re a Roman soldier of a certain rank in Antioch, you’re a mate of your equivalent in Spain or France or somewhere else. But, of course, they are all Caesar-worshipers and they’re all men and they are all basically Romans – even if they’re not Romans by birth. So, what the Christians are doing is an experiment in a different sort of family with different family loyalties and ties – and not least economic ties – of a sort that the world had never seen before. And I don’t think we can emphasize this enough.”

From just two verses at the end of Romans, Paula Gooder has gleaned some fascinating insights about Phoebe. She was likely a freed slave, who became wealthy and influential. And she was a deacon who carried Paul’s letter to the Church in Rome, and most likely explained it to them. From these intriguing details, Paula has written a novel, exploring the life of this woman (and others) in the early church.
So we met up with Paula to chat about women in the early church and the church today. And as you’d expect from Paula is was a conversation brimming with enthusiasm, wisdom and insight.

After the interview Nomad hosts Tim Nash and David Blower ponder what all this means for their evolving faith.

Interview begins at 12m 47s


Image provided by Paula Gooder. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Phoebe: A Story

QUOTES

“One of the really interesting things about the way in which churches develop is how enculturated we become. So, we like to think that we are guided by principles other than the society in which we live and we have great vision for changing things. And that is to a certain extent the case. But if you just trace your way through church history, time and time again the church become embedded in the society in which it finds itself. And we still are today. And we just need to be clear that that is the case. So, we might want to think we’re incredibly radical, but we’re not really. Society really affects how things are.”

“The Bible tells the story of humanity from creation to the end of time. And it is a play with a missing act at the end. And what we’re called to do as Christians is to improvise. We read the Bible, we understand what it’s talking about, we understand the dynamics, and then we do faithful improvisation. So, we’re called to enter the stage of God’s love for the world and to improvise from what we know of the story of God’s relationship between God and people from the dawn of time to the end of all times.”

You’re no doubt aware that the Church has been in steady decline in the West for a number of decades now. In the UK for example, Church attendance has roughly halved in the last thirty five years. But what do we know about all the people who left? Why did they leave? And what are they doing now? Researcher Steve Aisthorpe contacted 5000 church leavers to find out more. And what it discovered revealed a much more hopeful, but no less challenging picture of the Church!

After the interview Nomad hosts Tim Nash, Jemimah McAlpine and David Blower reflect on their own church exits and ponder what for them are signs of hope.

Interview begins at 8m 7s


Image provided by Steve Aisthorpe. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Invisible Church

QUOTES

“Some of the folk who we may see as – or may be seen by some as – traitors, you know, those who have jumped ship, I suspect somewhere in the future may be seen as the avant-garde of something new perhaps…I believe we’ll look back on this period and see it not as a time of decline simply, but a time of change and of transition; that the church is changing shape.”

“If we don’t recognise and engage with changes in society, then we rapidly become relevant to a situation that no longer exists.”

It’s summer and we’re feeling generous, so with thought we’d share this month’s Nomad Devotional with everyone. If you’re a patron of nomad you’ll be very familiar with our Devotionals. Each month we ask a guest to offer us a reflection. And then we unpack it with music, song and readings.
This month we asked the former Dean of Duke Divinity School Elaine Heath to reflect on the spiritual practices she sees as vital for Christians today, and the spiritual practice that has had a particularly deep impact in her own life. David Blower then responds with music and a couple of new songs.
If you want more resources like these, and opportunities to connect with the nomad community, then check out our Patreon and PayPal membership pages.


Image provided by Duke Divinity School. Used with permission.


QUOTES

“What hospitality does is it de-centres our ego, when you make room for others you don’t get to take up all the room yourself.”

“For Christians to actively engage in environmental care and environmental healing as a Christian practice can say a lot to our neighbours that care about the environment but care nothing about church or religion. It also says a lot to God whose world this really is, it becomes even an act of worship.”

For those of you who support us on Patreon, you’ll already be familiar with David Benjamin Blower’s music. Each month he responds to a guest’s reflection with music and song. And out of these Devotionals has emerged the album Hymns for Nomads, a compilation of spirituals, murder ballads and campfire songs. It’s a record that invites us to pick up an instrument, to play, sing, join hands and have some hard-won hope.

So Tim Nash met up with David to talk about why we sing together, why some of us have become suspicious of singing together, and some of the themes of his record; creation, the Holy Spirit, judgement, creatureliness and messianic hope.


Image used with permission.


WEBSITE

David Blower – Bandcamp

QUOTES

“If you’re using singing together to tribalize, around what kind of vision are you tribalizing and what are the outworkings of that and how does that other – the ‘other’ – what kind of dynamics does that lead to? Does it help your tribe turn into a gift that gives and pours out to the other? Or are you kind of building musical walls around yourselves to keep the other out and to keep them alienated?”

“‘Anthem’ – that word for me is such a power word and it feels like a very top-down kind of thing…it’s like creating a tower of music that wields itself over what surrounds it. But folk music – I suppose the essence of that is that it’s music that is in the hands of everyday people. And everyday people are making it, they’re writing it and they’re reinterpreting it. I like with folk music that you take a folk song and then you re-write it.”

Christianity in the West is collapsing. Poet, peacemaker and scholar John Philip Newell believes we can either deny it’s happening, try to shore up the foundations of the old thing, or we can radically reorientate our vision and ask what new thing is trying to be born. So we ask John Philip what this new thing is that is trying to emerge from deep within us and from deep within the collective soul of Christianity.

After the interview Nomad hosts Tim Nash and David Blower reflect on what all this means for their evolving faith.

Interview begins at 6m 3s


Image by Tim Nash. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Rebirthing of God: Christianity’s Struggle for New Beginnings

Listening for the Heartbeat of God: A Celtic Spirituality

QUOTES

“We’re not creating a ‘rebirthing of God.’ If anything, we are being invited to midwife or to assist or serve a new emergence that is stirring in the human soul and in the human consciousness and in the Earth community.”

“One of the main problems I suppose with the word ‘God’ is that when we use it, we often think we know what we’re talking about. And we use it often as a proper name instead of a way of pointing to the one who is beyond names or who cannot be uttered.”

Vicky Beeching was the darling of the Christian worship scene. For a decade she wrote hit albums and toured American mega-churches, leading worship for thousands of people every week. Her songs become some of the most sung around the world. But from the age of 13 Vicky had kept a secret. She was gay.

When finally at the age of 35 she came out, the evangelical Church she loved turned on her. Boycotting her music, they ended her career over night. This was backed up with an unrelenting flood of online abuse.

We chat with Vicky about the importance of wholeness, vulnerability, authenticity and the radical and inclusive love of Jesus.

After the interview Nomad hosts Tim Nash and Jemimah McAlpine reflect on Vicky’s story and on their own journey towards an affirming theology.

Interview begins at 8m 2s


Image by Nicholas Dawkes. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Undivided: Coming Out, Becoming Whole, and Living Free From Shame

QUOTES

“I think part of what I want to raise awareness with this book is that often people step out in church leadership and say things to people without any thought of the pastoral implications on people’s mental health and the damage of that. And that might a truth that the Bible states, but it was not the right truth to say to me at that moment in that way.”

“The only way I’ve been able to actually keep my faith is to be able to separate the church from God and to realize that actually God hasn’t damaged me. God hasn’t, you know, thrown shame and hatred at me. Actually, the things that have happened to me that have been really painful have been by the church and by people that I think don’t represent the true message of Jesus, which I think is love and welcome and inclusivity. It’s when I hang onto that kind of Christianity – that is my faith.”

“If we want our world to be more beautiful, kind and fair, then shouldn’t our activism be beautiful, kind and fair?” It’s obvious when you hear someone say it. So why is so much activism loud and aggressive? Sarah Corbett burnt out on just this kind of activism, partly because she’s an introvert, and partly because she increasingly doubted its effectiveness. So she formed the Craftivist Collective “an inclusive group of people committed to using thoughtful, beautiful crafted works to help themselves and encourage others be the positive change they wish to see in the world.”

Sarah’s is a fascinating story. And the collective she founded is a truly inspiring and challenging movement!

After the interview Nomad hosts Tim Nash and David Blower reflect on Sarah’s activism journey and the role activism has played in their own evolving faith.

Interview begins at 12m 36s


Image by Jenny Lewis. Used with permission.


BOOKS

How to be a Craftivist: The Art of Gentle Protest

WEBSITES

TEDx: Activism Needs Introverts

TEDx: The Art of Gentle Protest

QUOTES

“Lots of people hold an object to disciple themselves, to anchor themselves and pray. I felt like craft was an incredible way for me to really reflect on how to be an effective activist, how to engage more deeply on a particular issue, how to empathize with the perpetrators, the victims and everyone in between. So, the process of craft really clicked with me for activism. And then it happened really organically in a way that looking back I’m like, ‘God, you work in weird ways.’”

“I’m not saying people should stop shouting. I think sometimes we do need to be above the power a bit and say, ‘What is happening here?’ But I think when you start saying, ‘This person is awful, we need to change them,’ there’s a big difference between those two things. And often sadly the angry stuff clouds our judgement; our anger gives us a hot head and we say stuff that can put us backwards rather than forwards.”

Metropolitan Kallistos Ware is considered by many to be the leading theologian today in the Orthodox Church. He is perhaps best known as the author of the book The Orthodox Church, and more recently the companion volume, The Orthodox Way.

Metropolitan Kallistos is also known as one of the great advocates of the Jesus Prayer, a prayer that countless Christians through the centuries have considered to be central to their spiritual growth. It was a prayer Rowan Williams referred to in our 2017 interview with him as being foundational to his prayer life. So we thought it was about time we learnt more.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and David Blower reflect on the spiritual practices they’ve found helpful, and whether the Jesus Prayer might play a role in their evolving faith.

Interview begins at 7m 27s


Image by Tim Nash. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Orthodox Church: An Introduction to Eastern Christianity

The Orthodox Way

The Power of the Name: The Jesus Prayer in Orthodox Spirituality

QUOTES

“Mercy for me is not a dark or gloomy word. It is a word full of light and hope. Mercy for me means the love of God poured out to reconcile and to heal. So, in the ‘Jesus Prayer’ we have the glory of God when we think of Jesus as ‘Son of God.’ We have myself, whether I openly say ‘I’m a sinner’ or not, the fact remains I need God’s grace. And these two things – God’s glory and my own neediness – are bridged by the word ‘mercy.’”

“What do we mean by ‘silence’? It can be thought of negatively: just a pause between words, an absence of noise. And in that case, it is something negative and empty. But silence can also be understood in a positive way: not just as ceasing to speak, but beginning to listen.”

Rachel Held Evans has had quite a journey. Brought up in the ‘buckle of the Bible Belt’ she inherited a conservative evangelical faith and was a self-professing ‘Bible Nerd’. But shaken by the realities of our broken world, cracks began to form, and questions turned to doubts, doubts to cynicism and cynicism to despair. But through this journey she continued to wrestle with the Bible, sometimes exasperated by its apparent complicity with the bloody, ugly, mess of this world, and other times challenged and inspired by it. So how does she understand this book now? How, with all its contradictions, violence, patriarchy, and bewildering images of God, can she say it’s inspired? How has she found a way to love the Bible again?

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and David Blower reflect on the changing role the Bible has played in their own evolving faith.

Interview begins at 11m 59s


Image provided by HarperCollins. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Inspired: Slaying Giants, Walking on Water, and Loving the Bible Again

Searching for Sunday

Faith Unraveled: How a Girl Who Knew All the Answers Learned to Ask Questions

Political theologian Stephen Backhouse believes that the earliest Christians tended to see patriotism as a vice – a temptation to guard against. Now it seems most Christians assume it is a virtue. Many of us, for example, don’t think twice about asking God to Save the Queen or Bless America.

So we ask Stephen whether the gospel is good news for our nations, what it means for a follower of Jesus to be a good citizen, whether we should be a blessing to our nation, or an unsettling presence, and how we should respond when loving our nation rubs up against our call to love our enemies.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and David Blower reflect on Stephen’s ideas and wonder how they might shape their own evolving faith.

Interview begins at 12m 28s


Image provided by Stephen Backhouse. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Kierkegaard: A Single Life

Essential Companion to Christian History

WEBSITE

Tent Theology

QUOTES

“The trajectory of nationalism is always trying to find smaller and smaller groups – it’s tribalism. So, you’re always trying to reduce the amount of people that you have to be allegiant to. It’s the logic that, ‘I need to be around people that look like me and sound like me as much as possible,’ which is not actually a unifying trajectory. It almost by definition means you’re constantly trying to define who doesn’t count for you.”

“The early Christians saw patriotism as a vice to be guarded against. Now, Christians see it as a virtue to be embraced…a lot of the beating heart of discipleship in the New Testament is actually retraining people to not consider their national allegiance to be their primary allegiance anymore.”

Danielle Shroyer believes that more than any other idea, the doctrine of original sin has “slowly eroded our understanding of our relationship with God”. Not only that, she believes it is unbiblical, and was rejected by Judaism and many Christian traditions, such as the Eastern Orthodox Church. So we ask Danielle how she understands sin, separation, and our relationship with God. Her answer? Original Blessing.

After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim Nash and new host Jemimah McAlpine reflect on the role Original Sin played in shaping their faith, and what a more hopeful and live-giving theology might look like for them.

Interview begins at 11m 56s


Image provided by Danielle Shroyer. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Original Blessing: Putting Sin in Its Rightful Place

QUOTES

“I think what Jesus defeated on the cross primarily – first of all – is death. All of the Easter celebrations that the early church had was centred around the idea that in Christ, God defeated death and that we are now given life because of it. And to devolve that into just forgiveness of sins feels like we’re really downshifting from how big of a story life and death is, and Easter is. I have to admit that I am always very skeptical of people that say that they know what the cross means. I feel that I’ve been thinking about it heavily for 30 years, and the more I think about it, the more it means. So, when somebody can say in one sentence what the cross did, that’s just not right.”

“If you really acknowledge the goodness in people, you can just see their faces being so receptive and grateful for that. And when you show in the way that you live or in the way that you explain things to that person how that has to do with this connection that we all have to this higher power – this God, this spirit in the world that is life-giving and generous and good – then we end up all kind of on the same page. It’s an act of togetherness rather than, ‘There’s something seriously wrong with you, and until you acknowledge it, you’re going to go to hell.’”

Poet and priest Malcolm Guite helps us mark the death and resurrection of Jesus with poems from his series on the stations of the cross, and with his reflections on the Messianic Event. Nomad’s David Blower responds to Malcolm’s poetry and thought in sound and song, and Kate Blower brings the Easter readings.

We produce devotionals like this every month as bonus content for our supporters. So if you’re interested in helping us pay the bills, head over to our Patreon or PayPal membership pages.


Image provided by Malcolm Guite. Used with permission.


PERMISSIONS

This episode features poems from Sounding the Seasons, used with permission by Canterbury Press

BOOKS

Sounding the Seasons: Poetry for the Christian Year

Faith, Hope and Poetry

QUOTES

“All of my thought and writing about the passion and indeed the resurrection is written in the conviction that these are not just events out there and back then, but in some sense in here and right now; that these central, generative events – in which the creator of all things comes into creation and sets things right from inside – are also always and at all times richly available to us on the inside too and to the inside of ourselves. So, we look back – yes – to this once and once only event, but we can also come to that cross anywhere and at anytime.”

“The dark nails pierce him and the sky turns black. We watch him as he labours to draw breath. He takes our breath away to give it back, return it to its birth through his slow death. We hear him struggle breathing through the pain, who once breathed out his spirit on the deep, who formed us when he mixed the dust with rain and drew us into consciousness from sleep. His spirit and his life he breaths in all. Mantles his world in his one atmosphere. And now he comes to breathe beneath the pall of our polutions, draw our injured air to cleanse it and renew. His final breath breathes and bears us through the gates of death.”

Professor Thomas Oord has spent years wrestling with the problem of evil. Why, if God is all powerful and all loving, is there so much evil in the world? This question has brought Thomas to the edge of his faith. In recent years, though, he has begun to consider a radical solution. Perhaps God can’t stop evil? As shocking as this sounds, Thomas is careful to show how biblical this idea is, and just how much it looks like Jesus. Tune in for a mind bending episode!

Interview begins at 11m 21s


Image provided by Thomas Oord. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Uncontrolling Love of God: An Open and Relational Account of Providence

God Can’t: How to Believe in God and Love after Tragedy, Abuse, and Other Evils

QUOTES

“If God really didn’t want something and God had the power to stop it – to prevent it – then God should do so, if God is perfectly loving. And so this idea of saying ‘God won’t stop evil’ ends up making God ultimately culpable for failing to prevent it. And so I’ve come to believe that we need to take the next step and say that God really can’t stop evil.”

“Open theology says that God cannot foreknow the future in its entirety. It says that God experiences time somewhat like we do. And that means that the future is really the future for God. And God can’t know with absolute certainty what will actually occur in the future because that is not yet knowable. God knows everything that’s happened in the past, God knows everything that’s happening in the present, God knows all the possibilities for the future. But until those possibilities become actual, God can’t know them as actual.”

Georgia May’s parents had an open-door policy. Literally. Most of the time the front door of their home was left open, so that people would feel welcome at any time. Consequently, Georgia grew up with a house full of people who’s didn’t feel they had a family of their own. This radical approach to hospitality led to many lives being transformed. But Georgia also knows first hand what can happen when radical hospitality goes wrong. So we ask her, when is radical too radical?

Interview begins at 9m 14s


Image by Tim Nash. Used with permission.


QUOTES

“I just love polarities. I think we live in a world that is so hooked on seeing everything through a binary lens, that the idea that you could have a conversation about faith in a society where we’re always trying to either avoid faith or kind of mash it into something that then loses the beauty of each tradition. I just think: amazing – come to the table, disagree and let’s talk about disagreeing well, whilst also learning what scripture means to each of us.”

“Radical hospitality is holding things in tension. Holding openness and boundedness in tension. And radical is too radical when you loose all sense of what boundaries are about. So, I think hospitality is too radical when you loose who you are in the process; when you are seeing boundaries as walls that just need to be removed. Cause then what happens is you’re trying to welcome people into a space that you can’t even define.”

Jayme Reaves grew up in a home and a church that weren’t safe environments. This later led to a passion to study and experience true hospitality. Through her studies and her experiences in the former Yugoslavia and Northern Ireland, she discovered that the hospitality we’re called to goes way beyond simply welcoming the stranger. Instead we’re called to protect the stranger. Tune in for an enlightening and challenging conversation.

Interview begins at 9m 45s


Image by Tim Nash. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Safeguarding the Stranger: An Abrahamic Theology and Ethic of Protective Hospitality

QUOTES

“Hospitality has been the buzzword for evangelism or church planting as a way of getting people in the door. A tool, you could say. A trick, you could say. Where it’s like, ‘Don’t you want to be one of us? Aren’t we cool? No really. We’re cool – aren’t we?’ That kind of way of being. I think that’s borne out of insecurity. Welcoming others in order to affirm your own beliefs over another community or another way of doing church is problematic. I think hospitality isn’t a trick. It’s not a tool. It has to be genuine, it has to be authentic. Otherwise it’s not the real thing.”

“I’m convinced that if hospitality underlies how we live and operate in this world as people of faith, and if hospitality is political because of recognition, solidarity, those kinds of things, then our theology and the way in which we live and how we read the bible is intensely political too. It’s all connected. ”

Nomad favourite Brad Jersak was in town recently, so we seized on the opportunity to hang out, and quiz him about his faith journey. And it’s a very interesting faith journey, taking in charismatic evangelicalism, anabaptism, church planting among the poor and marginalised, and landing in the Eastern Orthodox Church.

Despite many Western Christians being only vaguely aware of this ancient Christian tradition, the Eastern Orthodox Church is increasingly influencing our beliefs. So we asked Brad whether the Orthodox Church could be a home for spiritual nomads?


Image provided by Westminster Theological College. Used with permission.


BOOKS

A More Christlike God: A More Beautiful Gospel

A More Christlike Way: A More Beautiful Faith

The Orthodox Way

QUOTES

“By the time you get to the Nicene Creed being finalized in the 380s, they’re saying: ‘We are not trying to develop doctrine anymore. We are communicating a creed that is our memory of what was given to us.’ So, the Nicene Creed represents ‘the faith once delivered.’ That’s going to slow you down from deviations in your doctrine. And in that sense, they really have a solid claim, at least to say ‘the faith once delivered, as remembered in the fourth century.’ That’s a very, very deep well. From an Orthodox point of view, you would look at these evangelical denominations creating themselves, writing their own faith statements. What’s that? If you think you’re a deep well, what that looks like is digging puddles in the backyard.”

“Is it possible that one who has previously rejected God when [they see] Christ face to face and [they experience] the fire of God’s love, could that love be effectual? In other words, could that love purge [them] like a refiner’s fire of all our resistances to love, such that you could have a post-mortem repentance? The Orthodox Church seems to say that’s possible. In fact, some of the Fathers say that’s definitely what’s going to happen – as long as you preserve free will. Maybe a summary statement of that: Because of Christ’s conquest of death, we would say this: ‘If Christ went to such lengths to preserve our right to say “no” to him – that is the cross – having defeated death, why would the event of death be allowed to prevent us from saying ‘yes’ to him later?’” 

John Swinton is a Scottish theologian and founder of the University of Aberdeen’s Centre for Spirituality, Health and Disability. After years of work as a mental health nurse, John became an academic in order to process all that he’d learnt. And my word has he learnt a lot!

His book Dementia: Living in the Memories of God, and Becoming Friends of Time are packed full of fascinating and vital insights about what we must learn from people with disabilities about what it means to be human and a disciple of Jesus.


Image provided by John Swinton. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Becoming Friends of Time

Dementia: Living in the Memories of God

QUOTES

“When you hang around with people who see the world differently and perceive things in ways that are unconventional, you begin to see (a) that there’s a lot of truth to that way of seeing the world, and (b) that some of your established norms are just that – ‘established norms’ – they’re always open to challenge.”

“In order to have somebody who belongs, you need to love them, you need to care for them. Or the way that I like to phrase it is: ‘To belong, you need to be missed.’ So, when you are part of a community, you can only really be sure that you’re part of that community when it comes to that time when you’re not there and people look for you. Inclusion – it doesn’t make much of a difference if you’re there or not there. But belonging means that it matters to be there.”

Here’s the final part of our four-part Advent Devotional series. This time philosopher and theologian Elaine Storkey reflects on Advent in the context of those on the margins. Former Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams finishes the Advent readings, and David Benjamin Blower closes things out with his unique style of music and songs.


Images provided by SPCK and Magdalene College. Used with permission.


QUOTES

“People on the margins don’t usually cut much ice, which is why it’s fascinating that the Nativity story focuses on these people rather than those in the centre. Sure, King Herod makes an appearance, but doesn’t get a very good press. The Roman governor gets a mention too: he’s clearly on the make because he wants to raise taxes and so takes a census, but he gets a one liner. Mary and Joseph and the coming baby is what the story’s all about: really marginalised people.”

“The margins are never margins for God. The Nativity helps us to see how God’s values challenge everyone, especially those of us who might feel we’re somewhere near the centre. God invites us to step back and see a much bigger picture, and see the world as he loves it.”

It’s week three of our four-part Advent Devotional series. This time philosopher and theologian Elaine Storkey considers how Advent might be Good News to the Poor. Former Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams continues to work his way through the Advent readings, with the help of Kate Blower. And David Benjamin Blower continues to bring the music and songs. So good!


Images provided by SPCK and Magdalene College. Used with permission.


QUOTES

“So why were the shepherds singled out for this good news of great joy? Why did they get this wonderful but terrifying visit from the singing angels rather than the carpenters, or thatchers? And why didn’t the angels come to tell the synagogue leaders, or scribes and Pharisees? Well, we have no idea, except that’s the way God works: it’s to the ordinary people, the every-day, the ones who put up with their lot, those who know the struggles of poverty and hardship, that God does spring his message of joy and celebration.”

“This doesn’t just affect the economically poor, because we’re all poor in the sight of God, whether we have wealth or nothing, because we’re spiritually needy, often with lives we’ve messed up in one way or another. The good news for all of us is that brokenness, poverty, things we’ve done wrong, do not have the last word. God’s love reaches us through all that, and offers us forgiveness and a new sight.”

Here’s the second part of our four-part Advent Devotional series. This time philosopher and theologian Elaine Storkey bases her reflection around the idea of Peace Across Borders. Former Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams again brings the readings along with Kate Blower, and David Benjamin Blower brings the music and songs.


Images provided by SPCK and Magdalene College. Used with permission.


QUOTES

“As the wise men travel the road from Babylon in the East to Jerusalem, they bring back the gold, frankincense and myrrh stolen so many years before from David’s House. This too, is what Isaiah would promise would happen: the same foreigners that looted Jerusalem would some day rebuild her walls, and their kings would serve her.”

“In the Gospels, there’s a huge contrast between those in come in peace in fulfilment of the Messianic prophecy, and Herod, the king, who responds with anything but peace. He belongs to the old world order: that which stands in contrast with the kingdom of God. His instinct is to murder and destroy, because he fears any new king. He fears the potential erosion of his own power base. He is not interested in the international offer of peace: his mind is set on conflict and bloodshed because that’s in his own self interest.”

If you’re one of our Patreon or PayPal supporters, then you’ll already be familiar with our Nomad Devotionals. Every month we ask a guest to reflect on a topic, and then we unpack it with music, song, readings, and prayers.

For Advent we thought we produce a four-part Devotional and make it available to everyone. So for the next four Sundays you can expect a reflection from philosopher and theologian Elaine Storkey, and the former archbishop of Canterbury, Dr. Rowan Williams will be contributing the readings, along with Kate Blower who will be reading the magnificat in the first Devotional. And of course Nomad’s David Benjamin Blower will be bringing the music and songs. What more could you ask for this Christmas?!

This first devotional reflects on the idea of liberation.


Images provided by SPCK and Magdalene College. Used with permission.


QUOTES

“Mary isn’t simply rejoicing because God has looked kindly upon her even though she is nobody, not even because she is a woman […] she’s rejoicing because God’s favour speaks into the humiliation that she and her people are enduring.”

“Mary knows that God is giving us a vision of something very different. What the Magnificat describes is nothing less than a revolution, and is ushered in by the Incarnation — God becoming one of us.”

Dave Randall has played guitar for some huge acts, including Faithless, Dido and Sinead O’Connor. As he’s reflected on his career and the industry he’s been a part of, he has begun to see the huge potential of music to change society. This prompted him to write the excellent book Sound System: The Political Power of Music. So if you’re interested in pondering how the songs we sing might help us not just love God, but also love our neighbour, then tune in!

This episode ends with Ibrahim Qashoush performing the protest song “Yalla Erhal Ya Bashar”, or “Come on, Bashar, leave”, during the 2011 Syrian up-rising. Qashoush’s song is mocking president Bashar al-Assad. Qashoush was later found dead in the Orontes River, his throat cut and his vocal cords pulled out. You can watch the video of the performance with subtitled lyrics on YouTube.

Interview start at 12m 36s


Image provided by Henna Malik. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Sound System: The Political Power of Music

QUOTES

“I think there are many examples of music both reflecting, but then giving strength back to social movements, and I think it’s the social movements that achieve great change. But musicians have helped reflect that, and often given confidence back to the movement, on many occasions.”

“If we confine our political activity to organizing demos and strikes, we are missing a trick – a trick which members of the establishment have never missed. (You know) Members of the establishment throughout history and across cultures have always recognized the political power of music. We need to do the same. We need to integrate it into our campaigns – we need to integrate it into out movements – we need to use it as a force for good.”

Muhanad Al Qaisy’s grandfather, grandmother and seven children fled their home in Palestine and ended up in a refugee camp in 1948. Nearly 70 years later, the family is still struggling to make a life in the same camp. So we ask Muhanad what he sees as signs of hope.

Interview starts at 11m 10s


Image provided by Muhanad Al Qaisy. Used with permission.


WEBSITE

Olive Tree Project

QUOTES

“It was a very hard situation for them. Because I’m telling you, they never imagined one day someone will come and just say ‘leave from here’, because they had been there since hundreds of years. They had their homes, their lives, their neighbors.”

“The barrier was built only to take more and more lands from the Palestinian side, not to protect Israel. Israel can only be protected by peace, by negotiation, by building Bridges.”

Well, this is it, Dave Ward’s final episode. After six years of podcasting, he’s decided to go on to other things (probably something to do with horses…).

In his final episode, we’re chatting with Nick Spencer, the Director of Research at Theos Think Tank, and author of The Evolution of the West: How Christianity Has Shaped Our Values. And we’re asking him, what difference has Christianity really made to society, and what indications are there that it has a hopeful future?

Interview starts at 19m 38s


Image provided by Theos. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Evolution of the West: How Christianity Has Shaped Our Values

Doing Good: A Future for Christianity in the 21st Century

WEBSITE

Theos Think Tank

QUOTES

“We shouldn’t romanticize it, it wasn’t perfect, but compared to the way that – particularly slaves, particularly women, particularly children, particularly the unborn, particularly the infirm – were treated, I think the church did a pretty good job.”

“…It’s the idea that that which is of utmost value, that which is truly sacred, becomes human, blesses and incorporates a broken, fallen humanity into himself and leaves those who chose to gather ‘round him with the command ‘go and do likewise’. Which is a kind of slightly highfalutin way of saying, Christianity says that when you are in contact with other persons, you are in fact in contact in some tangential way with God.”

A recent report into human trafficking revealed that the problem is significantly worse than previously thought. In fact, it is believed that in the UK alone, every large town and city will have trafficked people in it who are effectively enslaved, and many of us are unwittingly coming into contact with trafficked people every day. So we speak with three people – Ruth Dearnley, Julia Pugh and Hannah Flint – committed to finding signs of hope in this seemingly bleak situation.

Interview starts at 8m 58s.


Images provided by Stop the Traffik, Julia Pugh and Hannah Flint. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Stop the Traffik: People shouldn’t be bought and sold: The Crime That Shames Us All

WEBSITE

Stop the Traffik

QUOTES

“I utterly think that we need to have sight to see a Kingdom that’s greater than what we just look at around us. But I’m also aware of sounding like we are on a planet that is disconnected from our culture. We need to be utterly incarnate, if you want to use that word. We’ve got to be present. We’ve got to get our hands dirty. We have to feel the soil on our feet. The dirt in our hands.”

“You’ve got to get up and get on with it. I think that’s what Jesus said. You know, follow me, don’t sit down for too long, argue and pull down those who are trying. And I’ve watched those who inspire me and they are always people who are kind and they are always people who encourage everyone around and they are always those who take the greatest risks. They’ve got stories to tell ‘cos they are doing something.”

Elizabeth Edman believes she has learnt more from the LGBTQ community about what it means to be a Christian, than she has from the Church. Why? Well, she believes the church has forgotten what it means to be scandalous, to struggle for identity and to expand its boundaries to include the marginalised. And so the Church needs to learn from the gay community – and other marginalised groups – that have embraced these virtues.

Interview starts at 6m 16s


Image by Keryn Lowry. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Queer Virtue: What Lgbtq People Know about Life and Love and How It Can Revitalize Christianity

QUOTES

“I think it is very hard for communities not to become clubs. That’s the challenge for us. So for me, one of the reasons that queerness is this wonderful lens is precisely because it demands exploration constantly of things like club mentality. Are we a club or something else? And if we are something else how do we rupture whatever walls exist here, whether they are literal or metaphorical.”

“Christianity was meant to be an inherently scandalous movement. Jesus entered into scandal every opportunity that he could…”

“I believe that when people have different kinds of experiences together we learn things about God and ourselves and one another by entering more deeply into whatever that collective experience is. And I believe that when that experience has taught someone something about God particularly, that it’s likely that’s gesturing towards a truth about God that’s actually probably true for everybody.”

Malcolm Guite is a poet, priest and theologian. Years of inhabiting these roles has led him to the belief that we’re relying far too much on reason and thought in the formation of our faith, and are overlooking the significance of the ‘poetic imagination’.

He believes that we can find deep truth in the imagination and that poetry can bring our faith alive in a way that nothing else can. It’s a fascinating and hope-filled conversation!

Interview begins at 6m 50s


Image provided by Malcolm Guite. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Faith, Hope and Poetry

Sounding the Seasons: Poetry for the Christian Year

QUOTES

“Liturgy is poetry, necessarily. Liturgy is a made and shaped thing that brings you in, takes you on a journey, transforms you and sends you out again with a new vision and that’s what a poem does.”

“Love is meaningful because it involves lament. And that’s what’s just completely missing, I think, from contemporary Christian music.”

“The whole [Seamus Heaney] poem is about a music you would never have known to listen for in a cactus stalk. It’s about upending things. The poem is about how you take this stupid dry stick from the desert and then, weirdly, the sound of refreshment comes out of it. And life is like that – that it’s actually often at the zero point, the worst point, that suddenly something extraordinary actually happens. And what makes it extraordinary is the unexpectedness of it.”

I know, we only just interviewed Walter Brueggemann! But he’s just brought a book out entitled Money and Possessions and we’ve still got unresolved questions after our chat with Justin Welby on that subject. So why not spend another hour in the digital presence of one of the great biblical scholars of our time?! And as you’d expect, it was an hour chock-full of wisdom and insight!

Interview started at 6m 53s


Image provided by Westminster John Knox Press Used with permission.


BOOKS

Money and Possessions: Interpretation: Resources for the Use of Scripture in the Church

Prophetic Imagination

QUOTES

“Money regularly morphs into an idolatry and that idolatry will lead to the commoditization of human relationships…”

“If we are adequately grateful, we are propelled to be generous.”

“The Torah teaching wants to say that we prosper when we are fully engaged in the work of the well being of the community.”

 “The question we have to ask is, ‘what decisions can I make today about my money and my body that will lead me to make greater decisions tomorrow?”

Walter Brueggemann is widely considered to be one of the most influential theologians of our time. So who better to help us get a handle on the idea of the Sabbath. Especially as he wrote the fascinating and insightful Sabbath as Resistance. That’s right, Sabbath is so much more than simply taking a day off, it’s an intentional and creative act of resistance.

Interview starts at 10m 8s


Image provided by Westminster John Knox Press Used with permission.


BOOKS

Sabbath as Resistance

Prophetic Imagination

QUOTES

“We have forgotten who we are, and we think that our life is mainly defined by production and consumption. And if that is the goal and definition of life, then one must stay at it all the time. And in that frame of reference, Sabbath becomes an inconvenience and an unwelcome interruption. So Sabbath makes no sense if we’ve put our lives down in a narrative of production and consumption. Sabbath belongs to a narrative that contradicts the scheme of production and consumption.”

“[Sabbath] is a pause that permits us to reflect on who we are, who we are created to be, who we are called to be, and it makes us aware of the extent to which we have forgotten or compromised our creaturely reality. So it is an opportunity to circle back on our baptismal identity, on our faith identity, on our authentic human identity, that is always placed under stress by the commoditisation of our culture.”

For the last 20 years Shane Claiborne has been trying to follow Jesus in a deprived area of Philadelphia. This journey has led him to a commitment to non-violence, ‘from womb to tomb’, which has been tested on many occasions. So tune in for a challenging and counter-cultural conversation.

Interview starts at 11m 15s. 


Image by Ms. Tsar Fedorsky. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Executing Grace: How the Death Penalty Killed Jesus and Why It’s Killing Us

A Faith Not Worth Fighting For: Addressing Commonly Asked Questions about Christian Nonviolence

QUOTES

“For the first few hundred years, Christians were unmistakably committed to nonviolence, in every sense of the word. They spoke out against abortion, they spoke out against the death penalty, They spoke out against militarism and war. They had a beautiful, seamless garment when it came to the ethic of life.”

“Pacifism is anything other than passive. I Don’t think it’s passive in the sense of not doing anything. What I believe in is active nonviolence. I believe in getting in the way of violence, getting to the root of violence.”

It’s pretty clear what Jesus was about. Love you neighbour (and if that’s not challenging enough, love your enemies) was at the top of his manifesto. So why do we find it so hard to follow his example? Professor of Psychology at Abilene University, Richard Beck, doesn’t think the issue is a lack of understanding. We know what we’re meant to do. Instead, Richard thinks the issue is a psychological one. And it’s to do with a misplaced psychology of disgust. Tune in for a truly fascinating conversation!

Interview starts at 6m 47s  


Image provided by Richard Beck. Used with permission.


WEBSITE

Experimental Theology

BOOKS

Unclean: Meditations on Purity, Hospitality, and Mortality

Stranger God: Meeting Jesus in Disguise

QUOTES

“There’s something to offend us all in Jesus and sometimes we like to point out the parts of Jesus that offend our enemies, we like to quote those scriptures against them, but, you know, I just like to embrace those parts of Jesus that offend me.  I constantly want Jesus to unsettle me!”

“When I think of being contaminated by the world, I think of all the ways the world is tempting me to hate people.  So, social media is tempting me to hate people, cable news is tempting me to hate certain kinds of people, political discourse in the USA is tempting me to hate people, to see them as disposable, as trash.  My pursuit of purity and holiness is fighting a great spiritual battle with my social media feed.”

In many ways Brian Zahnd is like many of Nomad’s guests in that he deconstructed (although he doesn’t like that term) what he came to see as a very narrow faith, and reconstructed something much deeper and broader. The difference with Brian, though, is that he went through this process while pastoring a mega-church. So we asked him, how can you lead a church, or indeed be a member of a church, when your faith is changing and you feel like you’re in a very different place from everyone else.

Interview starts at 13m 25s


Image provided by Zahnd Photography Used with permission.


BOOKS

Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God: The Scandalous Truth of the Very Good News

Water To Wine: Some of My Story

QUOTES

“I tend to not say that my view of Jesus has changed, I would say that my view of God is more Christlike. So, there would have been a time […] that I perhaps saw God as somewhat different than Jesus. Today I would say I have made the beautiful discovery that God is like Jesus, and God has always been like Jesus. There’s never been a time when God wasn’t like Jesus. We haven’t always known this, but now we do.”

“We can’t view the Bible as a flat text. Let’s say that I love the idea of war. Well, it’s gonna be hard to enlist Jesus in support of that, but if I approach the Bible in a wrong way, no problem; I just need to go find some other verses in the Bible that I can use to counter what Christ has clearly taught; and so that is what I see a lot of people doing… And hiding behind the Bible is the cleverest way of all of hiding from Jesus.”

“I don’t see the Church as a second step, as an option. I see it as the natural outgrowth of following Jesus, and Jesus immediately leads us into his community of other people doing the same thing.”

Every now and then we like to interview a fellow podcaster who, like us, is creating a space for an open and honest exploration of the Christian faith. And Justin Brierley is one such person. For over a decade he’s been producing Unbelievable?, on which he moderates conversations between Christians and people from other faiths and none. So firstly I took the opportunity to see if he suffers from the same podcaster insecurities that I do. Then we dug into whether apologetics – the rational defence of the faith – still has a place in our post-secular culture, and in a  faith that seems increasingly comfortable with mystery and doubt.

Interview starts at 6m 8s.


Image provided by Justin Brierley. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Unbelievable?: Why after ten years of talking with atheists, I’m still a Christian

QUOTES

“Apologetics runs the huge risk of becoming a case of moving intellectual pieces on a chess board. And that’s not the point of Christianity.”

“You have the best kinds of encounters when you’re really listening to someone, when you’re genuinely hearing their concerns and engaging with them as a person, not just as an argument to debate and shut down.”

In many ways, Nomad has been quite an intellectual journey. And as much as we love some good old fashioned theological cut-and-thrust, we’ve increasingly aware that if this journey is going to be sustainable, it’s got to be an holistic one. So each month we’ll be producing Nomad Devotionals, through which we’ll be experimenting with readings, prayers, liturgies and songs. We’re making the first one free to everyone, so you can decide whether you’re interested in joining us on this leg of the journey. If you are, then head over to our Patreon or PayPal membership pages and make a small monthly donation.

This devotional was made with help from Rabbi Margaret Jacobi from Birmingham’s Progressive Synagogue; theologian and urban gardener Sam Ewell; and Brian McLaren, who kindly gives the benediction. The song Hallelujah Sing Exulting was adapted from an old hymn by Martin Gensichen (1879-1965). All other music is by David Benjamin Blower. The song Come Holy Spirit is Public Domain (as is Hallelujah Sing Exulting).

Devotional begins at 14m 17s


Image used with permission.


QUOTES

“There are two aspects to God and one of them is that awesome aspect that you can see in the amazing nature of creation and in that story of the revelation at Mount Sinai but also there’s the aspect of God which perhaps is embodied in the shekhinah idea of God being very near to you and sustaining you, helping you through life.”

“Because the new creation is breaking in, we live in this new age. Jesus has been raised, he’s the first fruits of a new creation, he’s been present with us, he leaves us with a spirit. And so what it means to be led by the spirit is, wherever we are…we get to garden with God.”

What actually is prayer? What happens when we do it? What difference can it make, if any, to the events and circumstances we find ourselves in? Should we expect to sense God in prayer, or perhaps even hear him communicate to us? And if so, why do so few of us ever seem to have these sorts of experiences.

For many of us, these questions, and others like them, have led us to a place of disillusionment and prayerlessness. And yet we still yearn for the deep, rooted, holistic connectedness that prayer promises.

So we brought these questions, and others, to Dr. Rowan Williams, Master of Magdalen College, Cambridge, former Archbishop of Canterbury, and expert in the history of Christian spirituality. He’s known as a man of great wisdom and deep spirituality. And he didn’t disappoint!

Interview starts at 8m 5s

Image provided by Magdalene College. Used with permission.

BOOKS

Being Christian: Baptism, Bible, Eucharist, Prayer

QUOTES

“If things are difficult it’s not because God wants to make things difficult. If things are difficult its because growing up is difficult and loving is difficult and trusting is difficult and faithfulness is difficult. Get used to it. But, the one who is within and beyond all this is the one who’s essentially on your side, who wants you to go through all this so you live as fully as you can.”

“Certainly in this country we’re quite busy and talkative as Christians. It can be quite difficult to say, well just shut up and something may happen. Our culture, increasingly I think, recognises that’s it’s not enough just to be busy and talkative and I think our churches ought to be a bit more ready to welcome those people who are finding that busyness and talkativeness in our culture exhausting and unrewarding.”

Greg Boyd is back on the show! This time he’s tackling the thorny issue of violence in the Old Testament. How is it, for example, that the God revealed in Jesus loves his enemies and lays down his life for them, when the God we see in the Old Testament seems to routinely kill his enemies? What does that tell us about the nature of God, and the nature of the Bible? Greg is certainly the man to ask, as he’s just published a 1492 page book on this very subject, The Crucifixion of the Warrior God.

Image provided by ReKnew Used with permission.


BOOKS

Cross Vision: How the Crucifixion of Jesus Makes Sense of Old Testament Violence

The Crucifixion of the Warrior God: Volumes 1 & 2

WEBSITES

Apologies and Explanations

ReKnew

QUOTES

“He had this cruciform character when he breathed scripture…Shouldn’t we read scripture expecting to find, perhaps, portraits of God that are ugly on their surface. With these portraits we must expect that we’re going to have to, by faith, look through the ugly surface to behold this humble God stooping to bear the sin of His people and thereby take on the appearance, an ugly appearance that reflects the ugliness of that sin.”

“The Cross reveals what God’s always been like… always been revealing Himself by stooping to bear people’s sin and that … is why we find these ugly hideous portraits of God throughout the Bible.”

“The Lord says… ‘if you will trust me you will never need to rely on the sword, you’ll never need to fight’. So, every time Israel uses a sword you can know that it’s reflecting their lack of faith in Yahweh.”

At our recent offline Gathering, Mark Vernon – former Anglican Priest, turned atheist, turned Christian agnostic – led us in a Buddhist inspired meditation. To get the full benefit from this, you might want to sit near some other people (e.g. in a cafe, the library, or park, etc.) as it’s all about how we perceive ourselves in relation to others.


Image provided by Mark Vernon. Used with permission.

This podcast comes to you from Nomad’s first offline Gathering. We had a great weekend of food, drink, conversation, music and meditation. We also interviewed Mark Vernon. Mark was an Anglican priest but developed deep doubts about the faith. His subsequent journey took him through atheism, to agnosticism, through ancient Greek philosophy, to a Christian faith that sees doubt and uncertainty as integral parts.

Interview starts at 8m 39s 


Image provided by Mark Vernon. Used with permission.


BOOKS

How To Be An Agnostic

The Meaning of Friendship

Love: All That Matters

QUOTES

“I think you’ve got to have faith to doubt with hope.”

“We do need some certainty in order to live so I think that the need for some certainty is not of itself something to chastise people for. But I think it’s a question of whether that becomes rigid so that it squeezes out the space for genuine searching and doubt and uncertainty as well.”

We recently invited the beloved listener to Nottingham for Nomad’s first offline get-together. It was a splendid weekend of conversation, interviews, music, food and drink. And we recorded some of it for you. First up is a Q&A we did on the Friday night, where David Benjamin Blower asked us about the Nomad story and what impact the last few years of podcasting has had on our faith. Personally, I think we’re much better at interviewing people than we are at being interviewed, but nevertheless I hope you enjoy the podcast!


Images by Chris Donald & Dave Fry. Used with permission.


Image by Elysia Willis. Used with permission.


QUOTES

“It was actually the listener really that forced us to re-examine our faith and as we did re-examine our faith, it all started to change.”

“Every generation has to doubt, we have to question, we have to look at what we’ve inherited and see if it’s helping us to love God and love our neighbour as we love ourselves.”

 “I think I see faith now more as trust so that even though I might not be sure about what I believe and what I don’t, I trust God, I trust that God looks like Jesus and I want to follow him even if I’m not sure about the kind of doctrine I’ve inherited.”

We recently attended the Creature Conference, put on by Sarx. We spent the day pondering the question ‘Is Christianity Good News for Animals?’ Animal welfare used to be seen as an important expression of the gospel for leaders such as Spurgeon, Wesley, C. S. Lewis and many others. But more recently it seems to have dropped off the Church’s agenda. So we asked theological ethicists Prof. David Clough, and Christian leaders Tony CampoloSteve ChalkeRuth Valerio, and founder of the animal welfare charity Sarx, Darrel Booth, why we’ve lost sight of this, and how Christianity can again become good news for animals.

Interview starts at 7m 9s


Images provided by David Clough, Tony Campolo, Oasis UK & Ruth Valerio. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Animals Are Not Ours: An Evangelical Liberation Theology

Animal Gospel

A Faith Embracing All Creatures

Animal Theology

Living With Other Creatures

WEBSITES

Sarx

CreatureKind

QUOTES

“It seems to me that we’ve developed industrialised factory farming systems with zero level of regard for what it would mean to take seriously the flourishing of animal lives… if we were trying to design a system where there was nothing else that mattered ethically other than the most efficient way of supplying material for human ends without any regard, intensive factory farming of animals is the system we would design and that seems to me unholy.”

“Jesus made clear to his disciples that the way you image God and be faithful as servants of God is to be servants, and so I think we need to understand the image of God as not some kind of divine stamp that gives us authorisation for exploiting other creatures without measure, but an awesome and high responsibility to think seriously about what it would mean to bring God to the rest of creation in our dealings with them.”

We thought it was about time we had a fresh look at the central symbol of our faith, the cross. So we headed off to Tom Wright’s house to asked him how the cross launched Jesus’s revolution, and why after 2000 year does it often look like the revolution is struggling to transform the world. 

Interview starts at 6m 23s


Image provided by University of St Andrews Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Day the Revolution Began: Rethinking The Meaning Of Jesus’ Crucifixion

Surprised by Hope

QUOTES

“Humans worship these powers because they give you a cheap thrill. That’s what idolatry does, it enables you to get a sudden rush, of whatever it is you want, without paying the price of actually being obedient to the creator God. Result is these powers, these forces say thank you very much, I’m now in charge now and you’re going to do what I tell you to do.”

“The image of the cross is not an image of God Himself doing violence, it’s an image of violence doing it’s worst against God, it’s of God coming to the very epicentre of human horror and taking the worst that the world can do onto himself.”

For those of us who have been through some kind of faith deconstruction, spiritual practices often take on a new significance, as we seek to connect with God without what often feels like restrictive doctrinal and organisational frameworks. Scottish theologian and activist Alastair McIntosh recently wrote Poacher’s Pilgrimage about a soulful journey he took across the Islands of the Outer Hebrides. So we invited him on the podcast to explore with us the importance of the ancient practice of pilgrimage. 

Interview starts at 12m 1s


Image provided by Alastair McIntosh. Used with permission.


PERMISSIONS

This episode features the song Homage to Young Men which is used with permission by Nizlopi

BOOKS

Poachers Pilgrimage: An Island Journey

Soil and Soul: People Versus Corporate Power

QUOTES

“Seeing ahead of me this fiery cross, this burning cross, of which the fire was the fire of love and walking, walking, walking, every next step walking deeper and deeper into the Holy Cross of love.”

“This is glimpse of what Theology calls the communion of the saints. That we are all members one of another, we are all branches son the vine of life, outside of space and time, everything that has ever been, or ever will be and what is right here now is in this sacrament of the present moment.”

Lent is upon us once again. A wonderful counter-cultural season where we reflect on those things we might need to give up. So we asked Brian Draper to send us something that would help guide us through this time. And he came up trumps with a reflection on the transforming power of stillness. So tune in if you’re feeling overwhelmed, stressed out and frazzled, and join us as we commit to intentional stillness through Lent.


Image provided by Brian Draper. Used with permission.

If you want more from Brian then make sure you tune into our fascinating conversation with him Mindfulness: The Doorway to the Soul?

We’ve been wanting to do an episode on money for a while now, so when the Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby put pen to paper and wrote his first book – Dethroning Mammon– all about the dangers of moneywe seized upon the opportunity and headed off for Lambeth Palace. We asked the Archbishop what his life experience has taught him about money and how it shapes what we value and where we place our identity. Tune into the podcast for a honest, humble and insightful conversation.

Interview starts at 6m 27s


Image provided by The Office of the Archbishop of Canterbury. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Dethroning Mammon: Making Money Serve Grace

Reimagining Britain: Foundations for Hope

QUOTES

“It’s not wrong to measure things, it is wrong to let the measuring dominate the way we think.”

“I found that there was no sense that I was anyone different to who I thought I was, I was who I was in Jesus Christ and nothing else.”

In both Liverpool and Bradford, Barbara Glasson has drawn together communities that have provided safe, honest, authentic spaces for the poor, marginalised, disillusioned, and people from other faiths and none. As well as being a spiritual home for these people, she believes they have an important message for the mainstream church. So we ask Barbara how she formed these communities, and what wisdom she has gained along the way. So tune in for a conversation full of insight, challenge and humility.

Interview starts at 7m 47s.


Image by Alex Baker. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Exuberant Church

Mixed-up Blessing: A New Encounter with Being Church

So What’s The Story?: A resource book for Christian reflection and practice

QUOTES

“What the bread did was allow people to tell their story quite naturally and easily, and quite deeply and profoundly, in ways where it didn’t become a big disclosure, a big revelation, and I think that it’s something perhaps in our society that the church could help with, if we found those safe enough spaces for people to do that.”

“[People on the margins] are saying to the institution, you’re a broken body, you’re broken like us, so stop pretending that we’re going to make Christendom happen again and everybody’s just going to go “Oh, we love Jesus” and come flocking back into church and that will all be hunky-dory. We are broken, the church is broken and that’s how Jesus is with us, in the brokenness, so don’t be afraid, be prepared to listen and be prepared to listen to some stuff that is really challenging and hard or doesn’t perhaps make sense in a logical way. Open yourself up to that and in that, find a new way of being together, a new way of relating with each other.”

Priest, poet and feminist theologian, Rachel Mann is a trans-woman. From an early age she had a profound sense that her body didn’t reflect her gender. After a long, frustrating and painful journey she emerged into the woman she is today. We ask Rachel to look back over this transition and reflect on what it means to be human, what place gender has in our identity, and what she’s learnt from seeing the word through male and female eyes.

Interview begins at 9m 58s


Image provided by Rachel Mann. Used with permission.

BOOKS

Dazzling Darkness

QUOTES

“Our humanity is not to be simply reduced to essentialist categories and I do think an invitation to us all, whether we are trans or not trans, is to see that gendered categories are not the measure of us all. And for me as I have said earlier, in transitioning, this wasn’t about me somehow wanting to go against nature, wanting to go against God, it was in order to be in a place where I could begin to live life in the kind of way that I hope we all live life, so that you are in a position to actually encounter transcendence, encounter God, encounter good news. And curiously it wasn’t until I transitioned that I was in a position where I could encounter the good news.”

“He has often been the God who is there in solidarity with us. I’ve often used the phrase ‘The God who operates in the shade’, in the places of darkness, who reveals that the places of darkness aren’t to be treated simply as negative places, but places of becoming… It is the God of becoming who is fundamental to me, but also the God who is unafraid of woundedness, of damage, of vulnerability… One of the iconic representations of that is the cross, of course, but it is also actually to be found in resurrection. The Christ who comes to us, who is the resurrected God, also bears the marks of the wounds.”

What are 21st Century educated, questioning Christians supposed to make of the Devil and evil spirits? Are they literal spiritual beings who spend their time trying to lure us into sinful acts? Or should we see them as metaphors for social injustices that we need to confront? We ask professor of psychologyauthor and blogger Richard Beck.

Interview begins at 6m


Image provided by Richard Beck. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Reviving Old Scratch: Demons and the Devil for Doubters and the Disenchanted

The Slavery of Death

WEBSITE

Experimental Theology

QUOTES

“When you doubt that there is a spiritual struggle going on, when you lack a theology of revolt, when you lack that warfare world view, all you have when you face suffering is this big theological puzzle that erodes your faith. And so for me, revitalising a theology of revolt, a vision of spiritual warfare is the kind of thing that kept me engaged in the face of suffering as I encountered it, and called me to action rather than left me ruminating.“

“Doubt and humility make us more hospitable to other people, so progressive and liberal Christians tend to be really good conversation partners with atheists and people from different faiths and that’s the positive side of doubt.”

“You have to turn towards reconstruction. How do you do that? I think spiritual warfare, revitalising a view of getting in the game, getting back in the fight instead of turning things like the problem of suffering into a logical puzzle, is a part of it. Also I think we have to find ways of reconnecting with enchantment and transcendence and mystery. I think we have to invest in community. I think it’s hard for some liberal and progressive Christians to invest in Christian community because they have negative feelings about a church of their childhood but I think it’s important to let other people carry our burden.”

It’s that time of the year again! We thought we’d have a week off interviewing, and so we’ve arranged a little Christmas reflection for you. Nicola Slee is a feminist practice theologian and poet who is currently director of research at The Queen’s Foundation of Ecumenical Theological Education in Birmingham. In this podcast, Nicola reflects the implications of Jesus being born a girl. Now there’s something for you to ponder over your mince pies and mulled wine!


Image provided by Nicola Slee. Used with permission.

Sally Smith joins us for the third part of our series on the migrant crisis. In this episode we hear about the fascinating and inspiring story that emerged when Sally opened the doors of her dying church to asylum seekers and refugees. She’s seen large numbers come to faith, she’s reunited mothers with their children, she’s personally housed refugee families, and her church has become a hub for work with the most vulnerable in Stoke. 

Interview starts at 6:41


Image provided by Sally Smith. Used with permission.


WEBSITE

Sanctus: Supporting Asylum Seekers and Refugees

QUOTES

“It’s not really about doctrine, it’s about love, it’s about welcoming Jesus… I really believe that when we welcome Asylum seekers and refugees, when we welcome anybody in the name of Jesus we are welcoming Jesus himself.”

“One of the beautiful things about Sanctus and the people who come is, I say you’ve been born into a new kingdom where everybody belongs and there are no passports needed and no border agency, no immigration detention centre… everybody is equal. There is neither Jew nor Greek nor slave nor free nor male nor female. It doesn’t matter what the home office says about you… we are now one family and we come together with the Eucharist.”

Our regular listeners will remember our Welcome the Stranger refugee special where we looked at the crisis through the eyes of a Syrian refugee and a refugee charity worker. The aim was to raise awareness and money through the sale of David Benjamin Blower‘s album Welcome the Stranger. On this week’s podcast, we’re looking at the crisis through the eyes of Dave Smith who started The Boaz Trust, a charity that works with destitute asylum seekers. 

Interview begins at 7m 12s


Image provided by Dave Smith. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Book of Boaz: Jesus and His Family Sought Asylum – What Welcome Would They Have Found in Modern Britain?

Refugee Stories: Seven Personal Stories Behind the Headlines

QUOTES

“[Failed asylum seekers] just have no rights…if you’re a [stray] dog at least you can get a kennel…and you get fed. Asylum seekers don’t if they are refused. And people say ‘well aren’t they sent back straight away?’ And the answer is no they are not…after a period of time they can be detained…until they are deported. To actually get support at that stage is very difficult.”

“No I don’t think everybody has to get involved in this. I think everybody has to be involved in something. As you read the scriptures you see that social justice is so important in there. God is a God of justice … everybody needs to get involved somewhere.” 

Gungor – a multi-grammy nominated Christian band – were the toast of the evangelical worship scene. That is until it became clear that Michael was having significant doubts about his faith. This did not go down well among evangelicals, to say the least. So we talk with Michael and his wife Lisa about the impact this faith deconstruction had on their music, their careers and, more significantly, their marriage.

Interview starts at 4m 55s.


Image provided by The Liturgists. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Most Beautiful Thing I’ve Seen

This: Becoming Free

WEBSITES

The Liturgists

Gungor

QUOTES

“If I had been working a normal job and hanging out with friends who didn’t care what I believed all the time, I would have deconstructed a lot sooner…I needed to hold onto Christianity and my beliefs to keep my world afloat.’’

 “It’s not your job, church…to change anybody…you’re the body of Christ, there to be present, to serve and to love with the love of Christ.”

Brian McLaren has a knack for articulating what many of us are feeling. For a decade he has been the voice of those Christians who are concerned about, for example, the Church’s overemphasis on doctrinal belief, its lack of inclusivity, and its lack of concern for the many global issues we are facing.

In his latest book – The Great Spiritual Migration – he draws together all these themes into a manifesto for a new Christian movement, one that seeks nothing less than the healing of the world.

Interview begins at 8m 1s


Image provided by Hannah Davis. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Great Spiritual Migration: How the World’s Largest Religion is Seeking a Better Way to Be Christian

A New Kind of Christianity: Ten Questions that are Transforming the Faith

QUOTES

“We need to organise people to be agents of concern for the planet, concern for the poor, agents of peace and people who go out to respect and promote the flourishing of all people.”

“People learn passion, and when you’ve been passionately hurt, you can either get passionately angry and bitter, or you can get passionately determined to bring healing … and that’s where I see a lot of hope.”

Mark Yaconelli is – among many other things – a storyteller. Such is his belief in the power of stories that he founded The Hearth, a gathering of local people who simply share their own stories. Mark has seen this simple gathering profoundly impact his local community. So we ask Mark why it is that stories can have this effect, and what role stories played in his own ‘dark night of the soul’. So tune into the podcast to rediscover the ancient practice of storytelling.

Interview begins at 7m 6s


Image provided by Mark Yaconelli. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Disappointment, Doubt and Other Spiritual Gifts: Reflections on Life and Ministry

QUOTES

“The Christian faith is not about providing the answers, it’s about trying to help people fall in love with life…no matter what’s happening.”

“[Storytelling] is a kind of communion where suddenly we’re all sharing the very same experience. And as a Christian, that’s the way the faith has been passed on… and you can suddenly experience moments together that people were writing about thousands of years ago.”

“A story is not about right or wrong, true or false, a story is what you’ve lived…it’s possible for compassion to rise up in me about an issue I’ve been defended against.”

Kester Brewin was founder of one the UK’s most creative and innovative alternative worship communities, Vaux. He went onto write The Complex Christ, a critically acclaimed book calling for an emerging Church. But over the following years he began to realise that Christianity was just another means of trying to escape his childhood pain. Tune into the podcast if your ready for a challenging and important critique of the Christian faith.

Interview starts at 8m 15s


Image provided by Kester Brewin. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Getting High: A Savage Journey to the Heart of the Dream of Flight

After Magic

Mutiny! Why We Love Pirates, And How They Can Save Us

Other: Embracing Difference in a Fractured World

The Complex Christ: Signs of Emergence in the Urban Church

QUOTES

“Within my family, the tragedy was that because we could pray about it, that meant we didn’t need to talk about it, and because Jesus had it all under control, actually we never had a single day, minute or hour of family therapy or counselling or any kind of mechanism to talk  about what was going on between us.”

“There are God’s all over the place. There are systems and structures that demand… so much from us, that actually it can reduce and diminish our humanity. So, my project is not to help people to stop believing in God, it’s to say recognise where the gods are in your life…Once we have them killed those gods, we can then better love one another.”

Christianity can be quite a disembodied faith. Muslim’s have prayer positions, Hindu’s have yoga, Buddhists have Tai-Chi, whereas Christians tend to pray with little more than a bowed head. We ask theologian Paula Gooder why Christians have separated the spiritual from the physical, and what damage this has done for the faith. And we ask how our faith might be reshaped if we approached it in a more holistic and embodied way.

Interview starts at 6m 10s


Image provided by Paula Gooder. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Body: Biblical Spirituality for the Whole Person

QUOTES

“If we just think that praying happens when you sit very still and do something with your inner life then actually we lose something which is really important.”

“If the world is coming to an end, it doesn’t really matter how badly we treat it does it…Whereas, when you begin to put back in to an understanding that actually it’s not that this world is coming to an end but is going to be renewed and transformed into a new heaven and a new earth then actually it’s really appalling how we treat the environment rather than of no consequence whatsoever.”

Mindfulness has exploded in popularity over recent years, with seemingly every other community centre, school, health service and therapist offering it. But what benefit, if any, does it offer the follower of Jesus?

Author, speaker and retreat leader, Brian Draper, believes it has a vital role in Christian spirituality, but only as a doorway to something much deeper, embodied and life-giving.

Interview starts at 8m 30s


Image provided by Brian Draper. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Soulfulness: Deepening the Mindful Life

Less is More: Spirituality For Busy Lives

What Matters Most?: Finding Spiritual Treasure In Everyday Life

Spiritual Intelligence: A New Way Of Being

QUOTES

“As we Practice stillness, as we discover more of the person, the assured, present person that God has created us to be, then we are better able to see the insecure, anxious chattering of the mind for what it is. And the mind slowly, gently, is transformed.”

“The soulful way, … is to embrace the brokenness of life…. The downside as well as the upside. And wholeness, which I believe soulfulness really points us to, is about embracing the difficulty and the darkness as well as the light and the happiness.”

With the dust just beginning to settle after Britain’s decision to leave the European Union, we thought we’d take the opportunity to look at our relationship with politics. Was Jesus political? Should Christians engage in party politics, or should they be a prophetic voice from the margins? We bring these, and many other questions to political theologian Roger Mitchell. Roger is an honorary research fellow in the Department of Politics, Philosophy and Religion at the University of Lancaster and on the faculty of the Westminster Theological Centre. So he knows a thing or two about religion and about politics. So tune in for an insightful and challenging conversation! 


Image provided by Roger Mitchell. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Discovering Kenarchy: Contemporary Resources for the Politics of Love

The Fall of the Church

QUOTES

The gospel itself is political from the word go – if you come saying the empire of God is at hand when clearly the great issue is the empire of Rome has occupied the nation, then clearly, this is a political statement.”

“When he [Jesus] says the kingdom of God is at hand – you can reach out and touch it – and the only way that makes any sense is in his introduction to himself; the way he lives his life, his teachings, his miracles, his relationship with his friends – all of that is a manifestation of what the kingdom of God is like, or as I would say, what the politics of Jesus looks like.”

“What is it, if you go through Matthew, Mark, and Luke, and John, in their different perspectives on Jesus, what do you find are the things that are coming out that are on his [Jesus’] priority list, and, just quickly [they are]; reinstating women, prioritising children, advocating for the poor, welcoming strangers, reintegrating humanity and creation, freeing prisoners, caring for the sick — so then the question becomes…if you follow Jesus’ kind of strategy, he didn’t do this by joining any of the obvious [political] parties of his day, he did this by living it out at grassroots level…I think it’s still appropriate to ask the question, in our time, while we try to live this out at grassroots level, are there any political parties who are creating more space for this than others?”    

Is faith based purely on belief, and a strong faith holding to those beliefs with certainty? If so, what happens when our beliefs evolve and shift? Prof. Peter Enns  believes that we’ve misunderstood the nature of faith, and it is actually trust rather than certainty that lays at it’s heart. And it is this trust that can withstand the inevitable uncertainties, questions, and doubts that come our way. So tune in for a really engaging conversation.

Interview starts at 8m 50s


Image provided by Baker Publishing. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Bible Tells Me So: Why defending Scripture has Made us Unable to Read It

The Sin of Certainty: Why God Desires Our Trust More Than Our “Correct” Beliefs

How the Bible Actually Works: In which I Explain how an Ancient, Ambiguous, and Diverse Book Leads us to Wisdom rather than Answers

QUOTES

“The sin of certainty is the visceral reactive mode where you hold on to certainty when you feel you’re losing it. So I think certainty can be, to use the term the evangelicals like to use; it can be an idol, where you feel the mysteries of the universe, like God, are under your control and you pretty much have it all figured out, and I think God, by God’s mercy, will take us beyond that certainty to a place of growth – where that place of growth is, like most growth, can be unsettling and frightening. So the sin of certainty is to want to go back to the way things were before, to be able to patch things up.”

“I think that’s what people are looking for [in a leader], they’re looking for authenticity in faith, they’re looking for people to say, I’m struggling with this. I’d love to see pastors preach about their own struggle with certain things and how resolving them has been not so much, “now I know the answer and here it is” but, “I’m learning to walk with God differently through this crisis or this doubt.”

The question ‘who is God?’ used to be the starting point for religious reflection, but increasingly spiritual seekers are concerning themselves with the question ‘where is God?’. We ask historian, religious commentator and author Diana Butler Bass about her faith journey and how her shift from a vertical to a horizontal theology dramatically reshaped her faith and understanding of Church.

Interview starts at 6m 16s


Image provided by Diana Butler Bass. Used with permission. 


BOOKS

Grounded: Finding God in the World-A Spiritual Revolution

Christianity for the Rest of Us: How the Neighborhood Church Is Transforming the Faith

A People’s History of Christianity: The Other Side of the Story

QUOTES

“I was still hanging on to the shards of a universe that was structured vertically, which is that God lives in heaven, we’re here on earth and the possibility of hell looms under our feet. And I think it’s this vertical construct that so many people just don’t believe in any more – science doesn’t have anything to say about that – we’ve moved completely away from that in science; philosophy has abandoned the construct; and so theology is still sitting in this space where we’re holding on to this ancient construct that may or may not be biblical – I actually think it was in the Bible more because of culture than it having any relationship to reality from God’s perspective.”

“I’ve relocated the idea of transcendence to the horizon. Rather than thinking of God’s transcendence as up, I’ve started thinking of God’s transcendence as just beyond our sight lines. And so, that idea of a horizon, being a horizon of faith, is very powerful – that we live in a sort of horizontal landscape where God is both close and God is far away but God’s distance is not such that we have to get in a rocket ship to get to God but instead we just keep moving towards the horizon – and then there’s that mystery, of course, that the horizon always moves the closer you get to it.”

Why in our multicultural society is the Church still predominantly led by, and our theology predominantly written by, white men? We head to Birmingham to meet up with one of the UK’s leading black theologians, Anthony Reddie. We ask him if the Church is racist and if so what we can do about it? And, what difference would it make to our understanding of God and what he is doing in the world if we read the Bible through black eyes?

Interview starts at 8m 45s


Image provided by Anthony Reddie. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Is God Colour-Blind?: Insights From Black Theology For Christian Ministry

Black Theology, Slavery and Contemporary Christianity

QUOTES

“I would agree with James Cone who is the kind of founding father of black liberation theology in that I was black before I was Christian. When I was born I was black and although Christianity is a hugely important part of my identity there have been lots of times where being a Christian has made any difference to me … When I walk into a room people don’t say aha there’s a Christian – although clearly I would like to hope that my sense of wholeness might exude something – but the fact is what they see is a black person. Therefore my social reality is not defined by being a Christian it is defined actually by being black.”

“[I was] taught white theology, but it just wasn’t named as white theology and that I think again is part of the conceit and part of the privilege that sits with whiteness that it is whiteness that then gets to define itself as being universal whereas all the other theologies are, at best, contextual and they give you a glimpse of, and at worse they have no reason to belong at all.”

We have a humanitarian disaster unfolding on our doorstep. Many of us feel frustrated at our government’s half-hearted response, yet we feel overwhelmed and powerless to do anything ourselves.

In this episode we hear the story of Adel Hamad, a Syrian refugee who made the trip to the UK. We then hear from Naomi Jemmett, who works with refugee children who have made similar journeys. And finally we hear from musician and activist, David Benjamin Blower. David has written an album – Welcome the Stranger – that tells the heartbreaking stories of refugees and lifts the veil on the forces that lie behind the crisis.


Image provided by David Blower, Naomi Jemmett & Adel Hamad. Used with permission.


WEBSITE

David Benjamin Blower – Bandcamp

QUOTES

“It’s actually a very difficult process to prove that you are a refugee and to actually be granted status so we know that about 70% of applications are not successful. You have to have proof, you have to have evidence, you have to have good legal advice, you have to obviously be able to communicate and understand letters that come to you so it’s very easy for people to maybe misunderstand the systems that they are in and if they aren’t being properly advised during it they might well find themselves having been refused and not really understanding what’s happened.”

“In 2015 we know that there were 95,000 unaccompanied children in Europe who claimed asylum. So 3,000 of those have managed to get to the UK so it’s a small percentage of the unaccompanied children who we know are currently in Europe .. I think the risks that these children are being exposed to I mean the media have been picking up quite a lot on it recently, the risks of exploitation, trafficking, smuggling, the amount of children who have actually gone missing. There are real concerns about the amount of these unaccompanied children in Europe and their safety.”

“I’ve grown up through Thatcher, through Blair’s Labour, now this Tory government. A very sort of capitalist, consumerist, individualist kind of society has been the only one I’ve known really and I’ve seen the kind of social and spiritual numbing effect that that has had on me and my generation and I think we are becoming a profoundly disconnected kind of people. We are losing the ability to be communal beings. Community is so so difficult to find in my land, in my country and I think gradually we are heading somewhere bad. It doesn’t lead to good places living that way. I don’t think this is how God meant for human beings in his image to live, all alone together.”

Why is the Church divided into over 40,000 denominations? Why do Churches in the same town often have very little to do with each other? Why are Christians always fighting on social media? It doesn’t seem much like the one new humanity Jesus came to establish! To find some answers we quiz social psychologist, Christena Cleveland.

Interview starts at 7m 18s 


Image provided by Christena Cleveland. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Disunity in Christ: Uncovering the Hidden Forces that Keep Us Apart

QUOTES

“In the secular world or in the academic world, all of the research on diversity in groups shows that diverse groups might experience more conflict because there are more perspectives to take into account but overall they are healthier groups because they keep growing and having a diversity of perspectives is actually strengthening, actually adaptive.”

“We build these close knit groups and in a lot of ways that’s a good thing. (I mean group formation is pro social in a lot of ways.) The downside of that it that when we form a group with people we tend to form a group in a circle that includes us but excludes everybody else and so my identity is wrapped up in my church.”

Professor Gary Burge joins us on the podcast to help us get our heads round the complexities of Israel/Palestine. Gary was a student at the university of Beirut, he now lecturers in the US on the New Testament and the Theology of the Promised Land. He regularly visits the Middle East and has close connections to Christian leaders from Damascus to Jerusalem to Cairo. So tune in if you’re wrestling with Whose Land? Whose Promise?

Interview starts at 5m 56s.


Image provided by Baker Publishing. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Whose Land? Whose Promise?

Jesus and the Land: The New Testament Challenge to “Holy Land” Theology

QUOTES

“In American politics there’s a sense that…America needs to stand behind Israel because America’s prosperity is tied to the blessing of Israel.”

“Israel destroyed over 400 Palestinian villages in the country…..it was just a remarkable thing…If anyone visits Israel as a tourist and asks a guide ‘please would you show me one of these villages’, they would not show them to you. This is the great secret of Israel. In some cases these villages have forests planted over them. I have heard of tourists seeing the ruins accidentally and assuming they were Biblical ruins from some Bible time but actually they are Palestinian villages.”

“I have many friends in the [Christian Palestinian] community and when they listen to Christian Zionism…what they feel is this: Western Christians are more committed to their eschatology than they are to their ethics. That Western Christians are more excited about the fulfilment of prophecy in the Jewish community and the city of Jerusalem than they are excited about the prosperity of their brothers and sisters in Christ. They wonder ‘why are we invisible to you when we share your faith?’”

Apparently the vast majority of us feel uncomfortable talking about death, and haven’t spoken to anyone about our end of life wishes. Buddhist, Jon Underwood thinks this is having a profoundly negative effect on our society. So he pioneered the Death Cafe movement where people gather together, drink tea, eat cake and talk openly and honestly about death.

Interview begins at 4m 19s

Sadly, Jon Underwood died suddenly the year after this interview. For more details visit the Death Cafe blog.


Image provided by Jules Barsky & taken by Dean Brannagan. Used with permission.


WEBSITE

Death Cafe

QUOTES

“If you recognise that life is one day going to end you obviously recognise that…there’s a limited amount of time left, that time is getting shorter and you don’t know how long that period is. Life could end today…Death cafe doesn’t advance any philosophy of how people should live their lives…but bringing death to mind can cause us to ask those questions.”

“Death can shake us beyond cultural constraints and make us ask serious questions about what life is actually about.”

Wayne Jacobsen was a successful pastor. But as his disillusionment with the institutional nature of church grew, he decided to walk away and begin a search for the church Jesus was building. 20 years later he says this was one of the best decisions he ever made. So tune in if you’re curious about the sort of Church Jesus had in mind.

Interview begins at 6m 4s.


Image provided by Wayne Jacobsen. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Finding Church: What If There Really Is Something More

Beyond Sundays

QUOTES

“By not defining it and not giving us a programme he was telling us all we need to know about the Church.” 

“Structure is like our skeleton, any time you’re seeing your skeleton it’s not good. The skeleton supports the life. What happens in our institutions is the structure lives on once the life has gone.” 

In our sixth instalment of our Pentecost for Progressives series, we bring you Roger Mitchell.

Roger is an Honorary Research Fellow at Lancaster University and has pioneered a movement around the idea of Kenarchy, by which he means ‘self emptying power’. And it is this theme he skilfully weaves into a Pentecost refection.


Image provided by Roger Mitchell. Used with permission.

Rachel Mann brings us our fifth Pentecost for Progressives reflection. Rachel is a Church of England priest, and is poet in Residence at Manchester Cathedral. She’s also transgender, and brings something of her experience of wrestling with identity and faith to this fascinating reflection.


Image provided by Rachel Mann. Used with permission.

Our journey towards Pentecost continues. This week’s refection comes from freelance community theologian and author, Ann Morisy. Ann has researched and written on everything from the spirituality of public transport, through to the spirituality of ageing. But for us, she turns her attention to Pentecost.


Image provided by Ann Morisy. Used with permission.

We’ve got a new Nomad Spirituality series for you, Pentecost for Progressives. Each week between Easter and Pentecost we’ll be giving you a reflection from someone who’s been through a faith shift/deconstruction, or who just views the faith with a critical eye. We asked them the question, what does Pentecost/Holy Spirit mean to you now?

First up is Barbara Glasson. Barbara started an inclusive faith community in Liverpool centred around baking bread. She went on to work with lesbian, gay and transgendered Christians, and with survivors of childhood sexual abuse. She’s now doing interfaith work with Muslims in Bradford.


Image by Alex Baker. Used with permission.

As well as our usual interview shows we like to give you some food for thought focussed around the Church Calendar. This Easter we’ve asked the Jesuit Priest, Father James Martin to reflect on how he relates to the suffering and resurrected Jesus.


Image provided by James Martin. Used with permission.

If you want more of Father Martin, then check out his many excellent books and America, the Jesuit magazine he is editor-at-large of.

Easter is upon us again, so we thought it was a fine time to look at the atonement again. So we popped over to Bristol to chat with Alan Mann. Alan asks the question, what could the atonement mean for a society that doesn’t consider itself sinful in any traditional sense. Rather than ‘sin’ Alan believes the issue we now face is shame and it is this that Jesus’s death needs to set us free from. So tune in for an intriguing conversation.

Interview starts at 5m 39s


Image provided by Alan Mann. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Atonement for a Sinless Society

QUOTES

“The christian community sometimes defines what sin has to be which feels quite narrow, we have a way of talking about sin which I think biblically has become quite narrow… it’s become trivialised, people don’t really see themselves as sinful.”

“I think people do understand that they’re not doing this ‘being human thing’ in the way it should be done. For me that’s where the gospel becomes relevant because Jesus did do this ‘being human thing’ in the way it should be done, in the way God intended.” 

“There’s a sense in which we could say that if somebody is not reconciled to themselves, then how can they be reconciled to someone else, or to god.”

Robin Parry is a theologian best known for advocating universalism. But more recently he’s turned his attention to writing about The Biblical Cosmos. In this book he systematically lays out all the weirdness of the biblical universe, with its flat earth, the dead residing underneath it and God residing above a solid sky dome. Oh, and there’s sea monsters and angel-stars for good measure. The question is then, how do we relate to a God who lives in this universe?


Image provided by Robin Parry. Used with permission.

BOOKS

The Biblical Cosmos: A Pilgrim’s Guide to the Weird and Wonderful World of the Bible

The Evangelical Universalist: The Biblical Hope That God’s Love Will Save Us All

QUOTES

“I think if we have confidence in the scriptures as the word of God then we can be free to let the text be something else, and that’s precisely how it challenges us.”

“This idea of the cosmos that you see in the bible is one in which ordinary everyday things like river and streams and moving around physical space is invested with meaning and all of these things point not away from themselves, but beyond themselves, to God.”

“I became quite comfortable with the idea that God could speak through a myth that isn’t necessarily true at a literal historical level.”

On Nomad we often talk about the changing nature of culture and how the church has changed (or not) in response. But rather than continuing to rely on our own anecdotal and wildly speculative evidence, we thought it was about time we spoke to someone who actually knows what they’re talking about. Grace Davie is a professor in the sociology of religion and wrote the influential book Religion in Britain Since 1945: Believing Without Belonging. So she seemed like the perfect person to speak to about exactly what’s going on.

Interview starts at 4m 20s


Image provided by Grace Davie. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Religion in Britain Since 1945: Believing Without Belonging

Religion in Britain: A Persistent Paradox

QUOTES

“In my view the church is at a turning point now… the church has really got to work out what it wants to sustain and what is a millstone that is being dragged along.”

“We need a good institution, a healthy institution, and more people than you think are investing in that notion.”

Jamie Arpin-Ricci joins us on the latest leg of our Nomadic pilgrimage of hope. Jamie felt called to leave his comfortable middle class life and move to a high poverty and crime inner-city area. Obviously this presented many challenges, but none more so than being confronted by his own vulnerability. So we ask Jamie to reflect on what it means to make ourselves vulnerable before God and those around us, and how this can shape the communities we’re apart of.

Interview starts at 5m 43s. 


Image provided by Jamie Arpin-Ricci. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Cost of Community: Jesus, St. Francis and Life in the Kingdom

Vulnerable Faith: Missional Living in the Radical Way of St. Patrick

QUOTES

“There were unspoken assumptions as to why people were poor. Why people were addicted or why people made the choices they made. Even racial prejudices. I prided myself as being someone who wasn’t racist. I didn’t think negatively about other races or consider them inferior, but the reality is if you’re white in the world today there is an inescapable inculturation that we have all grown up in where we still view the other through a lens that is inevitably judging them against our own standard. And I began to recognise how easily by the colour of someones skin I would identify them as the target of mission, that they had something to receive and I had something to give.”

“Over the last year I’ve been diagnosed with PTSD, which probably got its start, or at least was exacerbated significantly, when I saw my friend Andrew commit suicide and further made worse by other events in ministry in the neighbourhood. And it really started to destabilise me and impact my ability to be a husband, to be a father and to be a pastor and eventually I had to go okay I need to get help and start getting counselling and learn to manage this. And all of a sudden I went from being the pastor of a church that works with people with mental illness to the pastor with mental illness and it was humbling. Yet at the same time my community came around me and supported me.”

The UN said recently that ‘Gender-based violence is perhaps the most widespread and socially tolerated of human rights violations.’ We spoke to philosopher, sociologist and theologian Elaine Storkey about the reasons behind this, and how the church should respond. This led on to a fascinating discussion about what it really means to be a man. Tune in for an eye-opening, challenging and hope-filled conversation.

Interview begins at 3m 36s


Image provided by SPCK Publishing. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Scars Across Humanity: Understanding and Overcoming Violence Against Women

QUOTES

“Almost every society on earth practices some form of violence against women, which becomes institutionalised in that society. So for many [women] this is perfectly normal, there’s nothing odd about it. It’s just normal.”

“Your journey [as a man] is finding out what it means to be you. The touchstone is to be a human being, what is it to be a human being and it is to be someone created by God to love. And to give and to share and to bless and to heal and to build up and not to destroy.”

Terry Waite travelled to some of the most dangerous places in the world, negotiating with the likes of Idi Amin and Colonel Gaddafi for the release of hostages. Then while working in Lebanon he was taken hostage by Islamic Jihadists. He was held for nearly 5 years, most of it in solitary confinement, was tortured and underwent a mock execution.

Tune into the podcast for an incredible story of humility, grace and finding God in the darkest of places.

Interview starts at 7m 41s


Image used with permission.


BOOKS

Taken on Trust

Solitude: Memories, People, Places

QUOTES

“I was pushed across the room.  When I took the blindfold off I was in a tiled cell and that was, I realized then that I was a captive.  And I remember saying three things to myself.  No regrets.  Don’t regret.  You’ve done what you can and so live with that.  No self pity.  Don’t feel sorry for yourself because there are many people who are in far worse situations than you are and no over-sentimentality. Don’t say, Oh if only I’d been a better husband, a better father.  You can’t relive the past.  You live with yourself as you are.  Make something of it from that point on.  And I can’t say that I kept those things exactly but at least I did my best to stand by them.”

“One of the good things about experiencing what some might think is a rather negative period in life being trapped and in prison is that you can always turn it round.  Misfortunes very often can be turned round and used creatively. And I found that over the years to be the case.” 

Last year we gave you our ’12 Days of Christmas’ reflections. We’re adding to that series with a reflection by the director of the missional community InnerChange, John Hayes. John reflects on the contradictions inherent in our modern celebration of Christmas.


Image provided by Baker Publishing. Used with permission.

Want more? Then have a read of John’s excellent book Sub-merge: Living Deep in a Shallow World.

On this edition of Nomad we thought we’d answer a few of your questions. Everything from ‘Who are you two?’, through to ‘Is there a north-south divide in heaven?’.

It’s a marathon 2 hour something ride of beer fuelled banter and ‘profound’ insights!


Images by Dave Fry. Used with permission.


QUOTES

“Hold onto the hope that if you’re not praying and reading your Bible for a couple of years, and all you do in the evening – like me – is watch box sets and drink red wine, Jesus still loves you.”

“Jesus is the pioneer of a deconstructed faith. He radically challenged the temple, radically challenged the inherited interpretations of the Old Testament. I’m just part of that movement. So, I’m more into Jesus now – I take Jesus much more seriously now – than I ever used to.”

As if building a church of 10,000+, producing an international bestselling DVD series, writing critically acclaimed bestselling books, producing a hugely popular podcast, and having his own TV show wasn’t enough, Rob Bell has decided to write a novel. And much to the frustration of all us lesser talented mortals, it’s really rather good! But what does Millones Cajones reveal about Rob’s own struggle to find himself amidst all this success?


Image by Dixon. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Millones Cajones

QUOTES

“Am I trying to prove to people that I’m orthodox enough? No. Am I trying to prove to a particular tribe of Christians that I’m Christian enough? No. Am I trying to prove that I have a particular theological position about the Bible? Is that my goal? No. You know what I mean? Certain things just aren’t interesting.”

“The tradition is growth. The tradition is not just repeating everything over and over again. The tradition is actually to listen to the movement of Spirit in your life and around you and in the world and then go and grow and expand and learn and explore. The power to me of the Jesus tradition is the invitation to be a student and to become more courageous and more non-violent and more honest and more forgiving and more compassionate and more willing to love your enemy and more aware of the divine presence in every interaction – especially among ‘the least of these.’ That’s a path that I’ve just found endlessly compelling.”

Ever felt awkward and uncomfortable in Church, like you just don’t fit in? Well, according to Jonny Baker that feeling could be the gift of pioneering.

Jonny was pioneering before pioneering was a thing. Most notably he founded the alternative worship community Grace, and more recently he’s pioneered a training course for pioneers. So if you’re dreaming that things could be different, then check out the interview, Jonny might just be the person you’ve been hoping to stumble across.


Image provided by Jonny Baker. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Pioneering Spirituality

QUOTES

“A lot of people like to think that you can jump from the old to the new in one move. But it seems to invariably go through chaos or darkness or wilderness or liminality (to use a pretentious term) – you know, whatever that space is – it seems very unusual to just be able to get the new thing going without any pain.”

“In terms of faith, even if we scrapped everything, within ten years or so we’d be organizing in a different way and calling something an institution. But I think what is important within all institution is how you remain open to newness.”

At the core of author and teacher Brad Jersak’s faith is the belief that God looks like Jesus. Simple enough, right? But what about the violent ‘God of the Old Testament’? What about the parable’s of Jesus that liken God to an angry king? And what about all the suffering in the world that God seems to simply stand by and watch. How do these look like Jesus? We caught up with Brad and asked him to explain.


Image provided by Brad Jersak. Used with permission.


BOOKS

A More Christlike God: A More Beautiful Gospel

Her Gates Will Never Be Shut: Hell, Hope, and the New Jerusalem

QUOTES

“You see competing images of God right within the Bible. And that’s not because the Bible is muddled. It’s that it’s a conversation, it’s polyphonic. There’s voices in conversation trying to work out who is God, what is He like and different perspectives are being revealed both in the characters and even the narrators. And it raises this tension about what this God is like to the point where you have to have God come in person and finally clear it up. Here’s what God is like: He’s love and if you want to know what love looks like, you look at Jesus.”

“Jesus died in our place, He took a bullet for us. But God’s not holding the smoking gun. We are. And so who killed Jesus? Well, we did…The point of the cross is to give us this revelation that in the face of human violence, God does not respond in vengeance. He reveals Himself as self-giving, radically forgiving, co-suffering love.”

Dave Andrews has lived and worked in intentional communities with marginalised groups of people in Australia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India and Nepal. Through these experiences he developed a passion for seeing Christians and Muslims learning together what it means to follow Jesus. To this end, he proposes that we all observe the Jihad of Jesus. We caught up with Dave at the Greenbelt Festival to uncover what exactly this means!


Image provided by Dave Andrews. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Jihad of Jesus: The Sacred Nonviolent Struggle for Justice

QUOTES

“Once we understand that the heart of ‘jihad’ is a non-violent struggle for justice, then of course Jesus becomes the ultimate role model of a sacrificial, compassionate, subversive but non-violent agent of change.”

“I believe if we follow the example of Jesus, we won’t play these religious competition games at all. It’s not about Christianity versus Islam. It’s not about Christians versus Muslims. It’s about us following Jesus and seeking to follow the way of Jesus that seeks to bring life in any tradition, culture or religion. So, I believe that Jesus can be incarnated in any tradition, culture or religion, and in that He will confirm all that is life-affirming and confront all that is life-negating.”

The recent image of a drowned child washed up on a Turkish beach brought the refugee crisis into sharp focus. So to help us better understand the complexities of the situation and how best to respond, we’ve asked Dave Smith to send us a reflection. Dave is the founder of the Boaz Trust, a charity that houses, supports and speaks up for the most vulnerable and destitute asylum seekers and refugees in Manchester.


Image provided by Dave Smith. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Book of Boaz: Jesus and His Family Sought Asylum – What Welcome Would They Have Found in Modern Britain?

Refugee Stories: Seven Personal Journeys Behind the Headlines

QUOTES

“As the barriers are going up and European countries are arguing about quotas and about fairness and about how to stop the tide, we need to take a sober look at the facts and ask ourselves as British citizens – but most of all the citizens of the Kingdom that’s not of this world – what we should be doing if anything.”

“The question is: ‘If you were fleeing Syria or Eritrea, how would you like to be treated?’ That’s the challenge for us as Christians. Because of all the commandments dealing with our fellow man, surely this is the greatest: ‘Do to others what you would like them to do to you.’”

Every now and then we treat you to Nomad Spirituality, a guest meditation based around the Church calendar. So we thought a reflection based around Harvest might be in order. Bruce Stanley seemed like the man as he’s a forager, owns a small holding, pioneered the Forest Church movement. But rather than giving thanks, what harvest prompts Bruce to do is ask some challenging questions.


Image provided by Mystic Christ website. Used with permission.

If you need more Bruce, then check out his website, and his book Forest Church: A Field Guide to Nature Connection.

The idea of beauty has shaped Joanna Jepson‘s life and ministry. Born with a jaw defect she was mercilessly bullied through her childhood and into adulthood. But after successful surgery she then had to figure out how her internal self related to her new external self. She then went on to issue a legal challenge against the late abortion of a foetus with a cleft lip and palate. And later she became a chaplain to the London College of Fashion. So we asked Joanna to tell us what she’s learnt about the true meaning of beauty.


Image by Alex Baker. Used with permission.


BOOKS

A Lot Like Eve: Fashion, Faith and Fig-Leaves

QUOTES

“You’ve got the designers who don’t want to make you feel crap. Their job isn’t that at all. It’s to make a woman feel the very best she can be and to enable her to express that in a very good and powerful way. The problem is that then that goes into the hands of people marketing the clothes and that’s when it gets really twisted and distorted. Because that’s when it becomes about not making you feel great, but making you feel like you’re never enough.”

“So much of my experience of the world has been about being pulled out of myself. You know, ‘You’re never going to be enough, you need to work harder to be acceptable, you need to fashion lots of fronts and masks and disguises to be acceptable, and you need to buy lots of things to be acceptable.’ And all of those things pull us out of ourselves. So for me it’s been about coming back to myself and knowing that I am enough. I am a holy space in the world. And that’s everything I need to be. And I don’t need to embellish it or try and bolster it up. It’s great. This is it. Nobody can rob me of that.”

10 years ago Marina Cantacuzino began to interview people who had suffered all sorts of trauma, abuse and wrongdoing, but who instead of choosing vengeance chose forgiveness. It’s easy as Christians to think that we’ve cornered the market on forgiveness, but listening to these stories from people from a range of faith traditions and none is deeply challenging and inspiring. So we asked Marina to share the wisdom she’s gained from working on The Forgiveness Project.


Image by The Forgiveness Project. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Forgiveness Project: Stories for a Vengeful Age

WEBSITE

The Forgiveness Project

QUOTES

“I think the crucial element to forgiveness is empathy and compassion. It requires you to connect in some way with the other, the enemy, the person that’s hurt you.”

“Some people will say you earn forgiveness, you deserve it, you show repentance and apology and remorse. But for many people…forgiveness is an act of self-healing.”

Robert Song is a professor in the department of Theology and Religion at Durham Uni. He recently wrote ‘Covenant and Calling’, in which he challenges traditional ideas of marriage, having children and celibacy and proposes a whole new category of relationship, called ‘covenant partnerships’. And he reaches these conclusions not by looking to Genesis, or pulling out proof texts, but by looking to what life will be like when God’s Kingdom fully comes. So brace yourself for some serious thinking!


Image provided by Robert Song. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Covenant and Calling: Towards a Theology of Same-Sex Relationships

QUOTES

“My own view is that at the end of the day, the real reason – both biblically and actually broader cultural and even in terms of evolution – the real reason why we have two genders and therefore complementarities ultimately because that is the way human being are. That is, we procreate through two genders. That’s the actual root of it all. Now, once you take procreation out of the picture – as I think one does AD – then we have a very different view of what relationships might be about.”

“Let’s not talk about, ‘It’s either the plain truth of Scripture or disobedience.’ Actually, Scripture itself operates at a number of different levels and we may need to just look at the richer, deeper, thicker theological story that comes out of it.”

Nomad started out with a group of people wanting to explore new forms of church, so after six years we thought it was about time to explore this idea again.

Kelly Bean grew up in traditional church and never questioned its practices or structure. But over time she began to realise that the house group she led felt a lot more like church than what happened on a Sunday. So when her Church closed down, her house group became her church. So we asked Kelly what she’s learnt along the way.


Image provided by Kelly Bean. Used with permission.


BOOKS

How to Be a Christian without Going to Church: The Unofficial Guide To Alternative Forms Of Christian Community

QUOTES

“So often it’s a small percentage of people who lead a traditional church congregation and then the others are more passive observers. And that also serves a point to maybe carry the institution forward, but maybe not necessarily draw people into deeper maturity and into authentic practice of mission and spiritual formation.”

“If you’re in a place where you’ve been wounded and you’re living out of pain or discontentment or you’re deconstructing a lot, don’t be too fast to start something. Find a process and a way and time to be able to heal so that when there’s a new beginning, you’re doing that out of a sense of being called into something beautiful as opposed to reacting to something that was difficult.”

Jewish blogger, Robert Cohen is back on the show, sharing with us lessons from his faith journey. So if you’re interested in knowing more about the connection between faith, ancestry and land, the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, interfaith marriage, what a Jew makes of church, and what a true prophet looks like, then this is the episode for you!


Image provided by Robert Song. Used with permission.


WEBSITE

Writing From the Edge

QUOTES

“I think we’re all asking the same questions really. We might have a different language and a different liturgy to try and answer them. But fundamentally, we’re all trying to work out why are we here and what is being asked of us and how we’re meant to behave.”

“If God is all-powerful and is as great as our liturgy wants us to say that He is, then why am I limiting His room for manoeuvre? Who am I to say that it isn’t a good idea for Him to somehow place Himself on Earth in the form of a human being and use that as a way to help explain how He wants people to be and we are to live?”

Eve Tushnet is a freelance writer and blogger. And she’s gay, Catholic and celibate. So we asked Eve to tell us the story of how she went from atheist lesbian, to Catholic and celibate. And what she learnt about love, friendship and what it means to commit to the Church.


Image provided by Eve Tushnet. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Gay and Catholic: Accepting My Sexuality, Finding Community, Living My Faith

QUOTES

“To the extent that the discussion of sexuality and same-sex relationships draws out what are the kinds of love that are open to you if you are gay, that I think is a really crucially important and fascinating question. If it’s about scriptural interpretation, I flat out admit that I don’t understand the Bible, so I’m less equipped to handle that discussion.”

“The nice thing about labels is that they help connect you to other people who have the same label. They sort of form a community and help you define community.”

With yet another terrorist atrocity in the news – this time leading to the deaths of at least 38 people in Tunisia – people are again asking, ‘Is Islam inherently violent?’

We ask Carl Medearis, an international expert is Muslim-Christian relations who has lived, worked, and traveled in the Middle East for the last 30 years, to help us unpack this question.


Image provided by Carl Medearis. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Muslims, Christians, and Jesus: Understanding the World of Islam and Overcoming the Fears That Divide Us

QUOTES

“If you say, ‘Is Christianity violent?’ we might say, ‘Well, no. Of course not. Jesus taught love and peace.’ But that’s not the question. We didn’t ask what Jesus taught, we asked: what does Christianity do? Christianity has done lots of horrible things in its name.”

“The Quran – like the Bible – has been used to encourage and support violence. Which book has more violence: the Bible or the Quran? The Bible wins hands-down. Unfortunately, the Bible’s much more violent than the Quran. We would say, ‘But we know how to interpret those verses in Joshua and Judges and throughout the Old Testament.’ Well, yes. And most Muslims know how to interpret the violent verses in the Quran. Just because [Allah] told Muhammad in a specific battle at a specific time to kill somebody doesn’t mean that you can take that for all times to kill anybody you want to.”

Tom Wright is unquestionably one of the most influential NT scholars of our generation. It’s hard to overestimate the influence he has had on the Church’s understanding of Jesus and Paul.

But what makes this great man tick? We asked you what you’d like to know about the man behind the theology. As a result, we ended up asking him everything from what his favourite childhood book was, to how he manages his work/life balance, through to which three people he’d most like to invite to dinner!


Image provided by University of St Andrews. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Simply Jesus: Who he Was, What he Did, Why it Matters

Simply Christian

Simply Good News: Why The Gospel Is News And What Makes It Good

QUOTES

“There is a myth of objectivity. Nobody knows anything objectively. There is no such thing as a point of view which is nobody’s point of view. If we try to get a ‘God’s-eye-view’ of anything or anyone, that is a basically promethean – i.e. an atheistic – thing: ‘God can get out of the way. I am going to know this objectively.’ Only God does that. The rest of us have to engage. That’s why the primary mode of knowing is love. And love is both deeply subjective and – if it’s love – deeply objective in the sense that the thing or person or whatever it is that I love, I am valuing as they are, but I’m valuing from my point of view.”

“As human beings, we function best in the big narrative – and the Bible gives us that. The problem in so many churches is that people only get the Bible this little verse here, that little passage there. There are many churches which assume that they are ‘biblical’ because they stand in a broad evangelical tradition, but they’re not either teaching the Bible themselves or teaching people how to learn the Bible. And that’s really, really worrying. It’s as though we’re running on empty. Or to change the metaphor, it’s like those cartoons where somebody walks out off the edge of a cliff and until they look down, they don’t realize. Then: whoops!”

It’s quite popular these days to refer to yourself as an activist. But Alastair McIntosh is the real thing. Not only is he a respected academic and writer, but he’s taken on major corporations, and won! Why? Because he believes that much of the modern world is threatening our sense of place, which is so vital for human flourishing.


Image provided by Alastair McIntosh. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Soil and Soul: People versus Corporate Power

QUOTES

“On the one hand, the sense of place and belonging to place is hugely important. On the other hand, we need to embed that in a deeper spiritual sense of belonging where the whole cosmos becomes our home and every place where we tread a step becomes a place we should try to treat as home. So, we make a home out of being exiles where necessary.”

“I think that if we’re going to claim that we’re people of faith, whatever our faith might be – and that that faith is predicated on love – we need to understand that this will be profoundly challenging to our hip-pockets.”

In this episode we talk to Rachel Held Evans about her journey from a conservative evangelical faith, through a period of wrestling with questions, doubt, cynicism and despair, to the emergence of a new kind of faith. And we discuss the trials and tribulations of embarking on this journey under the gaze of social media.


Image provided by HarperCollins. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Searching for Sunday: Loving, Leaving, and Finding the Church

Faith Unraveled: How a Girl Who Knew All the Answers Learned to Ask Questions

A Year of Biblical Womanhood: How a Liberated Woman Found Herself Sitting on Her Roof, Covering Her Head, and Calling Her Husband ‘Master’

QUOTES

“I don’t think it’s anything new to have the questions of the age shake and challenge what we believe as Christians…but I do think the opportunity to talk about it rather endlessly is something that comes along with socioeconomic privilege.”

“What I kept bumping up against was that you’re allowed to ask questions, but only up to a certain point. And there were a lot of predetermined answers. Like, ‘We want you to wrestle, we want you to struggle a little bit…but only if you come back around to believing this, this, this and this.’ So, it felt like the inquiry was very limited and restricted, which didn’t feel like actual inquiry to me. Like, if we’ve already got the answer to this, why are we even talking about it?”

[Science] Mike McHargue describes himself as a Christian turned atheist turned follower of Jesus. That’s right, Mike was a fully-fledged conservative evangelical Christian, but then he read the whole Bible and his faith crumbled away. He then found himself in the rather awkward position of being in Church leadership while no longer believing in God! Then Mike rediscovered faith, but in a very different way. Now he teaches on science, faith, atheism, doubt and knowing God. It’s a great story!


Image provided by Penguin Random House. Used with permission.

BOOKS

Finding God in the Waves: How I Lost My Faith and Found it Again Through Science

WEBSITES

The Liturgists

Ask Science Mike

QUOTES

“I don’t want to hold out that I’ve figured out some perfect system that helps everyone feel close to God again – I want to be really clear about that. I also want to say I know many people who are happy, healthy, well-adjusted atheists or secular humanists and I don’t have any desire to take that away from them. My heart is for the people who – like me – hunger to know God, who desire to know God, who miss feeling God is real. And for those people, I don’t offer Scripture. I offer science.”

“When someone opens up and is honest about the fear they have, give them a hug. Tell them you love them. Don’t turn your back on them. This is a moment of incredible vulnerability. The best thing you can do is tell them how much you love them and maybe tell them a story of when you doubted as well. Do look at this as a moment to close a sale for Jesus, but view this instead as a moment to be like the Good Samaritan – pouring oil and wine on the wounds of another.”

What on earth are we meant to do with those passages in the Bible where God commands genocide, the stoning to death of rebellious children or poems about dashing the heads of babies on rocks?! Well, according to theologian, author and artist, Derek Flood, the answer is pretty straight forward, we just read the Bible like Jesus did.


Image provided by Derek Flood. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Healing the Gospel: A Radical Vision for Grace, Justice, and the Cross

Disarming Scripture: Cherry-Picking Liberals, Violence-Loving Conservatives, and Why We All Need to Learn to Read the Bible Like Jesus Did

QUOTES

“The dilemma is that we’re trying to take a book and expect it to be something that it actually isn’t. And what you find in the Old Testament is actually a multitude of conflicting views of who God is, how we are supposed to be in faithfulness to God. That’s a reflection of the fact that Judaism developed over thousands of years – one example being monotheism that went from being a pantheistic religion that was similar to the other religions around them in the ancient world to developing monotheism and their view of God or gods completely changed. And the same is true for a lot of others things.”

“Jesus represents the way of ‘faithful questioning’ and the Pharisees represent the way of ‘unquestioning obedience.’ And those are clearly opposites. And the way of ‘faithful questioning’ we see in Jesus’ stuff where he says things like, ‘Hey, well what do you mean we can’t heal on the Sabbath? Isn’t that actually what we’re supposed to do on the Sabbath?’ So, he’s faithfully questioning. In other words, he’s questioning a law in the name of compassion and saying, ‘Look, this is the way this law is supposed to be done.’”

Another General Election is upon us. Levels of apathy and disillusionment are at an all time high, and popular figures like Russell Brand are urging us to have no part in what he sees as a corrupt system. So the question we’re wrestling with is: Why Bother Voting?

To help answer this we’ve turned to Paul Bickley for help. Paul has experience working in parliament and public affairs and is currently Director of Political Program at Theos Think Tank, a Christian think tank working in the area of politics, religion and society.

Come on Paul, inspire us…


Image provided by Theos. Used with permission.


QUOTES

“A better question than, ‘Should Christians vote?’ would be, ‘What would an authentic Christian politic look like?’ In the same way that politics is more than voting, it must be more than a theoretical endeavour. It’s about real people. It’s about real challenges.”

“To do politics, you have to start with the people in front of you. Literally, you should start with the people on your street, in your place of work, in your congregation. So often we interpret Jesus’ command to ‘love our neighbour’ as a mandate for a kind of generic humanitarianism. But what about your actual neighbour? Do you know their name? Do you know where they come from? Do you know what they’re struggling with? Have you ever talked with them about what you would want to change in your neighbourhood?”

The Rapture is a curious doctrine, as it’s not in the Bible, anywhere! But let’s pretend it’s real, and you missed it! How would you survive the collapse of civilisation? Lewis Dartnell‘s day job is to search for life on Mars, but for fun he wrote The Knowledge: How to Rebuild our World from Scratch. It may sound a tad abstract, but it sheds light on our relationship with the planet and with each other, and for us Christians, why Rapture theology is potentially so destructive.


Image provided by Shortlist/Paul Stuart. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Knowledge: How to Rebuild our World from Scratch

QUOTES

“Right now, all of our eggs are in one basket – we cannot afford to mess up the Earth. Because we can’t migrate seven billion people to another planet. We do not have that option. We need to look after our world and keep things working.”

“If society collapses, you’re going to be better off with friends and people you trust and a community around you – just as we are today. Humanity’s a social species and I don’t see why that would need to change if civilization were to collapse.”

Jesus told us to love our enemies. But surely not the monstrous soldiers of Isis? With an almost constant stream of stories of burnings, beheadings, and mass slaughter, what could love possible look like in this context, and what good would it do?!

Rick Love is President of Peace Catalyst International, and Associate Director of the World Evangelical Alliance Peace and Reconciliation Initiative. He seemed like a pretty good person to ask what a Christian response to Isis would look like.


Image provided by Rick Love/Wikimedia. Used with permission.


QUOTES

“Imagine what could happen if even a small percentage of the 2.2 billion Christians in the world did the heart work and the hard work of waging peace. A pre-emptive love initiative by those who take Jesus’ command seriously could help undermine and thwart violent extremism.”

“Imagine what could happen if even a small percentage of the 2.2 billion Christians in the world did the heart work and the hard work of waging peace. A pre-emptive love initiative by those who take Jesus’ command seriously could help undermine and thwart violent extremism.”

Mike Stygal is a shaman (i.e. he whips himself up into an altered state of consciousness in order to hang out in the spirit world). He also happens to be the president of the Pagan Federation. Oh, and he’s married to a Christian. So he seems like the right guy to talk to about what Christians can learn from pagans (and indeed, what pagans can learn from Christians).


Image by Caz Galloway. Used with permission.


QUOTES

“Experiencing the realm of ‘spirit’ is something that would connect us. How we understand that connection of spirit – or what that spirit might be – might be different. I’ve talked to a lot of Christians or a lot of people from other faiths about their experience of the divine (if you want). And each person I’ve spoken to has expressed their personal experiences in a slightly different ways.”

“I think Christianity in terms of ‘the church’ hasn’t necessarily been Jesus’ best friend.”

Apparently, Britain is set to become the first country to have three parent babies! It’s all to do with genetically modifying an embryo to prevent certain inherited diseases. But as with many scientific advances folks like us are left worrying about the scientific and ethical implications.

Professor Denis Alexander is the Emeritus Director of the Faraday Institute for Science and Religion, a molecular biologist, and an author on science and religion. So he seemed like the perfect person to explain all (which he does, in a brilliantly professory type of way…).


Image provided by Deryck Chan/Wikimedia. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Beyond Belief: Science, Faith and Ethical Challenges

Creation or Evolution: Do we have to Choose?

QUOTES

“If we really love our neighbour – if we really love these parents who’ve already had a child with a devastating mitochondrial disease – then I think love certainly shows us that we should do all that we can in our power to help those parents to have a child who’s genetically almost entirely their own genes – not 100 percent, but 99.8 percent genetically their own – and who can be guaranteed not to have a mitochondrial disease.”

“I suppose I see the soul more in its sense of the way the word is used in Hebrew thought, where mind, body and soul are presented to us often in the Old Testament as the unity of personhood with three different aspects. So, the soul as we read through the Hebrew text almost seems like the real me, the real ‘I,’ that real person. It’s referring to all that person is – especially, of course, as they have capacity for relationship with God. And it seems to me that capacity is something that develops – it’s not something which is sort of ‘plugged in’ to the early fertilized egg, almost like a memory stick plugged into a laptop or something like that. No, this is something which develops.”

For the final show in our ‘Interfaith Easter’ series we’ve asked James Ford to reflect on Easter from a Buddhist perspective. Not only is James a Zen Buddhist Priest, but he’s also a minister in the Unitarian Church. A rather interesting mix, I think you’ll agree.

So sit back, turn up the volume and glean from James’s wisdom and insight.


Image provided by James Ford. Used with permission.

Our latest Easter reflection comes from Jason Mankey and Mike Stygal. Jason was a Christian, but became increasingly disillusioned with right wing politics and intolerant attitudes, and so began to explore paganism. But despite this, he maintained his love of Easter. You’ll remember Mike from our recent interview. He’s the President of the Pagan Federation. Enjoy!


Images provided by Jason Mankey and Caz Galloway. Used with permission.

For our sixth Easter reflection we’ve asked Paul Beaumont to mull over what Easter means for someone who has lost their faith.

Paul was a committed evangelical Christian for 25 years, but when he began to be honest about his lack of spiritual experiences and his concerns about aspects of the character of God as revealed in the Old Testament, his faith began to unravel…


Image provided by Paul Beaumont. Used with permission.

Our latest Interfaith Easter reflection comes from Jay Lakhani. Jay is head of the Hindu Academy in London and Education Director for the UK Hindu Council. Oh, and he’s a theoretical physicist! So sit back and enjoy a reflection on the death and resurrection of Jesus from a Hindu perspective.


Image provided by Hindu Academy. Used with permission.

Our interfaith Easter series continues with Robert Cohen. Robert is a Jew, but one who is married to an Anglican Minister. This combined with the fact he lives in one of the least Jewish counties of England puts him very much on the margins. Needless to say, Robert has had a very interesting and unique experience of both Judaism and Christianity.


Image provided by Robert Cohen. Used with permission.

For more about Robert, check out his blog Writing From the Edge.

We took a bit of a chance with this one. We asked a secular scientist if they could find a link between their scientific discipline and the themes of Easter. Prof. Michael Merrifield had a crack at it, and found some sweet connections between his field of astronomy and death and resurrection (and also talked a lot about his real passion, telescopes!).


Image provided by Michael Merrifield. Used with permission.

If you like what you hear, head over to his YouTube channel for more.

Second up in our Interfaith Easter series is Omid Safi. Omid is the Director of the Islamic Studies Centre, at Duke University.


Image provided by Omid Safi. Used with permission.

So if you’re interested in what a Muslim makes of Easter and the death and resurrection of Jesus, you’ve come to the right place, as Omid gives us a fascinating reflection.

This year we’re bringing you an Easter reflection, with a twist. Rather than asking Christians to reflect on their own festival, we thought it’d be more interesting to ask people from other faiths and none to reflect on the symbolism of Easter. A great way to learn about other religions, we thought.


Image provided by Mark Vernon. Used with permission.

We’re easing you in gently with Mark Vernon. Mark used to be an Anglican priest, but he now considers himself an agnostic. So buckle up for an Agnostic Easter…

Dave Tomlinson is effortlessly interesting and seems to effortlessly attract interesting people. He mentors the leaders of the now global atheist church, he took the funerals of two of the countries most notorious criminals, and his church is so cool even Bono turns up from time to time.

But what we find even more interesting is the fact that Dave went from the emerging church back to the institutional church. Why Dave, why?!


Image provided by Dave Tomlinson. Used with permission.


BOOKS

How to be a Bad Christian: … And a Better Human Being

The Bad Christian’s Manifesto: Reinventing God (and other modest proposals)

QUOTES

“Although people have accused me of tossing the Bible aside, I’ve never been able to do that. I’ve always wrestled with the Bible. People have stood up many times in public gatherings – at Greenbelt and elsewhere – and told me that I’ve abandoned the Bible. And my response is, ‘I bet if we sat down and looked at it, that I read the Bible more than you do.’ It’s part of my daily life. It’s part of my daily prayers. And I can’t just say I don’t care about the Bible.”

“Most people don’t come to church. And actually I don’t think God cares whether you come to church. I think God must be more interested in who you are as a person and the decisions you make in your life and the way you treat people than what you do on a Sunday morning.”

Wendy is passionate about creating ‘generous spaces’ in churches, where people with different understanding of sexuality can meet together without judgment, listen to each others stories and to seek Jesus together. Sounds great! But is it realistic? Have a listen and find out!


Image provided by Wendy VanderWal Gritter. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Generous Spaciousness: Responding To Gay Christians In The Church

QUOTES

“I think we are in a time of necessarily needing to reimagine what being the people of God in community will look like and same-sex relationships is just one of the catalysts that is forcing the church in large part because our young people are saying, ‘This is ridiculous. I mean, I love my gay friends. They’re fabulous. What’s the problem?’ And [their] walking out the door is forcing the church to look at all those other things – particularly our relationship with Scripture.”

“If Jesus is for us, if Jesus is promising us an abundance of life, if Jesus loves our humanity, then why do we feel less human in this pursuit of supposed wholeness? And so I think a lot of people began to say, ‘God can do anything, but the pattern doesn’t seem to be that He changes people’s sexual orientation.’

2015 sees the resurrection of Nomad Spirituality! Nomad can be a bit cerebral, so we occasionally want to balance this with something a bit more experiential.

Writer, poet and priest, Ian Adams, has stepped up and given us a meditation on stillness. So find a quiet spot, turn down the lights, and lose yourself in stillness…


Image provided by Canterbury Press. Used with permission.

Oh, and we recommend Ian’s daily meditation, Morning Bell.

(The meditation begins at 6 mins 7 secs)

Just in case you’re suffering withdrawal symptoms from our 12 Days of Christmas series, and are slumped listlessly in front of your now empty mp3 player, we’ve got one final Christmas treat for you.

We asked standup comedian and BBC comedy scriptwriter, Paul Kerensa, to record a wee Christmas Day message for you…


Image provided by Paul Kerensa. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Hark!: The Biography Of Christmas

WEBSITE

Paul Kerensa

QUOTES

“While the West repaints Christmas, the truth is of course it’s based on almost the polar opposite of Western cosiness.”

“Let’s work together to shine a light into the dark corners of the world and bring hope to those who need it, justice where it’s lacking, and a vision for a changed world where love is the universal currency.”

And you thought we’d finished (so did we, actually!). This one, however, really is the grande finale, and it’s a corker.

Krista Tippett has an award winning radio show, On Being, and was awarded the National Humanities Medal by President Obama for “thoughtfully delving into the mysteries of human existence.” And today she’s on Nomad telling you why she doesn’t do Christmas…


Image by Chris Daniels. Used with permission.

Oh, and if you want more from Krista, check out our interview with her where we discussed the lost art of listening.

To close out our 12 Days of Christmas we’ve enlisted the services of the author of Consumer Detox (read it, its really rather good, unless you don’t like being massively challenged, then don’t read it!) and founder of the Breathe Network (“Less Stuff, More Life”), Mark Powley.

Apparently the issue isn’t so much the way we go about Christmas, but the way we go about the rest of the year. Interesting!


Image provided by St Hild College. Used with permission.

If you’re interested in more from Mark, we interviewed him, way back in the day…

Philosopher, sociologist and Christian feminist, Elaine Storkey has achieved a lot in her life. She’s lectured around the world, written numerous books, she succeeded John Stott as Executive Director of the London Institute of Contemporary Christianity, and she served as the President of TEAR Fund. And now, she’s on Nomad Podcast, bringing you her Christmas reflection!


Image provided by SPCK. Used with permission.

Shane Claiborne – author of the must read book The Irresistible Revolution, and founding member of the New Monastic community The Simple Way – would like to share some thoughts on Christmas. Anyone interested?!


Image by Ms. Tsar Fedorsky. Used with permission.

If you want more, dig deep into our archives and discover our interview with Shane…

Greg Boyd is one of Nomad’s favourite theologians and authors. He’s a leading figure in the reformation of evangelicalism, passionately advocating everything from the importance of doubt, care for creation, a non-violent view of God, and much more. Read his blog at ReKnew and listen to his sermons at Woodland Hills Church. Oh, and read all his many books!

And today Greg is bringing a Christmas reflection from his unique perspective, just for you, the beloved Nomad listener. Enjoy!


Image provided by ReKnew. Used with permission.

Crying out for more? Look no further than our two previous interviews with Greg, on the importance of community and vegetarianism and non-violence.

The late Author and lecturer, Phyllis Tickle, was one of the most influential voices in emerging church circles, and one of our favourite guests of 2014.

We asked Phyllis to reflect on Christmas from the perspective of the emerging church and emergence Christianity.

Need more Phyllis? Easy, just check out our interview with her, where we discuss why a new church is emerging. It’s a classic.


Image provided by Baker Publishing. Used with permission.

Jenny Baker was one of the founders of the Sophia Network, an organisation that champions the equality of women and men in church. She’s also author of the book Equals: Enjoying Gender Equality in All Areas of Life.


Image provided by Jonny Baker. Used with permission.

So we asked Jenny to reflect on the Christmas story from the perspective of gender equality.

Today’s Christmas reflection comes from Nomad’s favourite musician and activist, David Benjamin Blower.

David sets up a showdown between Christmas and Empire and throws in a couple of your favourite Christmas carols for no extra charge. So brace yourself for a good measure of hope-filled challenge, served up with a sprinkling of musical creativity. Enjoy!


Image used with permission.

Wendy VanderWal-Gritter is the executive director of New Direction Ministries in Canada, an organisation that exists to provide “safe and spacious places for those outside the heterosexual mainstream to explore and grow in faith in Jesus Christ.”

We asked Wendy to reflect on Christmas from the perspective of her experience in ministering to gay and lesbian Christians.


Image provided by Wendy VanderWal-Gritter. Used with permission.

Robin Parry is an evangelical, but unlike most evangelicals he doesn’t believe that Hell and death is the end of the story for most of humanity. Instead, he believes the Bible teaches that we will all ultimately be reconciled to God and enjoy eternity with him.

So we set Robin a challenge. Can he find universalism in the Christmas story? Tune in to find out the results!


Image provided by Robin Parry. Used with permission.

Dave Andrews has committed his life to serving the poorest and most marginalised people in Australia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India and Nepal for more than forty years. His wisdom and humility made him one of our most popular interviewees of 2014.

In his Christmas reflection, Dave draws out some fascinating and surprising insights from the example of the Wise Men.


Image provided by Dave Andrews. Used with permission.

Carl Medearis – one of our favourite interviewees of 2013 – kicks off Nomad’s 12 Days of Christmas. Carl was a missionary in Beirut, Lebanon for 12 years and now works as an international expert in the field of Christian-Muslim relations.

So, sit back and marvel as Carl seamlessly weaves shepherds, ISIS, Bono, Jesus and the ‘fear’ of God into his Christmas reflection. Enjoy!


Image provided by Carl Medearis. Used with permission.

Nomad made a commitment a while back to have a lot more women on the show. So we thought it was about time we looked at the theology behind that decision. Jenni Williams lectures in Old Testament Studies in Oxford, is an Associate Minister in the Anglican Church, and wrote God Remembered Rachel: Women’s Stories in the Old Testament and Why They Matter. So Jenni seemed like a pretty good person to ask, Why Not Women?


Image provided by Jenni Williams. Used with permission.


BOOKS

God Remembered Rachel: Women’s Stories in the Old Testament and Why They Matter

QUOTES

“There are stories where God remains silent – stories about women and men – but I wonder whether the silence in some cases is actually the author saying, ‘Well, make your mind up about this. Make your own judgement.’ Part of the reading of these stories is the times when the author doesn’t give us a neatly packaged moral and doesn’t say, “Right – here’s what you learn from this. This is how you teach your Sunday School class.’ It’s about grown-up reading.”

“Within what [the Bible] does say about what it means to be either a man or a woman, I think it essentially focuses on what it means to be human. And that is to be called to be in relationship with God and to be His image on Earth.”

Alister McGrath is the master of apologetics. With three doctorates under his belt and ranked among the ’20 most brilliant Christian professors’, he’s publically locked horns with the likes of Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins.

But is there still a place in our culture for what many now see as an ‘old school’ overly rational approach to ‘defending’ the faith?


Image provided by Tyndale House Publishers. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Mere Apologetics: How to Help Seekers and Sceptics Find Faith

QUOTES

“People are locked into this old-fashioned rationalist way of evangelism as winning arguments. It’s not. It’s about relating to people, being able to share with them what the richness and depth of the Christian faith is. And the reason we’ve stopped doing these rather dull arguments is that no one gets converted by arguments. What apologetics tries to do is remove the roadblocks to faith. Sometimes [we] use arguments, but very often it’s simply explaining what Christianity is – giving people a new way of seeing things.”

“In the past, we tended to say it’s important to stress Christianity is right. Today it think it’s very important to stress that Christianity works – in other words, that it really can engage with experience and also with the deep questions of life that we wrestle with.”

Richard Rohr is a Catholic priest and a Franciscan Friar. He is well connected and respected across Christian traditions (including the emerging church), so he seemed like the perfect person to speak to about what Protestants can gain from Catholic spirituality.


Image provided by the Centre for Action and Contemplation. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Divine Dance: The Trinity and your Transformation

Immortal Diamond: The Search for Our True Self

Everything Belongs: The Gift of Contemplative Prayer

Falling Upward: A Spirituality for the Two Halves of Life

WEBSITE

Centre for Action and Contemplation

QUOTES

“The Protestant Reformation pretty much reacted against the right brain and they’re only coming to realize that now. You can’t communicate great mystery merely by sermons, which keeps you in the left brain, keeps you argumentative. And that’s why there’s 30 000 Protestant denominations. You can’t hold groups together without symbol and ritual which touch the unconscious. It’s the unconscious where we hold all of our hurts, all of our wounds, all of our deepest beliefs. And until religion touches the unconscious, the soul – if you will – I don’t think you see deep transformation in people.”

“When you lose the great perennial tradition – when you lose the absolutely necessary corrective and guidance of the Scriptures – you end up being a gross individualist, cherry-picking things that will make you feel superior and separate.”

The late Phyllis Tickle had her finger on the pulse of the emerging church like no one else. So if you’re interested in why the emergence of a new kind of church is both inevitable and necessary, and the vital role of the Holy Spirit in this, then tune in.

And stay tuned after the closing credits if you’d like to know why Phyllis loved cows and hated horses!


Image provided by Baker Publishing. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Great Emergence: How Christianity Is Changing and Why

Emergence Christianity: What It Is, Where It Is Going, and Why It Matters

The Age of the Spirit: How the Ghost of an Ancient Controversy Is Shaping the Church

QUOTES

“For some reason, every 500 years Christianized culture goes through a huge upheaval. History is descriptive. We much never take what I’m about to say as prescriptive – it doesn’t mean it’s going to always happen. But it does mean that up until now, every 500 years we’ve gone through a great ‘whoopee,’ or we have a bishop on this side of the pond who calls it a ‘rummage sale.’ It doesn’t matter what you call it. But the whole of society goes ‘whoop’ and tosses everything into the air. We’re in the 21st century and this is what’s being called ‘the Great Emergence.’”

“Every time we’ve gone through one of these things, whatever held hegemony – whatever held pride of place religiously-speaking, Christianly-speaking – does not cease to be. It just has to drop back and reconfigure. Roman Catholicism didn’t end 500 years ago. Clearly it’s bigger now than it ever was. Orthodoxy didn’t end 1000 years ago. Monastic Christianity didn’t end 1500 years ago. It never ceases, it always grows, but it does have to reconfigure. And it’s the reconfiguration that’s painful.”

Sara Miles was an atheist. Then one day, out of idle curiosity, she wandered into a church, had a bite of bread and a sip of wine and God came crashing into her life. Her response was to take the principles of communion and set up a food distribution centre around the altar of her church for anyone and everyone to enjoy. So tune in for some fascinating insights into what it means to eat at God’s table.


Image provided by Sara Miles. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Take this Bread

QUOTES

“That’s what it means to be a Christian, which is that your spiritual life and your physical life are completely mixed up; where people believe in the incarnation. So, the meaning – what you call the symbols, the depth, the connection that you find – the spirituality of food is not separate from its material.”

“I think the way that communion changes everything is precisely because of the universality and the catholicity of it – that it’s impossible to have this meal by yourself. This is the only meal in the world you can’t buy and you can’t eat it alone. So, all the business of religion that’s about exclusion or boundaries or drawing lines is subverted by this meal that’s offered for free to people who don’t deserve it, to people who aren’t prepared for it. And so there’s this constant tension, I think, between the power of the sacrament and the anxiety of the institution.”

Dave Andrews has committed his life to serving the poorest and most marginalised people through small, local Christian communities. He’s clearly a man who knows Jesus intimately, and has gained tremendous experience and wisdom. So why doesn’t he consider himself, or even strive to be, a ‘great man of God’?


Image provided by Dave Andrews. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Can You Hear the Heartbeat?: A Challenge to Care the Way Jesus Cared

Christi-Anarchy: Discovering a Radical Spirituality of Compassion

QUOTES

“I have deliberately chosen to locate myself in my local community and see myself not as a great man of God, but as a little brother of Jesus – trying to do little things with lots of love, which is a lot healthier for the people round about me because my approach is less imperial. And it’s a lot healthier for me, because I think it’s much more spiritual.”

“We have a really strong emphasis on redefining, redescribing, reclaiming and reframing power – not as power over others, but power within and power with others. We really believe that’s the heart of the revolution of Jesus. The trouble is, even alternative Christian groups are often just replicating the same hierarchies that they reject.”

Dr. Bex Lewis is a research fellow in social media at Durham University and author of the popular book Raising Children in the Digital Age. So we thought we’d have a chat with her about what it means to live well in a digital world.


Image by Mark Dodgeon. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Raising Children in the Digital Age

QUOTES

“It is very easy to go into a discussion and not know when to let go. So, if you’re chatting in a pub with someone and they just get really rude, you can maybe go, ‘I’m not going to talk to you anymore.’ Online, people just kind of keep going.”

“If you tell someone on Facebook that you hate them, that clearly is going to affect your face-to-face relationship, so it’s not a virtual little world where nothing else is happening – completely detached. And when you’re writing or speaking, you’re embodied, because you’re using your fingers to write, if you’re doing a Skype call your face is in view. So I think your body still connects to what you’re doing, so I don’t think it’s entirely virtual.”

Robin Parry is an evangelical, but unlike many evangelicals he doesn’t believe that Hell and death is the end of the story for the majority of humanity. Instead he believes the Bible teaches that we will all ultimately be reconciled to God and enjoy eternity with him. Tune in for a fascinating conversation.


Image provided by Robin Parry. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Evangelical Universalist: The Biblical Hope That God’s Love Will Save us All

QUOTES

“For a Christian universalist, you can only conceive of salvation as being through Jesus. There isn’t any salvation outside of that route. What I’m saying is that in the end everybody will find salvation through Jesus.”

“One of the great ironies is I take the tradition very seriously and so my default assumption is if the mainstream view in the church throughout history has been ‘X,’ then that’s what you assume – you assume ‘X’ unless you’ve got a very good reason to think otherwise. It doesn’t mean ‘X’ can’t be wrong, it just means you can’t think that you’re wiser than everybody else because that’s just arrogant.”

Krista Tippett has built a career on listening. Through her award-winning public radio show and podcast, On Being, she listens to people from all religious and spiritual traditions, learning about what it means to be human and how to live life. So she seemed like the perfect person to speak to about the lost art of listening.


Image by Chris Daniels. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Becoming Wise: An Inquiry into the Mystery and the Art of Living

Speaking of Faith: Why Religion Matters–And How to Talk about It

QUOTES

“The thing about listening – about real listening – is that it involves vulnerability. If you are really open to asking an honest question and you really want to hear the answer, you have to create the possibility that you will be surprised and that you might be changed. Not necessarily that you will change your mind, but that your perspective will become nuanced.”

“One of the ways we’ve defined listening in Western culture as we’ve gotten bad at it is that listening is when you stop talking so the other person can say what they have to say until it’s your turn to talk again.”

David Benjamin Blower is a prophet in the Old Testament tradition. Using music and the written word, he creatively and insightfully points the finger at himself and the world around him railing at the injustices he sees. So brace yourself for some hope-filled challenge!


Image provided by David Blower. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Kingdom vs. Empire

Sympathy for Jonah: Reflections on Humiliation, Terror and the Politics of Enemy-Love

QUOTES

“The culture that worship music draws on is mass culture and I find mass culture individualizing, de-peoplizing, alienating, top-down, disempowering – all these things. It has the ilk of a product that’s sold to millions of individuals.”

“I think the image of God is rooted in the love of other and to base the economics of your society on self-interest creates a very uncomfortable place for me to live in as someone who’s trying to follow, you know, the two greatest commandments: love God and love your neighbour as yourself. Capitalism just turns that completely upside-down: love yourself, then your neighbour, and then God (if you believe in Him, maybe).”

Gail Dines is a professor of sociology and women’s studies. She has been studying porn and its effects on society for over 20 years, and has become one of the world’s leading anti-porn activists. Why has she dedicated so much of her life to this one issue? Because she believes the effects of porn is one of society’s main public health issues.

Due to the nature of this subjuect, this episode does contain adult content.


Image provided by Gail Dines. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Pornland: How Porn Has Hijacked our Sexuality

QUOTES

“If boys are being brought up on violence – sexual violence – then the question I ask is what type of fathers, what type of partners, what type of adult men are they going to be when they go into the world and they start acting in the world and having power in the world? And I think this is a very serious question for those of us who are going to be dependent on this next generation for how the world is shaped.”

“If you use porn and you become addicted to porn, what you do is you give up the ability for intimacy and connection – the very things that make us human. It’s really getting to the core of who we are as human beings. Your sexuality is not just one side of you. It speaks volumes about who you are in the world. And the fact that we are bringing up boys on hard-core violent porn is a public health crisis like we’ve never seen before.”

Richard Wilkinson is professor of social epidemiology (that’s the distriThe Spirit Level: Why Equality is Better for Everyone has caused quite a stir, because he believes he’s answered a very long-standing question. Why are we increasingly blighted by so many social problems when we’re materially better off than we’ve ever been? Tune in to find out the answer!


Image by Jonathan Melhuish. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Spirit Level: Why Equality is Better for Everyone

WEBSITE

The Equality Trust

QUOTES

“People have misunderstood the importance of inequality for a long time. They’ve thought of it as mattering only if it creates poverty. People think poverty is the only thing that matters, but actually what inequality does is create feelings of superiority and inferiority – it strengthens the effects of ‘social hierarchy.’”

“People often talk about materialism as if it was a sort of basic human acquisitiveness, but actually it’s a very alienated form of social communication. How I get you to think I’m a successful person – a respectable person – is by the car I drive, where I live, the clothes I wear, and all that kind of thing.”

Nadia Bolz Weber is anything but boring, Raised in a fundamentalist church, she rebelled, immersed herself in a hedonistic lifestyle, found faith again, and now leads House for all Sinners and Saints. Tune in for a fascinating interview, full of insight, wisdom, and gritty honesty.


Image provided by Nadia Bolz Weber. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Cranky, Beautiful Faith: For Irregular (and Regular) People

Accidental Saints: Finding God in all the Wrong People

QUOTES

“I’m why we have bishops. Someone like me should have a bishop. I shouldn’t be doing my own thing out there. I would give it three months before it turned into a ‘Heart of Darkness’ situation. On some level, somebody should be looking over my shoulder saying, ‘Are you still on the Yellow Brick Road, or have you taken these people into a field of poppies?’ Fortunately, I have a bishop that I respect a great deal and who totally has my back.”

“The problem with the church, really, is that it’s filled with people. God’s not the problem. So, I think the minute we fail to remember that everyone we’re dealing with are sinners and so are we, then we’re just set up to have weird expectations and then feel disappointed.”

Bob Ekblad serves immigrants, inmates, homeless people and people struggling with addiction in the US. What’s even more interesting about Bob though is how he seamlessly combines social justice with a miraculous healing ministry!


Image provided by The Seattle School. Used with permission.


BOOKS

A New Christian Manifesto: Pledging Allegiance to the Kingdom of God

WEBSITE

Tierra Nueva

QUOTES

“We attract a lot of middle-class people into our ministry who feel drawn to reach out to people on the margins. A lot of middle-class people come and are able to see the power of the love of God at work and they see how bright the light is that they actually carry. But you’re not going to see that if you’re just keeping it all to yourself or it’s within your own insider community.”

“It’s not about just accommodating people in their addictions and just offering them a blanket tolerance policy. We want to call people towards freedom. And so we try to let them hear from Jesus. We believe that it’s the kindness of God that leads to repentance, so we need communities of inclusion and love but also where the Word of God is communicated, where people can be challenged to step forward and to follow Jesus, to leave behind behaviours, to experience liberation and deliverance sometimes too.”

Author and lecturer in evangelism, theology and Chrisitan spirituality Elaine Heath joins us on the show. We chat with Elaine about contemplative prayer, and the healing and outreach that naturally flows from it. So tune in if you want to know how to experience God and change the world.


Image provided by Elaine Heath. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Mystic Way of Evangelism: A Contemplative Vision for Christian Outreach

QUOTES

“A Christian mystic is someone who is radically transformed by encounters with God so that they become a conduit of significant holy transformation in the church and in the world.”

“We have been so captured by rationalism since the enlightenment – it’s really shaped how we think about our faith. And we’ve bought into the idea that to have faith is to ascribe intellectually to a set of doctrines and hopefully behave yourself along the way.”

Theologian, church leader, and author Greg Boyd is back on the show.

Greg believes a call to non-violence is at the heart of the gospel. He also believes this call impacts how we relate to animals. That’s right, Greg’s a vegetarian. Check out the interview to find out why.


Image provided by ReKnew. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Myth of a Christian Nation: How the Quest for Political Power Is Destroying the Church

QUOTES

“Legalism sees the rules as an end in and of themselves and therefore there are no exceptions, whereas a holistic life principle always has love as the driving thing – what’s the loving thing to do? Usually, the loving thing to do, for me anyways, is to not eat meat. But sometimes, in some circumstances it might be to compromise my own principles and eat it.”

“My core passion is to help Christians wake up to the ways in which the church has been co-opted by the culture and to live a distinct Kingdom life that’s going to contrast with the culture in significant ways. And until the church is the church, dressing up the world and trying to get everyone else to do the right thing is really beside the point.”

Sharon Baker is a theologian and author who is best known for taking issue with the traditional understanding of hell. Instead she holds to a ‘Christian Universalism’ where all people are refined by God’s purifying fire after their death. Tune in and join the debate…


Image provided by Sharon Baker. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Razing Hell: Rethinking Everything You’ve Been Taught About God’s Wrath and Judgment

QUOTES

“I can’t see reconciliation – the chance for reconciliation – ending. When you think about how the length of eternity and then in comparison to that one lifespan, it’s like the snap of our fingers. If our souls are immortal…and I think they are, then why would the chance for eternal reconciliation end in the snap of a finger? Why wouldn’t we get a chance for reconciliation if our souls are still alive after our body dies?”

“Salvation isn’t this autonomous ‘I’m going to Heaven.’ That’s not what it’s about. And that, especially in the West, that’s what we’ve made it about. We made it about our own little salvation ‘get-out-of-Hell-free’ card. And that’s not what salvation is about. It’s about living now for God’s glory, transforming the world through the love of God now – in the Kingdom of God, here on Earth. It’s about loving God enough to live the way God would want us to live in this lifetime and seeing the world redeemed now – not in the afterlife.”

Pete Rollins is a philosopher, writer and founder of the Ikon community. Pete believes that unless we die to certainty and embrace doubt then God becomes just another consumer product. God, in effect, becomes an idol. Sounds interesting!


Image by Burt Dirkse. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Idolatry of God: Breaking the Addiction to Certainty and Satisfaction

Insurrection: To Believe is Human; to Doubt, Divine

QUOTES

“Often the church looks at the Bible or theology and says, ‘What’s the right answer?’ When really, perhaps we should look at it more like a work of art and say, ‘It’s about engaging with a conversation with the work of art, seeing its beauty, being open to being transformed by it, being open to being ruptured by it – like you’re being smashed against rocks.’ And so, in a sense you always return back to the conversation because it will always speak in new and dynamic ways.”

“We feel separated from something that we think will make us whole. And my argument is it’s actually a lie. There’s nothing that we’re separated from that can make us whole. And what Christianity does is it shows us that separation is nothing.”

Paul Kerensa is a stand-up comedian and BBC scriptwriter for shows like Miranda and Not Going Out. So he seemed like just the chap to talk to about the relationship between humour and religion, and to ask ‘What would Jesus laugh at?’


Image provided by Paul Kerensa. Used with permission.


BOOKS

So A Comedian Walks Into Church: Confessions of a Kneel-down Stand-Up

QUOTES

“You’ve got to always think, ‘Who’s the victim of this joke? And if the victim were me, would I mind?’ And so, I try not to do jokes which have an overall victim. Often the victim of the joke is me.”

“People can tell when they’re being preached to. And so, first and foremost it’s got to be funny and the message has got to be secondary to that.”

Michael Hardin is a theologian who’s got a rather colourful background and doesn’t mince his words, which always makes for an interesting interview. So we asked him whether God is really as violent as the Old Testament makes out, and whether he really had to kill his own son in order to forgive us.


Image provided by Michael Hardin. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Jesus Driven Life: Reconnecting Humanity with Jesus

QUOTES

“Every ‘penal substitutionist’ at some point has to engage in a tit-for-tat logic. No matter how they play their theory out, forgiveness is essentially earned. They can claim grace, they can claim that they’re dealing with God’s unconditional love. But essentially, you have to accept what God gave you or you’re doomed.”

“We learn from the cross how important it is to forgive the enemy other, how important it is to live in peaceful relationships. In fact, if you aren’t a forgiving victim, you can only perpetuate the cycle of violent seeking retribution. The forgiving victim is the only victim that stops the cycle of violence and I think that’s what gives such power to the cross.”

We’ve somehow managed to persuade Tom Wright, one of the world’s leading New Testament theologians, to come on the show for a third time! We ask Tom to summarise his 1680 page Paul and the Faithfulness of God, and ponder whether if he met him whether he’d actually like Paul?


Image provided by University of St Andrews. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Paul and the Faithfulness of God

Paul: A Biography

QUOTES

“The vision of this united church which Paul is so emphatic about is so totally unlike anything that we in the Western churches know today. And I think Paul would be horrified at the way we in the West have colluded with apparent disunity.”

“What Paul does is not give a blueprint for what everyone must do on all possible occasions. He teaches them how to think Christianly and then says, ‘Now, go figure it out. Where do you live? What does the gospel look like when you walk outside your front door tomorrow morning? You’ve got to think that through.’ And it seems to me that there there is all the scope in the world for all kinds of fresh expressions.”

We at Nomad recently had a revelation, perhaps we can learn from non-Christians as well as Christians (I know!). So we headed down to London and visited the Sunday Assembly, or The Atheist Church as it’s become known.

After ‘worshipping’ with 300 atheists, we had a chat with Pippa Evans one of the founders of what’s becoming a global movement, and try to figure out what the Church can learn from the friendlier face of new atheism.


Image provided by Matt Crockett. Used with permission.


QUOTES

“I quite like the idea of cutting out the middle-man and just having people doing good things because they’re good people, rather than because there’s a reward at the end or because someone’s told you to do it.”

“What I used to love about church was wherever I am – wherever in the country – I know that there’s a church in a town that will have its doors open and you can go and sit in there and be quiet if you want to. I’d love it if Sunday Assembly could offer that same solace.”

Steve Chalke is one of the UK’s most influential evangelicals and he recently blessed a same-sex civil partnership. Needless to say, this caused a bit of a stir! So we caught up with him and asked him what led him to take this controversial step.


Image provided by Oasis UK. Used with permission.


BOOKS

A Matter of Integrity: The Church, Sexuality, Inclusion and an Open Conversation

QUOTES

“If the Bible’s right that ‘God is love’ and ‘God is truth,’ then truth is love. Therefore, any message that sends people into depression, that sends people to throw themselves under trains, that drives people from churches, that tells them that in the core of their nature they’re no good – they’re less than human, they’re subhuman in some way – that message must be wrong.”

“We have to work out as Christians how we can disagree and remain respectful of one another. If we can’t do that, we’re no better than anyone else. Jesus said, ‘They’ll know you’re my disciples because of your love for one another,’ not because you’re tearing one another apart.”

Mark Wakeling is a man with a conscience and a man that’s got the energy and creativity to follow it. He’s a social entrepreneur who has founded Global SeeSaw, which sells ethical and Fair Trade products made by women in India exploited by human trafficking. So we asked Mark to begin to unpack the issues surrounding the social impact of the clothes we buy.


Image provided by Mark Wakeling. Used with permission.


QUOTES

“My faith has meant that I want to live my life in a way which is making a really positive impact in the world. There’s that sense of being here to be beyond ourselves – blessed to be a blessing. And so, what does that mean for the choices that I make and the things that I do? To be involved in an issue which is championing in justice, which is going against the flow and saying things can be different.”

“Unless we’re uncertain, we don’t listen. And when we stop listening, we do things to people, not with people.”

Scot McKnight is professor of New Testament at Northern Seminary, Illinois, a prolific author and founder of the hugely popular Jesus Creed blog.

Scot recently wrote a book called King Jesus Gospel, so he seemed like the man to help us understand the meaning of the good news.


Image provided by Penguin Random House. Used with permission.


BOOKS

King Jesus Gospel

QUOTES

“The fundamental question of New Testament evangelism is, ‘Who do you think Jesus is?’”

“When wrath is the fundamental problem, penal substitution is the solution, because if it’s wrath then we want that wrath pacified. That’s called ‘propitiation’…and a lot of people think the gospel is fundamentally about pacifying the wrath of God. That’s one image of atonement in the Bible, that the wrath of God has been pacified. I’d say that it is one, so it’s true. It is only one, so it’s not the only one we should use.”

“The question I would ask is this: is there any evidence in the New Testament that the apostles or Jesus evangelized by awakening people to the prospect of Hell when they died? I don’t see it.”

As well as life coaching, creative project management, tea making, and helping run the popular ReJesus website, Bruce Stanley has also helped pioneer the Forest Church movement. So we thought he was the man to ask how to connect with God through nature.


Image provided by Mystic Christ website. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Forest Church: A Field Guide to Nature Connection for Groups and Individuals

QUOTES

“What’s unique, I suppose, about forest church is that we’re actually going to participate with nature. Instead of just doing what you could have been doing inside and moving it outside, we’re actually trying to bring nature into what we’re doing so that nature becomes part of the conversation, part of the inspiration.”

“I am really trying to do something. It isn’t to rewrite Christianity. It’s to get people to connect with nature enough so that they’re changed at a deeper level, because I think the big crisis – the big motivation for me being involved – is to get people more in touch with nature so that we treat it better. That seems to me to be the big crisis of our time.”

Stuart Murray is chair of the Anabaptist Network in the UK. So we thought he’d be the person to ask what’s so special about the Anabaptists tradition, and what it has to say to us about how to live in our post-Christendom  world.


Image provided by Stuart Murray. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Naked Anabaptist

QUOTES

“The table is a place of community building, of friendship, of openness and of equality. Things happen around the table. They don’t happen when you’re sitting in rows of pews. And so food and the sharing of hospitality has been a particularly important aspect of community building within the Anabaptist tradition.”

“I don’t think making church ‘easy’ is necessarily the way forward. I do think there is something about building communities that are very open at the edges – so people are free to come in and see what goes on and journey with the community before they’ve worked out what they believe about Christian faith – but communities that are also strong at the core, that are deep in their commitment to each other, that are clear in their convictions, and that are countercultural. I think there is something about presenting an alternative vision to a society that is losing its moorings in lots of ways.”

Brian McLaren is an internationally recognised and sort after author, speaker and activist. In this episode we’re chatting with Brian about his latest challenging and provocative book that explores the vital topic of Christianity’s relationship with other religions.


Image by Hannah Davis. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Great Spiritual Migration: How the World’s Largest Religion is Seeking a Better Way to Be Christian

Why Did Jesus, Moses, the Buddha and Mohammed Cross the Road?: Christian Identity in a Multi-faith World

QUOTES

“It strikes me that we Christians already know how to do two things well: we know how to have a strong Christian identity that’s hostile toward people of other identities, and we know how to have a weak Christian identity that’s tolerant or benign toward people of other identities. That opens up a third option – is it possible that there could be a strong Christian identity that is benevolent toward people of other faiths? In other words, the more deeply committed I am to Christ, the more loving and respectful and hospitable I’ll be toward my neighbour who’s Muslim or Hindu or Buddhist or Atheist.”

“Opening the Bible is more like walking into a library than it is just reading a single book. One of the things that libraries do is they keep alive many voices that help us see how our understandings have developed and grown over time. I think that’s the best way for us to read the Bible.”

Carl Medearis worked as a missionary for many years in Beirut, Lebanon and as a result is recognised as an international expert in Muslim-Christian relations. Carl has some fascinating insights into cross-cultural mission from his years of working with Muslims, and he believes these principles are just as relevant in our Western context. I’ll give you a hint, it’s all about Jesus! Definitely an episode worth listening to (even if we do say so ourselves!).


Image provided by Carl Medearis. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Muslims, Christians, and Jesus Participant’s Guide: Gaining Understanding and Building Relationships

Speaking of Jesus: The Art of Not-Evangelism

QUOTES

“I’m not a fan of Christianity. I think religion’s stupid. I think Karl Marx actually was right – it drugs people; it is the ‘opiate of the masses.’ It makes people think that they’re in something that they’re not actually in. So, in that sense, Christianity has been fooling people for 2000 years. That’s not very helpful. So, I’m not a fan of it – that’s true. I’m a fan of Jesus. I follow him.”

“The gospel is a person. It’s not a thing, it’s definitely not a religion, it’s not a set of doctrines, it’s not theology, it’s not the church, it’s not me. It’s Jesus. Jesus himself.”

Alastair Gordon is a professional and accomplished artist who exhibits around the world. He’s also a follower of Jesus. Apparently following Jesus and being a professional artist is a rather tricky thing these days, so we spoke to Ally about this tension and what mission in the world of art might look like.


Image provided by Alastair Gordon. Used with permission.


QUOTES

“Today, to call yourself a sincere religious believer kind of equates you with fundamentalists, radicalists – a bunch of people that artists really, really don’t want to be associated with…for various reasons, it’s kind of problematic to be a professing Christian believer and be a contemporary artist at the same time.”

“The temptation can be that you write a song about how the world’s broken and at the last verse you slip in something about how great heaven’s gonna be – and it’s all gonna be okay in the end. And the lament’s kind of lost.”

John Polkinghorne has spent more years than we’ve been alive inhabiting the world of science and faith. He’s a theoretical physicist, theologian and Anglican priest. He’s been Knighted by the Queen and has received the coveted Templeton Prize for his exceptional contribution to affirming life’s spiritual dimension. So who better to ask a few questions about life, the universe and everything?!


Image provided by SPCK Publishing. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Science and Religion in Quest of Truth

Reason and Reality: The Relationship Between Science and Theology

QUOTES

“I often like to say that I’m two-eyed: I view the world through the eye of science and through the eye of religion. And I think with that two-eyed vision, I can see further and deeper than I could with either eye on its own.”

“I think our ultimate ground of hope and belief is of course the reality of God himself. And we learn about that, I think, through the works of creation, things that God has made – that’s what science tells us about. We also learn it through the way God has acted to reveal his nature to people from time to time – that’s what I think the Bible is. It’s not a guarantee textbook of infallible propositions. It’s a story of God’s unfolding – the divine nature and the divine purpose – to a succession of people, and we are privileged to enter into that revelation.”

Matt Russell planted Mercy Street about 15 years ago in the US. Starting from scratch it quickly grew to around a 1000, many of whom were recovering addicts. The church developed a culture of gritty authenticity and honesty. Needless to say, he’s got a very interesting story to tell and much wisodm to share!


Image provided by Matt Russell. Used with permission.


QUOTES

“Anytime you draw a line in the sand and say, ‘All the Christians on this side of the line,’ you’ll leave Jesus on the wrong side of the line all the time. Because he will not forsake the world that he loves and has given himself to for a list of ‘a prioris’ and theological presuppositions.”

“Church should be this place where these most honest discussions are happening – that we don’t have to adopt a type of language that belies our struggle but that invites us into that very place of struggle.”

Andrew Marin grew up in a conservative church, and much to his surprise developed a calling and passion to build bridges between the Church and the LGBTQ community. So he moved into a gay part of town, and spent all his time getting to know people in gay bars. So as you can imagine, there’s plenty for us to learn from the remarkable journey he’s been on.


Image provided by Andrew Marin/Wikimedia. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Love Is an Orientation: Elevating the Conversation with the Gay Community

Us versus Us

QUOTES

“Christians love to hang out with other Christians. I’m over it. Get outside your church, stop hanging out with Christians, have actual friends in the real world that don’t believe the same stuff that we do.”

“We talk too much. I’m tired of people talking about the gospel like it’s some academic, intellectualized thing. Jesus never spoke about a ‘gospel.’ He lived his life and we call what he lived and how he spoke ‘the gospel.’”

John Hayes is founder and director of the mission order InnerChange. InnerChange supports missional communities who are living incarnationally in the poorest areas of cities around the world. So brace yourself for a challenging and inspiring interview!


Image provided by Baker Publishing. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Sub-Merge: Service, Justice and Contemplation Among the World’s Poor

WEBSITE

InnerCHANGE

QUOTES

“Be content to be an ordinary bush burning with extraordinary fire. Christians get in danger when they try to be an extraordinary bush and then all [they] can give is ordinary fire.”

“We’re socialized into saying, ‘The church needs to do this and that.’ I have a lot of ideas for the church, but I don’t honestly know what the church should do…Learning is really fun, but certainty is almost a cautionary tale. I’m not as certain as I used to be about stuff.”

Inspired by a glorious summer of sport, Nomad thought we’d bring you a story that seamlessly links mission and sport. So we met up with the Amos Trust‘s Chris Rose. Chris has got an amazing story to tell of gathering together street child from around the world for a football World Cup! Hard to believe I know, but it happened! Tune in to find out more.


Image provided by Amos Trust. Used with permission.


“One of the boys in South Africa said, ‘When people see me standing by the roadside, they see me as a street boy. When they see me play football, they see me as a person like them, and they’re people like me.’”

“We have consistently failed to even vaguely grasp the good news of the gospel because we have managed to box it up with something which is negative and we’ve managed to give it in a language which is about ‘us and them,’ as opposed to ‘us.’ We’ve manage to do things about entry labels and all this stuff, which is just nonsense. I’m far more concerned what people do than what they believe, ultimately. I’m reasonable happy to let God be the one who’s concerned with what people believe.”

Mike Sares is a fairly normal, middle-aged, middle class type of guy. But he somehow managed to connect with a group of young artists and skater punks and planted and pastors the Denver based church Scum of the Earth. It’s an inspiring story of cross-cultural mission, community and new forms of church.


Image provided by Mike Sares. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Pure Scum

QUOTES

“I really think that Jesus came to Earth as a human being because he wanted to relate to us. He ate with us and he walked with us. And so, I feel like that’s what we’re supposed to do as believers – to do those kinds of things with each other.”

“I have never in my life felt more alive in Christ, more used by him, more in tune with what he wants, more encouraged to take risks for his kingdom than I have since I’ve been doing ministry on the fringe or in the margins.”

Ian Adams co-founded mayBe, a fresh expression of church in Oxford. He also works for the Church Mission Society as a Missional Community Developer. So we thought he’d be the right chap to talk about how to start new forms of church.


Image provided by Canterbury Press. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Cave, Refectory, Road: Monastic Rhythms for Contemporary Living

QUOTES

“I think it’s really important to live the story and to share it. The first thing people encounter when they meet us is the story in embodied form and we need to live it. We need, first of all, to be pilgrims ourselves – we need to be living the Jesus story ourselves.”

“I think it’s helpful to think of being missional as engaging in the flourishing and healing of all things, and that opens up all kinds of possibilities. It’s living authentically as human beings in our locality, doing our bit to make a difference for good.”

Liz Babbs is an author, speaker and evangelist and one who has been deeply influenced by celtic spirituality. So we thought we’d have a chat with Liz about Celtic spirituality and its potential as a tool for mission.


Image provided by CWR. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Celtic Treasure: Unearthing the Riches of Celtic Spirituality

QUOTES

“Values such as hospitality, the sense of celebration, honouring the saints and actually admiring the saints and looking at how they’ve walked their lives as a form of inspiration rather than just ignoring them…that’s all part of the richness of Celtic Christianity.”

“With prayer, you have to go with your personality. No one person can be like somebody else, and when you start to do that, then you’re in trouble. And when books start to tell you, ‘You should do it this way, this way and this way,’ personally, I throw them away.”

Chris Wright is an Old Testament scholar who reckons the biblical narrative only makes sense if mission is seen as its overarching theme. So we test this theory with him and ask him to explain some of the trickier Old Testament stories!


Image provided by Chris Wright. Used with permission.


BOOKS

The Mission of God: Unlocking the Bible’s Grand Narrative

QUOTES

“It’s very odd to me that some Christians who would claim to be disciples of Jesus either never read or reject or have very negative attitudes towards the scriptures of Jesus – what he had as his Bible.”

“The Bible is conscious of areas where we can’t always agree and it gives us…licence to think and freedom to question and protest and lament.”

Andrea Campanale is a Church Mission Society ‘Mission Partner’. Andrea does some really interesting work among people involved in the new spiritualties. This has caused her to reflect deeply on mission and what it means to be church, and has come to some challenging conclusions!


Image provided by Andrea Campanale. Used with permission.


WEBSITE

Sacred Space Kingston

QUOTES

“A lot of the time we try and impose what we think or what we expect people to experience rather than just creating an environment where they can experience Him for themselves.”

“It’s about how we create an authentic expression of church that reflects their faith experience and their journey to knowing God that doesn’t require them to have to be something other than what He’s made them to be.”

A couple of decades ago Tony and Felicity Dale felt called to move from the UK to the US to plant a church. As you can imagine, it’s been quite a journey (in all senses of the word) and they’ve learnt stacks about what it means to be church. One of the big lessons they’ve learnt is that we need to radically simplfy church.


Image provided by Tony and Felicity Dale. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Small is Big: Unleashing the Impact of Intentionally Small Churches

QUOTES

“Simplicity implies reproducibility. I think that’s what one’s looking for. It’s not that what goes on isn’t deep, but it is simple – simple enough that anybody can do it. If you introduce complexity, it’s going to slow down any kind of multiplication, because simple things reproduce; complex things tend to break down.”

“Jesus talked a lot about making disciples and very little about building church.”

It’s hard to measure the impact Nicky Gumbel has had on the worldwide church. He pioneered the Alpha Course as an evangelistic introduction to the Christian life. It is estimated that over 15 million people have now attended a course. So we thought it was high time we had a chat with Mr Alpha, and find out what the future of this course might be in our rapidly changing culture.


Image provided by HTB. Used with permission.


QUOTES

“To some extent, you can interpret God [and] the Holy Spirit in whatever way you want…Jesus really pins it down to an exclusivity that people find very difficult to accept in an age where toleration is almost like a god.”

“Some people are really interested in the question, ‘Is it true?’ A lot more people these days are interested in the questions, ‘Does it work?’ and ‘How does it feel? What does the church feel like?’”

Phil Togwell is part of the 24/7 Prayer movement, an internatinal, interdenominational movement of prayer, mission and justice. Over the last few years Phil’s been involved in setting up spaces in schools for children to honestly and naturally begin to connect with God. It’s an inspiring story!


Image provided by Phil Togwell. Used with permission.


WEBSITE

Prayer Spaces in Schools

QUOTES

“Jesus rarely reduces what he’s got to say to bullet points all beginning with the same letter. And yet most of our communication within church life is – it becomes a cerebral thing rather than a story that we’re invited to participate in.”

“Given the space, people pray. They express the things that are right down deep inside them – that core ache for belonging, for meaning, for healing, for hope in a really messed up, broken world.”

Pete Ward is senior lecturer in youth ministry and theological education at King’s College, London. About 10 years ago now Pete wrote Liquid Church, and it turned out to be rather influential. Pete’s theories have stuck around and shaped the views of many people interested in new forms of church. So Nomad thought they’d better find out a bit more.


Image provided by Baker Publishing. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Liquid Church

QUOTES

“There’s been a centripetal movement in church life where church as we know it seems to be the vehicle through which you do all these things like evangelism…and that’s delivered amazing life and energy in places. But at the same time, it’s kind of turned the heat down on the freedom to go and do things that aren’t ‘church.’”

“We might begin to think about church in a sort of ‘liquid mode’ as something that creates growing points where the Spirit is touching people’s lives. But we don’t necessarily – I don’t think – have to always be out looking for all the things you’d expect to see in ‘church’ in those things…we need to have confidence that the Holy Spirit is able to act outside our structures.”

Tim and Dave were in Leeds recently and so thought they’d catch up with Simon Hall of the Revive community. So tune in to hear the story of Simon’s journey into new forms of mission and Christian community (it’s a rich tapestry!), and the various manifestations of Revive.


Image provided by Simon Hall. Used with permission.


QUOTES

“Rather than there was a good way of being a Christian culturally, God could inhabit any culture; God could be glorified and worshipped and accounted in any culture.”

“I found that we don’t talk about what a whole human being is…In technical terms, we don’t have a theological anthropology. So, if we don’t know what it is we’re aiming for, then maybe it’s no surprise the sort of hodgepodge of practices we’ve got don’t get us anywhere.”

Tim’s leaving Dave at home for this episode and heading north with Hannah to Loyola Hall for a 5-day silent retreat. We know what you’re thinking, a 5-day silent retreat might not make the most engaging podcast! But Tim will be recording a daily reflection on his experiences and then at the end of the retreat will interview Ruth Holgate, the director of the centre, about the spirituality of silence.


QUOTES

“What actually appeals about Ignatian spirituality, to be honest, is not so much the silence. The silence is a great tool and it’s one that we use all the time here. But the main reason I love Ignatian spirituality is because it’s so rooted in day-to-day busy lives.”

“Ignatian spirituality is very much about being contemplative in action, so the purpose of the contemplation is in order to act in the world; in order to hear what God is saying and where God is drawing me, rather than as an end in itself.”

Chris Sunderland is involved in all manner of Jesus-inspired community stuff, but we’re particularly interested in his Earth Abbey project. Earth Abbey is a movement of people helping each other live more in tune with the earth. So dust off you wellies and prepare to get muddy, Jesus style!


Image provided by John Hunt Publishing. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Rise Up With Wings Like Eagles:  Discover Inner Strength and Wisdom to Transform Our Relationship With the Earth

QUOTES

“These problems that are bearing down on the earth are not just climate change, not just big oil; they’re not just erosion of soils or the loss of the rainforest, or whatever – it’s all of them, and it’s to do with how we think about our relationship with the earth. And that’s a spiritual issue.”

“I think that the big hope of the Bible was the hope for well-being in this idea of ‘shalom’ – this idea of peace that embraced the whole creation.”

Mark Powley founded Breathe, a Christian network that encourages and resources simpler living. Mark is all about simple living and resisting the lure of our consumer culture (or as Breathe puts it, ‘less stuff, more life’), so we talk to Mark about how we can go about a Consumer Detox. Prepare to be challenged!


Image provided by St Hild College. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Consumer Detox: Less Stuff, More Life

QUOTES

“Consumer culture isolates and fragments us into individual consuming units. It means we’re less faithful to one another; we’re less linked with institutions, with communities.”

“If we wondered more at the things we do have, we will want less of the things we don’t have. And I would hope that makes us more attractive as people – that we just have this sense of inquisitiveness, wonder, thankfulness.”

New Testament scholar extraordinaire, Tom Wright (how does he write so many books?!) is back on the show. This time Tom’s helping us get our heads round the connection between academics and the local church and what exactly our Christian hope is (we might go to heaven when we die, but we’re certainly not going to stay there!).


Image provided by University of St Andrews. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Surprised by Hope

New Testament for Everyone

QUOTES

“When God made the world, He made humans to reflect His image into the world…it’s an angled mirror with God’s wise stewardship and ordering reflected through humans into the world.”

“Are we actually to believe that the God who made all this and who enabled humans to make and nurture all this will at the last say, ‘Oh well, that was a nice trivial little game. Now we’re just going to be pure spirits and we’re not going to have any of that stuff’?”

AUDIO

N T Wright Page

Nomad is back (I know, you didn’t even notice we’d gone)! The old team has stood down, but new boy Dave Ward (along with founding Nomad Podcaster, Tim Nash) has bravely stepped into the fray! This episode is an introduction to Dave and his journey from youth worker to farrier and from traditional church to new forms of mission and church.


Image by Dave Fry. Used with permission.


BOOKS

Night Vision: Mission Adventures in Club Culture and the Nightlife

QUOTES

“I have a real thing about wanting people to experience God, and out of that experience…to explore who God is.”

“If we can take people on mission with us, then…that is what church is; God is a missional God and we just join in with that.”

After two-and-a-half years and 36 shows, the stresses and strains of massive global success (if only!) have taken their toll, and the original Nomad team have decided to call it a day. So tune in for some final reflections on their online and offline journey.


Images used with permission.

But fear not, rumour has it that Nomad Podcast (as you know it, but with one or two interesting adjustments) will reappear on the digital horizon in the blink of an eye. So look out for the all new Nomad (is that a gas forge I can hear…)

Pete Greig is one of the founders of the hugely influential 24/7 Prayer movement, an international, interdenominational movement of prayer, mission and justice. He’s also Directer of Prayer for Holy Trinity, Brompton (you know, the church where Alpha came from). We talk to Pete about the phenomenal success of this innovative prayer movement, and how it relates to mission and new forms of church.


Image provided by Baker Publishing. Used with permission.

Want to know more? Check out Pete’s story in Red Moon Rising.

Mike Pilavachi is the co-founder and leader of the hugely influential evangelical Soul Survivor charity based in Watford, London, he’s also the pastor of the Soul Survivor Watford church, and leader of the even more hugely influential Soul Survivor festival. We chat with Mike about mission, community and the future of the church in relation to young people.


Image provided by Soul Survivor. Used with permission.

Want to know more? Mikes written some books.

Steve Hollinghurst works for the Church Army’s Research Unit as their ‘Researcher in Evangelism to Post-Christian Culture’ and has extensive experience in working with people involved in the new spiritualities. Steve chats to us about some of the issues he raises in his new book Mission-Shaped Evangelism: The Gospel in Contemporary Culture.


Image provided by Steve Hollinghurst. Used with permission.

Cathy Ross is lecturer in contextual theology and pioneer leadership and is the General Secretary for the International Association for Mission Studies. So Cathy seemed like a pretty good person to talk to about how women have been overlooked in mission, both overseas and at home. She explores how this came about and what can be done about it. She also recommends some resources to help us dig deeper into this important issue.


Image provided by Cathy Ross. Used with permission.

Neil Cole is the founder and executive director of Church Multiplication Associates, which has helped start many hundreds of churches in thirty-five states of America and in over thirty other nations. We talk to Neil about why we need to multiply churches and how we go about this. We then review his book Organic Church: Growing Faith Where Life Happens.


Image provided by Neil Cole. Used with permission.

For more, check out Neil’s blog and many excellent books.

Scott Boren, among other things, has spent the last 20 years working as a small group consultant. Scott works with churches to help them develop effective community through small groups that are on a mission. We like mission, and we like small churches, so we thought we’d better have a chat with Scott.


Image provided by Baker Publishing. Used with permission.

Make sure you check out Scott’s book on the subject, Missional Small Groups.

Ruth Valerio manages A Rocha’s Living Lightly project, which encourages us to live greener and simpler lives. Ruth talks to us about the importance of environmental concern in Christian living and mission, and offers some resources to help us get to grips with these issues.


Image provided by Ruth Valerio. Used with permission.

For more, check out Ruth’s blog and books.

Kester Brewin is one of the pioneers of the alternative worship scene in the UK and one of the founding members of the Vaux community. His book The Complex Christ was hailed as one of the most important texts on the emerging church movement. We talk to Kester about what the emerging church can learn from pirates, and the importance of churches being temporary places.


Image provided by Kester Brewin. Used with permission.

For more, have a look at Kester’s insightful and hugely challenging blog and books.

Ian Mobsby is an Anglican priest who is a leading voice in the UK emerging church and New Monasticism scene. He’s also one of the founding members of the Moot community in London. We chat with Ian about what church and mission might look like in a post-secular culture.


Image by Jonny Baker. Used with permission.

Check out A New Monastic Handbook for more

Nigel Pimlott is author of Youth Work After Christendom, and is deputy CEO for Frontier Youth Trust. We chat to Nigel about youth work and how it relates to mission and the emerging church. After this, we’ll discuss as a group how it applies to us, and review Nigel’s book.


Image provided by Nigel Pimlott. Used with permission.

Want more? Check out In Defence of Youth Work.

Sean Stillman has been working among biker communities and other ‘fringe’ groups, and is founder of the alternative church community Zach’s Place in Swansea, South Wales. Sean chats about the emergence of this community, his experiences to date and the lessons he’s learnt along the way.


Image provided by Sean Stillman. Used with permission.

Stuart Murray is chair of the Anabaptist Network, and is a trainer and consultant in mission and church planting. So we chat to him about what we can learn from the Anabaptists about how to go about church and mission in our post-Christendom culture.


Image provided by Stuart Murray. Used with permission.

Definitely give Stuart’s The Naked Anabaptist and Church After Christendom a read.

Brian McLaren is pastor, author, speaker, activist and one of the leading figures in the emerging church movement. Brian tells us about some of the questions he’s been wrestling with as he’s journeyed towards new forms of Christian faith and church.


Image by Hannah Davis. Used with permission.

For more, read all Brian’s books, all of them!

Jonny Baker is one of the UK’s leading figures in the alternative worship and emerging church scene. We talk to Jonny about mission and new forms of worship, and then ponder how this might apply to us. We also recommend some resources to help you enter the world of alternative worship.


Image provided by Jonny Baker. Used with permission.

Make sure you check out Jonny’s books.

We thought it was about time we headed down to Lambeth Palace to have a chat with the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams. Rowan said that if nothing else he wants his time as Archbishop to be remembered for his commitment to developing Fresh Expressions of church. So we thought we’d ask him why this is, and what his personal experience of new forms of church has been.


Image provided by Magdalene College. Used with permission.

If you need more Rowan, then make sure you read every one of his books.

Steve Timmis is co-founder of The Crowded House network of churches, and co-director of the Porterbrook Network, an initiative that trains church planters. We chat with Steve about the theology and practice of their Gospel Communities.


Image provided by SBTS. Used with permission.

Check out Steve’s book Total Church, it’s really rather good.

Steve Chalke is one of the UK’s most influential and controversial Christians. There’s not enough space here to list everything he gets up to, but it’s surely enough to say that the Queen awarded him the title of Most Excellent Order of the British Empire for his ‘services to social inclusion’! He chats with us about the cross and the centrality of mission in the life of the church.


Image provided by Oasis UK. Used with permission.

If you want to know more about Steve, check out his ridiculously impressive organisation Oasis, and his many books.

Alan Hirsch is an influential missiologist, author and leader in the Missional Church movement. We chat with him about the need for mission and church to be shaped by the person of Jesus. There’s also the usual chat from us and some suggested resources for those wanting to take things a bit further.


Image provided by Baker Publishing. Used with permission.

Want more? Give Alan and Michael Frost’s book ReJesus a read,

Frank Viola is one of the leading figures in the Organic Church movement. Frank is an advocate for a return to New Testament models of church, which he believes means keeping it small, informal, highly participatory and Spirit led.


Image provided by Frank Viola. Used with permission.

For more, check out Frank’s blog and his many interesting books.

Mark Stibbe, former Vicar of St Andrew’s, Chorleywood, joins us to talk about his time at this large charismatic Anglican Church near London. He explains the journey he led the Church on towards a radical restructuring of the church to produce a more mission-shaped structure and practise.


Image provided by Malcolm Down Publishing. Used with permission.

Just in case you’re wondering who these podcasters are, we introduce you to Michael. Michael chats with us about his Christian journey to date (after he’s finished telling us about his numerous nicknames, that is).


Image used with permission.

Michael, Nick and Lora then reflect on their second local community event – a street barbeque for their neighbours.

Shane Claiborne is a leading figure in the New Monasticism movement and a founding member of The Simple Way community. Oh, and he wrote the influential book, The Irresistible Revolution. Shane tells us how Jesus inspired him to move to a deprived area of Philadelphia and share his life with the poor and marginalised.


Image by Ms. Tsar Fedorsky. Used with permission.

In a new feature, we’ll also be sharing some resources that have helped us dig deeper into these issues.

Tony Campolo is a sociologist, pastor, author, speaker and former spiritual advisor to US president Bill Clinton. Tony is helping us explore the relationship between evangelism and social action. Together with your emails and the usual discussion and reflections it’s another packed Nomad Podcast.


Image provided by Tony Campolo. Used with permission.

If you want more Tony, check out his podcast and his many many books.

Mike Frost is an internationally recognised missiologist, and one of the leading voices in the Missional Church movemement. He’s written a number of influential books and co-founded the Forge International Mission Training Network. So he seemed like the perfect person to talk to about the place mission should have in the life of the church.


Image provided by Baker Publishing. Used with permission.

Make sure you read as many of Mike’s books as you can. And if you have the slightest interest in mission church, then do read The Shaping of Things to Come.

Nomad Extra is a shorter, complimentary programme that delves into the latest news from our journey. On the first of our Nomad Extra podcasts we get to learn a bit about who one of the podcast’s hosts, Tim, is and how he came to be exploring Community and Mission in this way. We also bring you up-to-date with the latest goings on in our burgeoning community.


Image by Dave Fry. Used with permission.

This month we are joined by Andy Hawthorne founder of The Message Trust, an influential Christian mission organisation based in Manchester. Andy helps is explore what it means to be a missional community in an urban context.

Want more? Andy’s written books about such things.


Image by Hannah Owens. Used with permission.

We also chat to Sarah Cotton about her life and ministry in community in Sheffield.

Teaching Pastor at Woodland Hills Community Church and influential author, Greg Boyd, joins us on the show to share his insights and experience of Christian community.

Want more of Greg? Check out his blog at ReKnew, his sermons at Woodland Hills Church, and his many books (you won’t regret it!).


Image provided by ReKnew. Used with permission.

We also spend some time with Andrew Jackson who lives in community with refugees in Middlesborough.

The inaugural Nomad podcast kicks things off with a chat with arguably the most influential New Testament scholar of our generation, Tom Wright (I know, we don’t know how we got him either!). Tom’s tells us everything we need to know about the Bible and community.

Image provided by University of St Andrews. Used with permission.

If you need more from Tom Wright, and you’ve got the rest of your life free, then why not read all Tom’s books. They’re really rather good!